What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

four I'd hope that a private room would be available in special circumstances.

I'd campaign for proper care post birth for all women, including overnight.

My baby went straight to SCBU, and basically in spite of a PPH I was left to get on with it - no one seemed to give a toss about me and I was dragging myself to SCBU every 3 hours day and night to express milk for ds with no support. They wouldn't even wake me up to help me express, take the milk round, or even make sure I had a chance to eat.

There was barely room for a bed and baby cot in each bed space, so I have no idea where partners would have slept. Having dh there overnight might have helped, but I hated having people around my bed in the day as I sat on the bed expressing, or crying about my baby not being there (and I got plenty of funny looks about it), so overnight would have been even worse.

So, proper care, no overnight visitors apart from private rooms please.

I wouldn't have wanted my ex with me and I was in a private room - I liked having time just me and the baby (3 long labours and 2 sections btw so i was immobile and shattered). I enjoyed the peace and quiet with just me and baby.

I wouldn't want strangers wandering the ward at night - you get that on children's wards and it's a pitta

Its not practical, is it? I cant see how it would work.

I would have loved it, obviously. Especially after my first abby was born after a long traumatic labour and emergency section. By the time I was out of recovery and on to the ward, visiting hours were over. We were given an hours grace but then DH was asked to leave. That first night was very very lonely and hard. I was in shock, immobile and basically left alone with a newborn to care for. It felt unnatural.

I haven't read the whole thread but my initial thoughts are:

1. On the one hand, Its a sad fact that a lot of domestic violence starts or escalates in pregnancy. The time alone on a maternity ward provides a respite and a possible opportunity to raise concerns

1. On the other hand, I would have liked DH to be with me. I had a caesarean at very short notice (think- came in for a scan, came out with a baby).

Obviously I wasn't able to eat anything before the operation and I missed tea time on the ward as I was in recovery. As a result I didn't get anything to eat for 24 hours. I also had a haemorrhage and lost quite a lot of blood, plus I had some quite heavy painkillers which made me feel really out of it and shitty. I didn't get any sleep that night and felt quite distressed by morning, which I put down to low blood sugar from not eating and losing blood. I could really have done with a cup of tea or a piece of toast but was told I had to wait until breakfast. I've since found out that this is bollocks and they should have got me something. I personally could have really used DH there to advocate for me, as I wasn't in much of a state to stand up for myself. (literally, due to spinal block!)

If you have your own private room it could be an option.

No to males out with visiting hours on shared wards for the reasons above.

No.
The facilities are inadequate for the mothers as it is. There is simply no capacity for double the number of people to be staying overnight. My post-natal ward was absolute bedlam, exacerbated by the ill-mannered and insensitive family members who visited many of the patients.

Privacy had to be fought for rather than being automatic, and dignity was in short supply sometimes. If that state of affairs had continued all night rather than-if not ending, at least improving-after visiting hours I just don't know how I would have coped.

Ante- and postnatal care is in trouble, especially in London, for a number of reasons including lack of capacity, but particularly inadequate funding. THIS IS NOT THE THING TO BE SPENDING MONEY ON. Even worse would be allowing it without spending any extra money on it.

I am also concerned that if partners can stay, staffing levels will be reduced yet further because they will expect partners to become overnight primary carers-indeed, that is pretty much why it is being suggested. But women need expert care (especially after Caesarians or other post-partum surgery), not family members making the best of it in overnight crisis management.

Put it this way, is there any other post-surgical situation in which it would be suggested the best way to look after patients at night would be to make untrained family members do it?

Women who don't need extra care can be discharged and given extra midwife care at home. The rest of us need proper nursing care, in a calm, organised and above all, safe clinical setting.

No for the myriad of reasons stated below. A campaign for better post natal support of women (especially overnight) would be much better. Many of the reasons women feel the need for partners is to assist them - a increase in Health care assistants overnight to assist those who are struggling post birth (CS, complications drips etc etc) would be far more appropriate.

Yy to Thurlow's post. Not what I would like mumsnet to spend time campaigning for.

They barely have enough room for the women in my local hospitals, never mind partners sleeping over.

is there any other post-surgical situation in which it would be suggested the best way to look after patients at night would be to make untrained family members do it?

YY. Exactly it.

Most of the women who say they would have prefered to have their OH with them were post-cs, and it was that which caused the problems.

