What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

Just looking at your report and some things jump out at me:

A snapshot audit was undertaken on 12th May 2010 by the acting Matron to gauge reaction from both women and their partners

Problems with evaluations of this type:

1. They are too small-scale to get a representative picture of patient experience.
2. The evaluation was not independent.
3. The evaluation was not conducted by a researcher - how did they select their sample? How big was the sample? How do we know the participants were happy to talk to the matron and divulge sensitive information to them? Were the parents interviewed separately or together? Is it appropriate to approach parents for such research at such a time?

Twenty-­three mothers and nineteen partners were audited... Thirty-­six responses were received from Fathers... Thirty-­one responses were received from mothers who chose to have an overnight supporter from this group... Sixteen responses were received from mothers who chose not to have an overnight supporter..

Problems:

1. This is a very small sample size with which to base a decision on.

On?going audit of postnatal women indicates that they require less pain relief and assistance/reassurance from midwifery staff when their partners stay

Problems:

1. Where are the figures and data to support these statements?
2. Over what time period do these figures cover?
3. How was assistance/reassurance from midwifery staff measured? Having less assistance/reassurance might not necessarily be a positive thing... Less pain relief might not be a positive thing if the mother still remains in pain.

Please do not waste time and effort by trying to roll out policies that have not been rigorously evaluated by independent researchers.

Loads of people smoke in the bathrooms on the ward. Having more people on the ward increases the likelihood of this.

Then the ones who do go out the ward for a cigarette will need to be buzzed out the ward and buzzed back in on return. Again taking up staff time. There's no receptionist on a night shift so it will be the midwife answering the door.

@ADishBestEatenCold

"I do hope that mnhq tell birthright our thoughts and not just decline to be involved"

Has there been any indication from MNHQ that they are going to decline to be involved? (and, hopefully tell Birthrights our thoughts)

Yes! We are not going to be involved and Birthrights are reading the thread.

I have witnessed visitors/family members turfing the patient out of bed and getting into it themselves

A consultant's face on a ward round was a picture when confronted with the patient sat on a crappy plastic chair bedside while her partner snored his head off in the bed

I'm glad Rowan

Good points from VivaLeBeaver and ChestyNut re the NHS dignity campaign / single sex accommodation,

Hmmm - reading the link above about the trial, the scarily small initial survey (23 mothers and 19 partners) followed by a follow up set of surveys of approximately 50 - 60 people??? has resulted in the hospital rolling out the service (idly wonders what percentage of women giving birth in this hospital that represents?)

The article makes reference to 'risk assessments'. More idle wondering about how anyone can safely assess what risk an adult may pose in a maternity unit when a hospital knows NOTHING ABOUT THEM AT ALL!!

I really do wonder just how scientific and representative this survey was? I realise these things are done with the best of intentions and lots of enthusiasm but I can't see where the safety of women and newborns has been addressed. I gave birth many years ago in a heavy duty inner London maternity unit and was very intimidated by two seriously scary drugged up partners (I was stuck there for 5 days) - the idea that these men could have had free access to the Unit overnight is truly frightening.

Thank you for coming back to us, RowanMumsnet

The thought of this policy becoming reality actually really worries me. I'm already stressed at the thought of possibly having to go back on the ante natal ward anytime soon, I spent half the night sitting up in bed on high alert due to the man that kept walking past the end of my bed in the early hours.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of condition, like anyone who hasn't jsut given birth who is staying overnight, needs to clean the loo, sweep the floors, empty the bed pans etc.

Just to remind them that they're not actually on holiday there.

Except actually, the NHS would adopt the policy for every ward. If you come in here to visit a patient, you've got to do a bit of work, because we've sacked the people we used to pay to do it.

I withdraw that suggestion, I hadn't thought it through.

mathanxiety I also had to scrub a bath with Vim before I could get the aftermath of birth safely washed off after DC1 was born, critically ill, because of 'guests' on the ward. Washing actually wasn't my priority but killing time while I was excluded from the NICU was, so maybe cleaning the bath was as good a distraction as any. I really do feel quite strongly that this is an area when men and indeed anyone other than the mother really do have to back off. At the point of birth and in the immediate aftermath I just can't see that anyone has rights or needs except for the mum and the child. Any decent man should accept that.

Since the beginning of time child birth had been a female domain, where women have come together. You don't see anywhere in history that women have sought the company of random men for birthing, and with good reason.

I too was shocked that such a small survey was used to roll out such a big trial.
I didnt know that that was how things worked.

Rowan it's very good to know that views on MN count.

Setting - this shouldn't be how things work - in many fields this would be called 'professional dangerousness'.

Just because mumsnet has said that they will not back it, doesnt mean that it isnt going to happen though, does it?

RowanMNHQ I'd be interested how the single sex accommodation issue was solved on the pilot ward?

Well it is a good job we are not having any more children, I would have to save up and go private!

This would be horrific. My ex-midwife mother has stories about vile, vile abusive men on the ward that would make your hair stand right on end - and that was when they had no right at all to be there. Birthright are making huge assumptions that every man is a naice, middle class gent who will change nappies and be useful. Sadly, a lot of men aren't.

Post-natal wards are for women and their babies. Have a home birth, if having your partner there is so important.

Doncaster and Bassetlaw NHS is where I had my babies, and the horrific experience of the other woman's aggressive partner.

I still feel it's a bad idea. With or without my DH or any of my other visitors present, I felt threatened by that man.

I think I'd have gone mental at somebodies o/h ligging about on the ward.
They are private, not for any tom, dick or harry
Why does everything have to improve for the worse.

settingsitting it shouldn't be that small scale studies dictate big changes but all too often it does happen if it fits the agenda

This sounds like a bad idea for the reasons indicated on page 1 (and no doubt thereafter!) I haven't read it all, so my points may have already been made.

It was a bit scary when dp left just a couple of hours after ds was born. But it meant that he could at least go home and get some decent sleep so one of us was sort of sensible the next day! Think I ran on adrenaline for the first few days and ever since actually

Additionally I got to change ds first nappy on my own! If dp had been there I might have wimped out and got him to do it. I felt an amazing sense of achievement