What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

My DH would have been fine, but I would have absolutely hated to have had other people's DH/DP wandering around. Private room maybe yes, but on a shared ward it would be absolute hell.

Yay let the older siblings stay too!
Make it a bit of a family mini break

Nomdemere

"But if it's the fear of 'strange men' being around then that suggests our society is pretty screwed up. Either because of the actions of men or attitudes held against them. "

I really dislike this. Other wards are single sex with no overnight visitors and we don't call that screwed up. We have single sex toilets, single sex changing rooms (even when the changing is done in cubicles) etc and that's for the comfort of both sexes. Birthright are seeking an exception to the common practice, not the other way round.

Great posts, Bumble and Needs.

No and no and no; I was exhausted after the birth and simply wanted peace and quiet; too excited to sleep first time; second time kept awake by other mothers all talking (4 a.m). I would not want strange men walking around in what is ostensibly my bedroom. The nursing staff were kind and competent, and always there when I needed them.

I don't think I made myself clear with my comment about 'fear of strange men'. I meant that if one of the reasons that people don't want men on the ward is because they may pose some kind of risk to the women then that IS screwed up. Screwed up that there are men out there who would use the birth of their child to abuse their DP or even other women. Something is really, really wrong in our society. II'm not expressing myself very well and I don't have any solution but it's fucked up and worries me.

Speaking as a HCP who was a victim of a serious sexual assault by a service user on a ward during a night shift. MH ward though, not post-natal.

A big fat no from me unless it is in private rooms. Post cs I had a horrid night but nurses were great - feeding issues, Velcro baby etc - I was embarrassed at keeping all the other mums awake as I had to keep ringing for nurse as with catheter still attached I couldn't reach him. Dh would have helped but in fairness nurses were really nice about it

Thanks for clarifying MrsB.

I'm also with those who would not have wanted men I didn't know wandering around overnight. I got up to wee in the night after having DS and, as the ward was volcanically hot, was going to go in my pants and vest top. Then I heard a low murmur from the nex bay and realised someone's male partner was still on the ward. I had to attempt to hold in a wee with a second degree tear and screwed up pelvic floor while I put on pj bottoms then shuffle past to the loos hoping desperately no one saw.

When I stayed in last week with early labour signs (all well), all the dads seemed lovely but there were women with blood on their gowns and catheters in, attemting to breastfeed etc who were clearly uncomfortable with the men around and kept their curtains shut all th time.

no from me for reasons previously stated by others. Wanting to snuggle up with partner straight after birth is one good reason to go for home birth if you wish to

When my DTs were born by CS a month ago we had a private room (not in the UK) and I don't know how I would have managed without DH staying in the room with us for the four night stay. At first he had to do all the picking up/changing of the babies as I was tied to the bed with a catheter- and even by day 2 I couldn't really move well anyway so needed him all the time. There was no nursery (I think this is becoming the norm in the UK also) so the babies were with us 24/7 from the moment they were born. This was lovely but did mean I needed an able-bodied person there most of the time. The maternity unit had one nurse for every 5 patients so it wasn't feasible to ring for help all the time. It must be really difficult for twin mums in the UK if they can't have someone stay over to help them.

However the prospect of sharing a space with a bunch of other women's partners through the night isn't a pleasant one. Wards are awful. When I lived in France and tried to explain the concept of wards to friends, they thought the concept was positively medieval.

OK, I didn't think I'd come back to this thread, but I have and I'm glad, because I've crystallised a few of my thoughts and would like to give my opinion rather than just relate my trauma.

AskBasil: "Well no. The NHS has got to stop treating us like shit, that's the bottom line really isn't it."

Yes. That's the bottom line. I wanted my husband there because I was being ignored, treated like an inconvenience, given inadequate or no help, tutted at for requiring help and then for fainting, told to stop being silly, had my baby removed from my side.

I had just had a C-section (a hugely traumatic event for me as I have a phobia of medical 'tools') and was immobilised, in massive pain and struggling to care for my baby, let alone for myself. I needed water, and peace and privacy and not an overheated sauna with hellish alarms and bright lights when I'd been labouring for three days and nights. A private room, or a cool, quiet cubicle on a small ward, with a kind HCP who came when I rang would have provided for my needs. Even a trained volunteer would have provided for most of them.

