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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Challenge the Proposed CSA changes

177 replies

ShirleyKnot · 01/12/2011 16:08

Could we talk about having some sort of campaign to bring awareness (and hopefully some action) for the many thousands of lone parents who are receiving pitifully small sums of money, or nothing at all, from the NRP?

I have been reading about the proposed changes here and I'm HORRIFIED!

I was on a thread recently here where many posters shared their sad tales about feckless NRP being asked to pay pennies per day for their children - and still not receiving even these pathetic amounts.

It seems that the CSA is a fairly toothless beast.

On a personal level, I have recently claimed for my two children (14 and 11) after nearly 10 years of no financial (or any other!) support.

My X refused to answer any of the CSA letters requesting salary information. He is self employed and therefore impossible for the CSA to get access to his income (although they do ask the Inland Revenue for previous accounts - in my X's case he hasn't submitted returns). Eventually an order was placed on him for £40.00 / week. Should the Inland Revenue not now be investigating why he hasn't paid any tax in the last few years? Surely this should be automatic?

He has not paid. I contacted the CSA today to ask what was happening with my case and was informed that they can't start court proceedings until the arrears mount up to £500.00 or 13 weeks worth of non payment.

The point of this is that, I'm used to it! I scrape by on my wages and we're fine - but what if we weren't?

What if I needed that £40.00 to feed our children?

I'm hoping that others will come onto this thread with ideas of what form this campaign should take - and also to maybe confirm the vague feeling I have that lone parents are going to be asked to contribute towards the CSA's work via their maintenance payments. (I may have this wrong)

Let's try and change this shall we? Or at least make a stand?

OP posts:
OliviaMumsnet · 02/12/2011 22:48

Hello lovely Shirley and lovely the rest of you
So, hope you don't mind but we are going to move this thread to "In the News" for the time being, until the folk at HQ who look after campaigns have the time to look into everything properly (which is def not going to happen over a weekend, for a start, I'm afraid.)
Shirley, I will email you too
Thanks
M Towers

ShirleyKnot · 02/12/2011 22:49

Uh!

WHAT?

OP posts:
KateMiddIeton · 02/12/2011 22:54

Olivia seriously? These are some of the current threads in this topic.

A campaign to increase awareness of breastmilk donation?
I'd like to suggest a campaign to regulate charities use of 'Chuggers'.
Campaign against sexist baby and toddler products
CAFCASS
Venture photography

KateMiddIeton · 02/12/2011 22:54

I think the point is it is NOT in the news and it should be.

ShirleyKnot · 02/12/2011 22:58

I have to tell you that I am REALLY fucking upset at this.

CRYING UPSET.

I've worked so hard to build awareness across the boards and this is such a relevant campaign.

PLEASE don't move it to the News

OP posts:
EleanorRathbone · 02/12/2011 23:06

The reason the myth ever existed in the first place, was because when men were told they were actually going to be forced to take responsibility for the children they'd helped produce, the men who ran the media went fucking mad. The idea that they might not be able to afford a fourth holiday abroad because they would have to fund their kids' clothes and shoes instead, was so outrageous to them that they ran a campaign about it and the myths became part of folklore.

OliviaMumsnet · 02/12/2011 23:08

@ShirleyKnot

I have to tell you that I am REALLY fucking upset at this.

CRYING UPSET.

I've worked so hard to build awareness across the boards and this is such a relevant campaign.

PLEASE don't move it to the News

Yikes.
Sorry Shirley we really don't want anyone upset over this.
We will leave this thread here for the moment - and keep you posted from our end as and when.
Sorry we can't look into it sooner.

EleanorRathbone · 02/12/2011 23:12

Oh and the government backed down because there's no way that men could be offended for the sake of the welfare of children.

Notice how quick they all were to listen to F4J. (who btw were a bunch of abusers with a record of domestic violence as long as your arm - one of the founders had even been to prison for it and that's incredible, most DV merchants get a slap on the wrist for it, so he must have been extraordinarily violent and stupid for having been actually punished.) The men who run media and the government are not remotely interested in the welfare of women and children, that's why they prioritise stories about poor menz not being allowed to see their children (in the main, because they keep beating them up every time they do and even then, most courts award sole contact, which is why so many family annihalators are given the chance to murder their children in order to spite their exes) over the story of men not paying maintenance, which is far more common (3/5 remember).

EleanorRathbone · 02/12/2011 23:12

Sorry cross posted with Olivia MN

Meglet · 02/12/2011 23:29

I had all thisat the start of the year. I think MM announced it in Jan. Several letter have been exchanged and I'm sorry to say the government / DWP are full of shit would are incapable of answering questions and have just trotted out the whole 'parents shoud be resposible for their children' nonsense. Not possible with abusive men.

Anyway, AFAIK Lord Mackay (I think) challenged the plans this week, so someone in the government has some common sense Smile.

It might even be part of the fucking awful welfare reform bill. I was reading some of the HOL committe transcripts in the week and swear it was mentioned at the same time.

If they ask my XP for more money we'll be in deep shit as he'll kick off again.

Fucking awful, awful idea that is designed to hurt LP's and their children. My X was asked to leave mediation, I very much doubt he'd agree to pay without the CSA.

shirley I'm as livid as you about the whole thing.