There are always a few situations where partners have been sent home where mother and/or baby are ill, which is shocking, but imo does need to be a separate issue from this (and I say that as someone whose baby was in NICU)

I think everyone has said what I would want- yes if a private room, no on a many bed ward. In the hospital I stayed in, you could ask for a private room and pay for one, but you couldn't definitely get one, it depended what emergencies they had. I did have a private room one time and not another.

I would have loved my husband there for my first night with my dd1- after two nights of labour, a third night without sleep would have sent me over the edge, but there was no room, the curtains were thin, other babies cried all night, I can't see him being there if we couldn't talk or communicate would have been any better at all. It nearly tip me over the edge though, horrendous time, I try not to think about it.

I spent 2 nights on a mixed ward when I had my wisdom teeth out. I had only stayed on gynae (all female, surprisingly) wards before.

The toilets and bathrooms were shared. There were not enough. On the morning of my op, people were waiting at the two bathrooms for their pre-op bath. One was monopolised for half an hour by a very inconsiderate man (other people waited until after the pre-op rush) who announced 'the early bird gets the worm! as he waltzed off, having left the wash basin dirty and full of his shavings.

After my op, I was embarrassed to find my almost bare bottom (string knickers) had been on display to the world. I went to the nearest loo in my post GA haze to find someone had emptied his shaver into it, so I had to clean it to use it, not having the strength to walk to the other end of the ward.

I thought they were getting rid of mixed wards.

Without proper facilities to cope with them, having men on the ward will be no different to being on a mixed ward, except the women are in a weak and vulnerable state, and the men aren't.

Most people would be off home as soon as possible and before they were ready.

I cannot see it working for the majority of women.

I work on a ward with a mixture of rooms ranging from single en suite rooms to 6 bedded bays.

We have about seven feet for a bed, often a chair, locker, table, sometimes a commode, and a hoist if necessary (will be on post natal for women who have spinals and need urgent moving etc).

Having visitors on the ward means very little can be done - or if it does need done (i.e. using the commode, bed pan, checking pads/bleeding, washing, emptying catheters etc) we have to decant the visitors to another room. Even then, the patient's privacy is impinged on by the hoards of other visitors.

We have to put up with sometimes very 'demanding' visitors and those who are downright dangerous and who put us and our patients at risk.

If the patient is seriously ill I would fully support unlimited visiting for a partner or parent (and if there were exceptional circumstances) but for the majority of women on post natal wards I'd be completely opposed to partners being allowed to remain overnight.

I have had vulval/vaginal surgeries (with stitches and after effects not unlike that of natural childbirth), both times had a spinal and needed to remain on the ward for extended periods. I remember vividly the discomfort of having nurses continually check my bits and having to be washed, have my bed and pad changed. I knew the other patients could hear, I was only behind a curtain! I cannot imagine anything worse than having to deal with something like that with even more strangers knowing what was going on.

What I would support is hiring more auxiliary nurses for general care - and designating some for mums care, and some for baby's thus freeing up the midwifery staff for more medicalised stuff.

Absolutely no way to this unless the women and their partners are moved to a private room well out of the way.

Concentrate energy on campaigning for better care, not on forcing others to have to put up with unnecessary people in the ward.

I cannot say how upset I'd have been if, after a 37 hour labour, massive blood loss and surgery I also had to put up with a fussing partner at the night.

Urgh, just no. Having to trudge past 3 / 4 blokes with my blood filled catheter hanging out and farting with every step because my muscles had literally been shredded? No way.

This is a difficult one. If there were private rooms, yes. If the men were told specifically by the midwives how to help, were properly involved in the aftercare, absolutely.

I ended up with a theatre delivery and was put in a side recovery ward. Unbeknownst to either of us (no-one thought it would be good to tell us), DPs are actually allowed to stay all night in the recovery room.

As it was, DP was falling asleep and not being very helpful (very grumpy, would huff when I asked him to pass me the drink at the end of the bed) so when he said 'can I go home' I said yes.

From comments I later received, it was implied to me that he was supposed to be the primary carer for me and new baby. But no-one had told us that. If they had, he would have stepped up and helped.

So I can see the benefits, especially post-surgical birth when the mum is invariably unable to walk etc. But it would have to be in a private area away from other vulnerable women.

I haven't given this enough thought yet to say yay or nay but reading the responses I am incredibly saddened by the overall view of men. Yes some may be tossers but so are some women. Reading this back gives a very poor opinion of men who, mostly are pretty decent, the same as most people are.

