What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

victrix Because you'd get some idiot in a superman suit scaling the hospital ward shouting about discrimination. That's why.

Also some posters (and midwives) have said it's just extra bodies that is the problem.

What we need is more midwives actually so they can actually do their jobs the way they want to.

My experience at Westminster hospital was absolutely horrid. The key to end appalling treatment of women is not to bring their husbands / partners in to help, but in providing better maternity care. Maybe it is just because women font matter much, it is a sign of this inherent sexual discrimination that labouring and post natal women are treated so inhumanly.

I was induced, spent over 36 hours labouring. Baby born around 4 am. Ventouse and forceps. Epidurals turned me ont a piece of immobile meat. Lost a lot of blood. Due t cjd risk dh refused me transfusion. Spent the night in hug dependancy unit. 7 am after not having eaten or had avsrink for days, I woke up blood soaked, and was dragged out bed to shower. Nurse left me alone in a hot shower, and somebody found me fainted on the floor.

Sure they needed to get on with stripping my bed, but could they not let me have a drink? Some weak sugary tea with milk perhaps first? Something to eat? Somebody to look out for me in the shower?

Has there been a count-up to see what the "yes/no" split is on this thread?

Victrix- it's perfectly normal not to bathe newborn babies

I was wondering if the way forward was to have semi trained women (bit like the next step down from aux nurses) in who could do things like fill water, help women into loos (but not stay) and pass babies to women for feeding.
I suspect though it would be voluntary or. Dry badly paid and then the government would abuse the help by giving them too much responsibility or reducing the amount of mw.

I don't see that many people have a particular issue with men being on the ward.

It's just anybody. 6 extra bodies taking up space all the time when there is barely room in a cubicle for a bed and a cot?

I was v happy to have my husband at the birth, I can't say he was overly helpful but he was there, mopping my brow and trying not to look worried. Once on to the ward I was happy when it was time for everyone to go home, I was shattered and after my second birth I really wanted him to go home to make sure our first daughter was ok. I had a cs with my first one and a 'normal' birth with my second, I needed blood transfusions after both labours. Despite this I was more than happy to be left on the ward to be looked after the HCP's. The thought of having the wards full of people all the time, day and night fills me with dread. Visiting times are lovely, but only because you know they have a definite beginning and end.

My husband came into his own when I got home after both labours, he was fantastic and has continued to be so ever since. However that doesn't mean I would have wanted him sitting by my bed all night while I was feeding our baby or trying to sleep.

I don't think this campaign will work, there are too many ifs and buts. Also too many things that go wrong. Some partners would stay for the wrong reasons. To control and manipulate or to bully. In an ideal world it may work but that's not what we have. Maternity services have to work within the confines of what the NHS can provide and I don't see it providing family rooms so couples can stay together any time soon.

Just checking I read that correctly but did someone a couple of pages back seriously come out with the 'ohhhh the poor menz and their rights to the baby instantly not staying disadvantages them as a parent' argument?

I hated the idea of being on my own on a post natal ward with lots of strangers, busy overworked midwives/ nurses and no one there to look after me. It was the main reason I went for a natural birth in the birth centre and I was lucky that it worked out for me. Main perk was that we then got our own room as a family for the night with a double bed designed so that DH could stay with me & baby. For me it was perfect and if everyone could have that type of experience then I think that would be fantastic. So in a similar place to other posters- yes to partners/ DH being allowed to stay if there is a private space for them.. resource might be the issue here...

It's another definite 'no' from me. I think most of reasons have been covered already - lack of space, lack of privacy, lack of facilities, noise, intrusion at a very vulnerable time.

I'd hate the thought of having to discuss personal medical issues with a doctor/nurse and worrying about someone's husband overhearing.

Another no thanks vote.

"Think about how you would feel if this was your idea...."

Well, a crap idea can not be accepted because someone might be offended or hurt when it is pointed out how stupid it is .

TheWomanTheyCallJayne - I'm a little that the only thing you could find to comment on about Victrix post about her appalling treatment where her newborn wasn't fed for 12 hours was that washing babies isn't necessarily normal.

My own experience was that I too was completely ignored on the ward after the birth. Luckily DD1 and I were more or less okay, just absolutely exhausted after a 36 hour labour with no sleep. And since I didn't get onto the ward until 7am, just as the day was starting, the noise meant I couldn't get to sleep no matter how tired I was.

But, when we tried to get me discharged later in the day (a process that took 6 hours because they couldn't find a paediatrician to check DD1), at the end of the whole process I was told that they wanted to keep me in "for observation" because my waters had broken more than 24 hours before the birth.

We just laughed at them, I said I hadn't been "observed" once in the past 12 hours since DD1 was born, so I was bloody well going home where I could get some sleep.

