What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

I agree with other comments about a campaign for better care in the hours immediately after giving birth. The problem is not so much that the partner is not allowed to stay but more the fact that post natal care can be dire. It certainly was in my case - both times in a very busy, under staffed hospital in Sussex. No one to show you how or when to change a nappy, no one to show you how or when to breast feed and in my case no one around to clear up all my sick. I'm not sure I would want strange men seeing me in this very vulnerable state but what we must campaign for is more staff on hospital wards in the hours (usually early hours) after giving birth. Back in the 1970s women were in hospital for a number of days and were shown how to feed, change, bath a newborn. Now we are expected to do all this ourselves plus get ourselves to the loo when we are feeling exhausted, fragile, in pain, traumatised - etc. If I have a third I'm either going private or having a home birth - as long as I don't get induced again - the thought of being on my own in hospital is hideous.

In my head I wanted DH there. In reality, he went home and got 4-5 hours sleep which was more than either of us had for months. There was no room for partners, even though by usual standards the ward was very quiet. I felt a bit lonely but it was also nice having time just me and my baby (the midwife suggested co-sleeping which was just as well as DS suckled for 4 hours straight that night!). So I guess the answer is no unless there are double beds in private rooms, which we have locally at a midwife-led centre.

What are the 'positive results' that they have seen? Are they actually doing a proper independent evaluation with tangible outcome measures?

What outcome measures are you are looking for?

Also, how are you measuring vulnerability to DV? Not to be rude, but we were asked by our HCP at one of our meetings whether we were experiencing DV. He turned to me (in front of DH) and said "was I experiencing DV? Then he turned to DH (in front of me) and said "was he experiencing DV? I suggested that perhaps this wasn't the best way to ask these sensitive questions, and he said he had to ask everyone so now he'd done it

Another 'NO' here. The last thing I'd have wanted when stumbling to the bathroom haemorrhaging blood would have been an audience of blokes.

I think birthright, that the issue is that you are focusing on the difference having a partner present made to that one woman - and not the impact that stranger had on all the other people on the ward.

Please make sure you address this (and not by saying that women who are uncomfortable can asked to be moved somewhere else - that solution breaks my heart. They won't. They'll just suffer.)

No way to let partners on the wards at night.

What a crazy idea- it's bad enough with a small baby wailing, imagine if the dp wanted his Blankie too.

If women had their own private room and the new mother was recovered completely from the borth and not in pain, so that she didn't need more room in the bed to turn over etc etc.

Omg... It's so much at the wrong end of the stick I have to laugh.

Birthrights would be better employed making sure new mothers are supplied with enough knowledgable midwives and lactation consultants, and also treated with some degree of civility by the other hospital staff.

Campaign for rights for new mothers, not for partners' rights.

This strikes me as a badly thought out, senseless waste of time.

Are they going to suggest that spouses get to sleep in hospital beds with the patient for other operations? Get real gals!!

I understand the point being made on behalf of women in domestically violent/abusive relationships and how the visiting hour limitations give them respite and a chance to raise concerns, but there must be plenty of these women who give birth in the daytime (complication free) and are discharged within visiting hours without having a moment to themselves. I'm not suggesting that DH/Ps should be allowed to stay overnight on wards, but do think that it can't be argued for this reason as a main basis (as it is for some comments) I believe to aid this arguement, there should actually be a mandatory 5 minute post labour private chat with every mother so that she has a chance to speak in privacy. I know this probably would appear to all those who aren't in a problem situation to feel like they are being interrogated etc and may make the majority of good fathers/partners feel uncomfortable, but surely the supportive fathers/partners would wholly support their partner having this time alone anyway. I know that even though I am perfectly happy with my partner (and have had the past experience of a long nasty and incredibly abusive relationship) that I would still maybe like that time to speak about other concerns embarrassing to discuss in front of him ie wondering about how long stitches may be present, how to cope with post labour piles, breastfeeding etc. Talking to my partner, he also supports this system concept.
Sorry I don't actually have an answer to the main debate, but I am still reading through the thread and weighing the cases for and against before I form my decision/opinion.

If women want quiet time with their new baby and don't want to be going through embarrassing physical stuff with their DP present then fair enough. Also the opportunity to be able to identify potentially abused or vulnerable women is also important.

But if it's the fear of 'strange men' being around then that suggests our society is pretty screwed up. Either because of the actions of men or attitudes held against them.

It's very worrying.

For me. My Ex was abusive. I was far more relaxed without him there. It gave me and my son time to bond we were in for four days) It was bad enough he was in delivery suite.

I experienced this six weeks ago-just
I was given a flyer explaining that the hospital was trying this out for three months and most dads in the bay stayed -dh couldn't as we've three other children- the dads helped the mums and it may be coincidence but I got less grumpy post-CS MW help this time and didn't have to wait as long for this....the dads caused me no problems I'm sorry there's no way to solve this problem

Not interested in what a study on a very small group of women has to say.

The NHS is on its knees. Let's start with the basics before dealing with the luxuries and yes, having a partner with you overnight is a luxury. It is not a necessity. Midwives are a necessity and we are short of those.

With DS1, I was very stitched up and anaemic from PPH. I had a catheter in bed and there were HCAs who got DS out of the cot for me to feed, changed his nappy, took me for a bath etc. They were excellent.

Sounds like a way to reduce primary care to new mums, and save money!

Badly thought out.