I felt horribly vulnerable at visiting time with everyone milling able, my wee draining into a bag beside the bed for all and sundry to see, slightly see-through hospital gown, really intimate conversations carrying on behind a curtain. Thankfully everyone in my bay was quite pleasant and not too noisy, but I couldn't have imagined having the men there all night. Even in private rooms what's to stop someone accidentally wandering into your room in the night?

Campaign for better staffing on post-natal wards would be more appropriate.

Same as other posters have said. My DP there with me? Yes please. Everyone else's? No way Jose.

My personal solution would be to speed up discharging/neo-natal checks for those who are willing and able to go straight home from delivery. I had to spend part of the night on a post-natal ward without my other half (poss. because I had her in the early hours of the morning) and it really wasn't medically necessary or what I wanted.

My dh is lovely and would be a help to anyone on ward if asked. He's an experienced father who might be of use.

how the other 5 women on the ward would see it

Jeeze, could the 6ft 3 man who is taking up half the room opposite me not be there? Every time the nurse opens and leaves the curtain over we're all exposed to him. I really want to walk to the toilet but the curtains are open again and I feel like all my internal organs are about to fall out. I'll just sit here until he leaves. Oh wait now he is going to the toilet. I probably won't pee myself right?

I would have loved for DP to be allowed to stay with me. I had an epidural and when i was moved to the ward DP had to leave straightaway as it was 10pm, I understand it was hospitial rules.

However, because of the epidural I couldnt move. DD was was in a towel, she needed to be changed and fed, i couldnt even get to her crib thing, it was too far out of my reach. I was in a hospitail smock, I was bleeding heavily and couldnt even get to my suitcase to get a nightie out or maternity pads. And I couldnt call the midwife as the button was out of reach. I cried. The only other person in the room was Polish and couldnt understand me as I asked her to call the midwife for me.

After about 20 mins the feeling in one leg came back and I had to hop around to get my baby and things.

I wish he could have stayed even an hour to help me as I couldnt move.

I would have loved to have had DH with me from earlier in the day - 10.30am was a crap time to start visiting time. This was compounded when DS arrived during the swine flu epidemic so the hospital limited to 2 visitors.

I was in hospital for a week and a half, a week prebirth and 4 days afterwards. I would have loved to have had DH with me more. Would I have liked the arse who took his preschool kids to visit their mum on the pre-natal ward and left them with her whilst he went off for an hour delaying the scan she was supposed to go for because she couldn't leave the kids? Not so much. The girl opposite me on that ward was 19 and having her 2nd baby, and in the process of splitting up with the father on the phone whilst she was stuck on an ante-natal ward. Not sure I'd have been thrilled if he'd turned up to spend the night with his baby either.

How were you planning on getting the necessary level of privacy for this great idea? Our hospital is bursting at the seams with only mothers in beds. There is no room for dads to stay as well. DH is 6"3 so isn't going to fit into a nursing chair to sleep any time soon. By all means advocate for smaller maternity units, which happen to allows dads to stay in them, and better medical care in them so mothers with medical conditions don't get stuck in the big hospital in the centre of town, but just saying "let dads spend the 1st night in hospital" is pointless.

shelagh, 1 out of 4 women has been sexually assaulted. That's enough reason to not want strange men around when you are feeling vulnerable. And rather than be saddened for the poor men who aren't twats.. be saddened for the poor women who have formed that opinion.

It's a no from me. I would have loved to have MY DH with me, but would have hated to 5 other men in my ward of 6. Imagine the snoring, the flushing of loos and the queue for the shower.

Unless private, en suite rooms are an option, this really shouldn't be encouraged.

I may be in the minority, but during my 4 days on the postnatal ward I valued the times between visiting hours to shower and generally shuffle around despite being catheterised and bleeding. I would have been embarrassed to emerge from behind my curtain if I'd been in a room ful of men.

No - it is an horrific and frightening idea.
Unless every woman has her own en-suite room.

No, for the reasons already stated. I've just spent 2 nights in hospital with hyperemesis, and on the second day I was transferred to the ante natal side (from gynae) where partners have pretty much unrestricted visiting due to women being induced etc.

Unfortunately a couple of the men I saw seemed to have no consideration for the other women in the bay. One couple arrived and the man proceeded to put his wife's bedside TV on full blast, not using the headphones despite poorly patients in there clearly trying to sleep. I had to wait to use the patient only toilets next to my bay or wander round finding another whilst in PJs and pushing a drip because a man kept using them (he was eventually told not to when spotted by the nurse) and one man kept coming in and out of the bay at about 1 am, right past my bed, talking loudly, messing round with his phone. It made me feel uncomfortable and vulnerable.