I wanted my husband there because I wanted him to protect me, advocate for me, look after me - wouldn't it be better if me, and women like me, didn't feel like that in the first place? Change the focus of your campaign, BirthRights. You would do so so much more good.

Stuffofawesome - just as an aside, some of us would very much want a homebirth for that reason and for many more besides, doesn't necessarily mean we will get to experience that, sadly. So whilst I understand your point, try not to be so dismissive.

Great (albeit horrific and very sad) post, eatscakesfornoreason

I strongly support partners being able to stay overnight. When dd1 was born dp had to leave very shortly after the birth. By the morning I was the 'expert' in looking after dd1, and that was a dynamic which coloured our early months.

I think allowing partners to stay the night would be a comparatively easy change that would reduce the inherent sexism in our society.

I had a fairly hideous birth and could have really done with my DH - or anyone to be frank - to help.

However, the DH of the woman next to me kept walking around her bed and bashing into DD's crib. I told him he was waking her when I'd only just managed to get her to sleep and asked could he please avoid my bed area. He replied, "babies cry. Get used to it."

We were past visiting hours at that point so I told the midwifed who asked him to leave. Cue much shouting. No way would I have wanted him there.

Like many others, I wouldn't actually want any man I didn't know there. I can imagine even someone with the best intentions smiling over while I was trying to feed would have felt threatening and weird at that time.

Agree that the campaign should be for more postnatal professional support. I was transferred to a MW led birthig unto for night two and it was heaven. They ran me a bath on arrival, and after that, sat me and DH down at a table for a meal and helped to shush DD while we ate. They were amazing.

attheendoftheday have you read the thread? If one night away from a baby has that much of an impact on the 'dynamics' of a relationship with the child then there are bigger issues at play IMO! I don't think you become an 'expert' overnight either.

Even if that was the case does your right to having someone with you reallly override everyone elses right to privacy, 'quiet' time and for a small amount of women time to talk about problems/abuse?

"the NHS is not equipped to run a vetting service to only let the nice ones in."

Absolutely. And the problem is, once you've let the awful ones in, they dominate the space. Everyone else tip-toes round them because after all, we're only here for another 4 days, it's not worth rocking the boat, we can see the staff are overworked and don't want to cause them more trouble, we should be concentrating on our baby, etc. etc. So the ones who aren't nice, end up owning the space and everyone else's needs are an also-ran.

There is no acknowledgement of the real genuine seriousness of this problem. Vague waffly "zero tolerance" stuff, doesn't deal with the entitled swaggerers who aren't actually violent or aggressive to staff, but who impose themselves and change the atmosphere and balance of the space.

Great posts eatscake, bumble and Needs.

How about a campaign to ensure that all women get an en suite private room after birth? That would be a campaign I would support and would bring us in line with other countries' healthcare systems. This is twaddle - it just means the NHS will trim the skeleton staff even further.

Being on a ward with strangers and a shared loo is hellish enough without adding a load of other people into the mix. Plus, the whole thing would end rather abruptly once some drunken lummox assaults someone (which, depressingly, is bound to happen eventually).

Bloody crap idea!

re the men to be CRB checked?Are the women

Well the ones that aren't laying out bleeding themselves are yes.

For fucks sake.

How about allowing a female supporter to stay? Someone who was there to help but no threat to any other new mothers on the ward. I would personally have loved that - I felt very isolated and so very very ill after birth on an understaffed ward. I was at the far end of a ward and nobody came to check on me all night. In fact I had lost so much blood that I was semi conscious. My baby did not get looked at or picked up or fed or changed (or even washed) for 12 hours after birth. It took a visiting relative the next morning to notice and get help. Like I said, my DD had not even been washed post birth and was still covered in blood and gunk 12 hours after birth. This was a top central London teaching hospital.

A lot of women find their PTSD triggered by child birth. Lets leave them alone over night with strange men.. so the men don't get their little fucking feelings hurt.

Would much prefer a campaign to get men to stick around and take care of the kids the following 18 years rather than the first night.

victrix - how would you decide which female supporters are helpful and which are a threat? Unfortunately, women can be aggressive and intimidating too. As well as noisy, thoughtless and entitled.