I had the god awful bad luck to be on a ward (of five women and five babies, and two hairy blokes) and it took all my will power not to go over to the blokes snoring loudly away and stove their heads in with the water carafes. One of them kept getting phone calls. It was shit.

Unfortunately its a resounding NO from me.

I was in a bed next to a woman who spoke very little English, during the day and night she had her husband staying with her who interpreted everything. During the day she had her husband and about 3 other foreign men all in her curtained area all day.

I was really really uncomfortable with this, I was in pain, bleeding, having been stitched up was very uncomfortable and the last thing I wanted was to shimmy to the toilet past them only to have to clean the piss off it before I went myself!

The noise was unbelievable during the day and at night they kept talking. There is enough noise with the babies all waking each up without TV's, phones and conversations between partners and the woman who has had the baby x 4 or x 6 (in some cases)

We were also on a new maternity ward, purpose built and they still designed it to have 3 x 4 bed bays.

Needless to say I left as soon as I physically could.

MrsB in the UK 2 women a week are killed by a partner or ex.

more statistics here from women's aid

I can't express a person opinion on postnatal wards, never been an inpatient, never likely to be.

As an ex-HCP--HELL, no.
In the main current wards are already crowded, they were built when patients needing various drips pumps and monitors would have not been on a general ward.

Once you have friends/relations stay on wards it is amazing how quickly they (a) started to act like patients, (b) push the boundaries.

As for zero tolerance, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

I say this as a HCP who in my job was both physically and sexually assaulted in my job, and was was threatened was I wanted to report to the police (none of the offenders were confused or had any mental deficit at the time of the attacks)

I can not see any hospital at this time supporting either a HCP or a other patient making a complaint.

When I first read the OP I thought ooh yes that it would be lovely to have DP's support afterwards, especially if it's a difficult birth but then thinking about it more, I would really hate having lots of strange men around. TBH I'm an anxious sort anyway so even sharing a ward with other women who have also just given birth would be stressful for me but having men there as well would make it more stressful so another no thank you (unless private room) from me.

The second night of my ds' life was the worst of my life. I was struggling to bfeed, hadn't slept for 40 hours since the birth and noone was prepared to give me any help, not even to hold the baby while I slept for an hour. Eventually an angel of a nurse took him even though she wasn't meant to and I could finally lie down (I was about to drop the baby or fall asleep standing up) I would have given anything to have someone there with me. .. didn't have to be my dh, could have been my mum. There was a large dayroom down the hall where they could have stayed if they weren't allowed on the ward but it would have made a world of difference.

Tried to read the survey and the results.
I may be reading it wrongly, but it seems to me that only about 1/3 of the patients including their partners responded to the questionaire [manily favourably]
Perhaps the other 2/3s were not positive but didnt like to say?

As I say, I may be reading the figures wrongly. I got confused tbh.

If, when having my dc, it was standard procedure to have partners on the ward 24hrs, I would, no doubt, have had my dh there. But would every other woman on the ward have wanted my dh there? Prob not.

I'm always mindful of the experience I had with ds1 - yes I had a traumatic birth, felt I had been hit by a truck, etc etc. But the young woman in the bed opposite me was a single mum. She had no partner, and was clearly feeling very, very delicate. I do wonder how would this have made her feel, to have a load of men who were strangers to her around the ward all the time.

The way it was told in a fairly thread - was a woman waking up on the ward and realising that a patient's husband was asleep a mere 6 inches from her - with the 'visitors chair' pushing into her curtain. That is too close, too much.

Far better to improve management, staffing and training of staff, and to prioritise sensitive staff responsiveness to patients.

Don't pass the buck to people who don't know what they're doing, may end up snoring all night, may possibly mess up the toilets or occupy them when patients need them, and will definitely make patients feel very uncomfortable. I include women along with men here.

I absolutely do not want males staying on postnatal ward. its intrusive and compromises females

fuck no

What a fucking stupid idea.

Sodding birthright.
What a misplaced campaign.

Yep.

Also and beyond this scope, as a parent of a disabled child who is frequently admitted to the childrens ward. If this campaign got the govt support and was enforced it would be horrendous.

On a childrens ward (where we are) visitors are allowed 8am -8pm. 1 parent at night. During this time you have people coming and going, noise from TV's, phones, conversations, machines going off, Dr and nurses trying to talk to patients and parents. People having a good old knees up (even though patient ill!). The noise is horrendous.

Factor in the fact that your child might not have slept most of night or have high needs that are not taken into account by staff or just as bad you don't sleep all night. You are knackered by the next day AND unable to rest because of above. And the noise doesn't always stop at 8, I have been on a ward where I have had to call nurse and get them to stop 2 women chatting across the bay at 11pm as my child couldn't sleep.

My point (deviated) is nursing in this area is cut back by the powers that be because the parent is there and doing the caring and in some case administering the medicine and keeping account of the evolving/ deteriorating illness of their child.

Now imagine that this is a maternity/ post natal ward!

Math absolutely. I will NEVER forget my upset when I had DD2 and had just heard she had a heart murmur and needed to be scanned for a hole in the heart.

I was So upset and worried. It was evening and I drew the curtains on my bed to try to get some peace and suddenly they were whipped open by a student nurse who said "Can I listen to the baby's heart please? I'm training to recognise murmurs!"

I said no. She was all but I was so upset and worried and she just barged in too soon after I'd heard.