I had a home birth for DD2.

thewomantheycallJayne. Many hospitals already have this. They will definitely have health care support workers but where I work we also have CRB checked volunteers on the ward to answer buzzers and help make beds, fill water jugs. They're not allowed to bath babies or give bf advice though (yet).

Nor do they stay overnight.

Viva- I honestly thought I had. I wrote three paragraphs so I don't know how I managed to delete the rest.
I also wrote a paragraph about how my local hospital was on the news for not even having room for labouring mothers recently and how they were moved to 'nearby' hospitals.
My apologies Victrix. I don't know where the went rest

The trial is a ridiculous reason. Some women won't want to say it is a crap idea in case they have to give chapter and verse why. They just want to go home! Maybe that particular week all the partners were mature, caring men but next week it could be full of abusive thoughtless twats.

All fancy words, patronising comments and a stupid idea.

Think if anything BirthRight need to be doing the opposite campaign.

One that is aimed at convincing hospitals considering letting partners stay overnight not to. There's a lot of hospitals which are bringing this in.

"
As our 'real life' canvassing of opinions has been so positive we are keen to continue to undertake a broader survey of women and midwives, but rest assured if the response is negative we will devote our attention to other areas that support our mission to improve women's experiences of pregnancy, birth and new motherhood by promoting respect for human rights."

IF??

I'm impressed at all the constructive views on this thread. It's a refreshing change to read so many 'I would have liked my DP there but understand that other women may not want my DP there' rather than the tiresome 'I want it and therefore must have it' attitude. for everyone

When I came out of hospital as my dh had gone home after the 40+ hour labour and slept for 12 uninterrupted hours he was on top form to look after me and dd1 during the day when we were in and after we got home.

I had slept for an hour or two in between my dd and all the other babies crying all night and staff in and out.

He would have been knackered and useless after being awake for days of labour and then a couple of rubbish nights sleep. I would rather one of us was well rested and alert (especially when he was driving us home).

I would rather be cared for (and have my baby cared for) by someone who knew what they were doing - my dh is a fab bloke and would have done his best but how is he supposed to know how I should get out of bed to save ripping my c section wound or if baby's poo is supposed to be that colour.

Then when i was in with dd2 i would rather he had been at home in the middle of the night to comfort her when dd1 aged 2 woke up looking for mummy.

Not quite sure who would have had her anyway - my friend had her for the day I had dd2 which was fun for her but dd would not have been very happy staying there for the 5 nights I was in. Having both of us away in hospital for this long would have really affected her and I don't know how well she would have bonded with her sister - that resentment would have taken time to overcome.

So do we expand it then to include your other children under say 3 or 5 or 8 ?

The whole thing is a terrible idea - staff the wards properly.

Next it's going to be - having a hip replacement - well bring in your friend and he can look after you. Saves having nurses at all...

If you are in hospital for more than a couple of hours after childbirth then yes you are ill. You need looked after by trained staff. You have stitches, pain, catheters etc - same as if you had your appendix out.

@Itsfab

"Think about how you would feel if this was your idea...."

Well, a crap idea can not be accepted because someone might be offended or hurt when it is pointed out how stupid it is .

We're not suggesting that the idea should be accepted, or that MNers can't say they think it's stupid.

We're just making a small plea for people not to question the personal motives of the women behind this small organisation. People can have misguided ideas (which MNers clearly think this is) without having bad motivations.

Threads like these are why I stick with Mumsnet despite the trolling. Such compassion, empathy and insight from so many coupled with a robust analysis of the "evidence" provided.

Thank you :)

Yet they are still carrying on thinking it will be approved

"if the response is negative..."

How much more cases of no do they need to accept it is negative?

@Itsfab

Yet they are still carrying on thinking it will be approved

"if the response is negative..."

How much more cases of no do they need to accept it is negative?

Their plans are to consult beyond Mumsnet, Itsfab. Pretty sure they have very fully taken on board that the MN response is very much a 'no', but we're not the only people they're talking to.

Rowan,
Agree that people should aim to be constructive but... if you're a campaigning organisation seeking to influence policy (which this organisation is) then it needs to be accepted that people will be highly critical if you come up with dangerous ideas which you are seeking to influence the NHS with. I don't have the influence that they have or seek to have - this is the only way I can emphasis what an anti-women / unsafe proposal this is. (and am horrified to hear that it appears to be being rolled out in some hospitals)

The danger is of course that it doesn't matter how small or well intentioned a campaign is if it gets enough publicity and is very vocal then suddenly it is assumed they represent the majority or at least a large portion of the community. Things might get put into place that lots of people do not actually want on the back of a well intentioned ( but wholly misguided) emotive campaign representing a minority of people.