What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

No no no no no - not unless each woman/couple get their own room.

But realistically they are inconvenient overnight on a ward. It may help you but it could make the night a hell of a lot worse for others on the ward.

There is plenty of time for them to parent when you are home.

I am in two minds about this. When I had my first baby, DH had to leave late at night and I felt very alone. I'd barely held a baby before, let alone changed a nappy, and I found breastfeeding difficult at first. It would have been great to have had him there for moral support. I was also very jealous of him being able to go home and sleep!

On the other hand, DH's snoring never mind several other partners could prove quite a disturbance and there would be more people using the loo. In an ideal world everyone would be able to have a private room, or maybe there could be some private couples rooms allocated on a first-come first-served basis. I was lucky with my second child, as I had the postnatal ward (three beds) to myself.

Its a difficult one. I can see why it could be helpful, difficult birth, needing support/help with baby etc.
BUT after being on postnatal ward with ds1 when for some reason dh was sent away at 8pm but the lady next to me managed to have her dh there till 215 am. He took extra chairs in there to lie on, pushed them back sohe was in 'my' cubicle and the curtains separating them were pushed right up to my bed.
I'd had a caesarean and was very aware that I had a lot of gas but was so embarrassed and tried to hold it all in (v painful!) when I couldn't anymore they were giggling if I farted and the next day at visiting kept sniggering and making fart noises when I left the cubicle ( at the time I was mortified).
Same when I had ds2 the lady in next room had her dh there very late, nurses asked him to leave he said he couldn't as baby was crying and his wife was asleep, he kept walking into my room by mistake when I was hand expressing for ds who was in Schu and I felt really self conscious and vulnerable.

*scbu

What a fucking stupid idea.

I think the rest has been said...

I would have liked to have my Dh with me for the first night. I was exhausted after labour and on my third sleepless night when my DD first revealed her nocturnal nature. It's difficult caring for a new baby in that state - hooked up to a drip/catheter etc - all by yourself, surrounded by strangers. It was a nightmare and I really was at breaking point. As others have said, post-natal care is often very poor due to understaffing. But equally, as others have said I don't see how they could safe-guard the privacy of vulnerable women if this goes ahead, and private rooms for each couple seems unlikely.

I am not in favour for all the reasons above. Plus when having DC2, DH had to go home at night to care for DC1. Had I have been the only woman without a partner there I would have felt even more alone and vulnerable than I already did.

Just taking a look at who Birthrights are - the people on their board do look rather ... um ... high-powered. Apart from the lone midwife, have any of them ever actually been on an NHS post-natal ward, I wonder?

I absolutely do not want males staying on postnatal ward.its intrusive and compromises females

I think it is a bad idea. Wards are already overcrowded and hospitals struggle to have enough beds for patients nevermind partners. Childbirth is exhausting and for some it is traumatic, the last thing these mums need is to be surrounded by even more people when they are recovering. With so many extra people staying on a ward, there would be minimum privacy and it would be noisier so hard to get any rest.

The hospital here has all private rooms apart from the ward for women who have just had a c section (and they get moved to a private room as soon as possible).Each room has its own shower and toilet. Dads CAN stay overnight in the rooms if they want but not many do, I also volunteer at the hospital and I would say 80 -90% of women are alone when I go round in the evening.

fuck no

Awful idea. It's a no from me, for the reasons others have stated.

To be fair, the Birthrights people are all women and possibly all mothers - certainly some of them are. I just think that this campaign is misguided and I'm hoping that they will actually have some respect for the opinion of mothers on here and possibly do a bit more research about how to solve the problem of women being neglected and in some cases treated downright abusively when they've had babies.

Solving the problem by getting lay people in to help, isn't really addressing the basic issue of women being treated like shit is it - it just says "OK, we accept that the NHS will always treat women like shit when they have babies, so we've thought of a way to allevaiate that - we'll get their partners/ mums/ neighbours to come in and make up for the fact that the NHS treats them like shit." Well no. The NHS has got to stop treating us like shit, that's the bottom line really isn't it.

I totally agree Basil, I think they have good intentions. Hopefully they are reading this and understand why so many women aren't keen.

After the traumatic birth of dd1 I would have MASSIVELY appreciated dh staying with me - that first night was so awful I was literally counting down the hours and minutes til he could come back.

But sadly in reality I don't see how this is practical in wards and as others have said, I wouldn't have wanted to be seen by any other men.

Maybe a female friend/mum could stay? But as others have said, maybe more support/staffing would be most appropriate.

I'd be very strongly against. I agree that it's an awful idea.

A definite no for me.

Aside for any safety issues already mentioned IMO there is a different atmosphere on the labour ward once the men have all gone home. I always remember when I was in after DC1, the woman in the bed opposite woke up in the morning, got out of bed and had a flood of blood, it was completely a non issue and she just got on with it. We were all woman going through the same thing...I should imagine it would have been mortifying for her if my DH had been floating about.

There is no way I'd particularly want DH there either, in the past he has gone home for a sleep and a shower, both of which he has really needed.

Even a female friend would be an extra body on the ward though

It has made me question the legal advice that mumsnet linked to in the opening line of the mumsnet op.

Anyone know for sure if it is accurate?

I wouldn't like other people's partners around. Bad enough with all the other women who came and left in hours while I was in for days after a c/section.

Female friends can be just as chatty and disruptive. I stayed on an antenatal ward. They ran out of space on the PN ward, so a very young new mum, her baby and her very young best friend were put in our bay.
They were up until 3am phoning people chatting and watching thriller movies on TV. The baby was sleeping.

Evening all

Arf at this being the best way to keep Bounty reps at bay

Just to be clear: it's obvious from this that the vast majority are clearly opposed, so MNHQ won't be signing up if this campaign goes ahead.

Birthrights have given us a bit more detail now and we'll post that up in a moment, just for your info.

Can we just say, though, that - much as this is clearly though to be misguided by almost all of you - Birthrights have done good stuff on the rights of women to choice, good information, and good care in childbirth. We have no reason at all to think their intentions are anything other than honourable, and we'd be grateful if posters could hold back a bit on implying that they are motivated by a desire to cut costs or champion the rights of men at all costs. That's just not our experience of them, and we're sure they've heard your objections very loudly and very clearly. Please remember that there are real women behind this (quite small) organisation, and imagine how you'd feel if this thread was about your idea (and it is still an idea at the moment).

We'll post up their response in a mo.

Response from Birthrights:

'Thanks for sharing your views so frankly. We knew we could rely on Mumsnetters to tell us what they think! We are of course disappointed not to have had a more positive response and felt we should clarify a few things and explain the current context and the thinking behind the campaign as, whether or not you agree with us, the motivation here is very much to respond the needs of vulnerable postnatal women.

The idea for the campaign was born out of a presentation at our Dignity in Childbirth Forum last year, where Doncaster and Bassetlaw NHS trust successfully trialled allowing partners to stay overnight and, following the success of the trial, rolled this out across their service. Since the roll-out the number of women choosing to have partners stay overnight has steadily increased, feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, staff have welcomed it and there are future plans to incorporate more facilities for partners if/when there is a redesign. You can read more about this on p.54 of our 'Projects and Perspectives' document: www.birthrights.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Birthrights-Projects-and-Perspectives.pdf

Birthrights spends a lot of time talking to women about negative experiences in their maternity care as well as promoting and discussing initiatives with positive intentions such as the one in Doncaster. Lots of the women we have spoken to have mentioned feeling lonely, unsupported, unable to reach a glass of water or pick up their babies and unable to attract the attention of staff in time to meet their needs. There has also been lots of press over the past year about problems in UK postnatal care that very much reflects the conversations we've been having with individuals.

We want all women to have as positive pregnancy, birth and postnatal journeys as possible so with the Doncaster project in mind and the voices of the women we work with ringing in our ears we began to do some thinking. We discovered that a number of units are bringing in a partners policy like Doncaster's with positive results. We felt these policies were responding to a real need and could be a relatively easy way for over-stretched units to offer a more welcoming environment to postnatal mothers. We saw that in units where the schemes have been trialled there's been a really swift and tangible positive outcome on new families without necessitating much financial outlay making it much easier to implement. This is when we decided to focus our energies on researching this idea and seeing whether we could campaign to roll out these policies more broadly.

Phase one of our campaign is research and we have always planned to survey women as widely as possible to see what their feelings are about the pros and cons of the campaign. One of the ways we were keen for Mumsnet to support us was by canvassing you for your views as we are really keen to know that we are focusing on something useful. Your response gives us much to reflect on. As our 'real life' canvassing of opinions has been so positive we are keen to continue to undertake a broader survey of women and midwives, but rest assured if the response is negative we will devote our attention to other areas that support our mission to improve women's experiences of pregnancy, birth and new motherhood by promoting respect for human rights.'