And I'll trot out my line again. The government are trying to kill off single parents. (Semi-serious).

Meglet · 02/12/2011 23:32

Oh heavens, how ranty am I Blush. In my defence, my car wiper blades have just broke so I have car dealer and kids party logistics to sort out in the morning.

MmeLindor. · 02/12/2011 23:46

Just posting to mark my place and to express support. It is almost 1am here and I am off to bed but want to find this thread later.

Shirley
Please don't get upset. I know that this is hard for you, cause it is such a personal issue but you are doing fucking FANTASTIC to have raised so much awareness in just one day.

Olivia / MNHQ
I think that there needs to be a clarity on this. Is the MN Campaign topic for anyone to post on or just for official MN campaigns. If the latter, then it is only fair that all non-sanctioned threads are moved to a more appropriate area.

Or perhaps we could have a MN Campaign and a separate Charities and Activism Topic?

It even has marzipan fruit inside it.

Sillyoldelf · 02/12/2011 23:50

Are you guys all also in agreement that the CSA should challenge mothers who leave their children ? It's ok to moan about non paying fathers but as it stands the CSA only deals with absent fathers, not absent mothers.
I also think it's fairly crap that in their assessment , the CSA do not take into consideration the finances of the mother and whether she is co habiting .
I know a very well off mother who squeezes her ex partner of all his earnings ( he was actually paying over the odds in terms of child maintainence but she in her greediness wanted a bit more to fund a new 4x4) . She has a new partner, new baby etc etc - takes so much money off her ex partner that she doesn't need to contribute financially to her 2 first borns .
It can work both ways !

TheMouseRanUpTheClock · 02/12/2011 23:53

If the father you mention is earning enough to pay minimum legal child maintenance to fund a 4x4, he sounds like he earns a lot of money and his child is getting what they are entitled to, I am sure the child's mother uses other funds to fund the lifestyle of the child and the child gets use of the car.

RealityIsADistantMemory · 02/12/2011 23:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheMouseRanUpTheClock · 02/12/2011 23:56

Interesting choice of words too, "she squeezes" and "in greediness", it is not like that in reality, the father is paying the legal minimum that the child is entitled to by law!

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 02/12/2011 23:57

MNHQ - I'm really pleased you are leaving this here.

Firefly I have signed your petition.

Lord Mackay was Lord Chancellor under Major and also Thatcher I think, so that is a good start in terms of the government.

I am too tired right now, but I will e-mail my MP tomorrow, she is a junior minister and seems very good.

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 03/12/2011 00:05

sillyoldelf - the mother's position with regard to co-habiting/re-marriage or whatever shouldn't matter a jot. We are talking about child support here, not spousal maintenance.

I thought the CSA would take money off any NRP but I am happy to be corrected if that really isn't the case.

The reality is though, that the vast majority of NRPs are fathers (rightly or wrongly), and they very often leave a wife behind who has compromised her own earning power to bring up the children.

The reason this campaign is so important, is that there but for the grace of God goes every single SAHM, or part-time WOHM, or full-time WOHM whose career is stagnating because they are bearing the brunt of the childcare and day-to-day logistics of rearing children.

PMTvsPMA · 03/12/2011 00:07

Im so very tired now but just found this thread and read the first page.

I have been fecked about for years by NRP using all the tricks not to pay and dealing with nightmare that is the CSA.

When things are rolling, can someone inbox me where I need to sign.

Thanks

KateMiddIeton · 03/12/2011 00:25

I would think it a point of law that the sex of the nrp is irrelevant. Not there and not paying is not there and not paying whether you are the mother or the father.

Anything else breaches the Equality Act 2010.

MissMogwi · 03/12/2011 00:25

There's a link in the thread somewhere. I've just found it and signed myself. This might work epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/24749

TheMouseRanUpTheClock · 03/12/2011 00:29

HuntyCat is doing a fantastic job of number crunching here

KateMiddIeton · 03/12/2011 00:30

There's a link on www.facebook.com/frothers that you can share on your own FB page by clicking the share button at the bottom of the post.

CardyMow · 03/12/2011 01:42
  1. I've signed the e-petition. 2) Female NRP's are made to pay maintenance too, you know - and have been for years.

From the age of 4yo until I was 10yo (when he died), I was brought up by my dad who was a Lone Parent to me (in the 80's). My mother was the NRP, and even back then she was made to pay maintenance.

Of course female NRP's have to pay maintenance.

Sillyoldelf - It doesn't matter HOW much money the RP has, even if she has won £20 million on the lottery - the NRP STILL has to pay 15% of his income for one dc, 20% for two dc, and 25% for 3 or more dc - it is CHILD SUPPORT not spousal support. And whether the RP is a millionaire or a pauper, it makes NO DIFFERENCE. The NRP should still be paying at least the minimum amount towards supporting HIS DC.

Not 'squeezes', not 'greediness', just making her ex pay the legal amount of Child Maintenance. Awful, awful language you used there. If her Ex is earning so much that the maintenance payments cover the cost of a 4x4, then, I'll grant you, 15% or 20% of that is going to be quite a bit - but that is STILL THE AMOUNT HE HAS TO PAY FOR THOSE DC.

And 15% of £100K wouldn't leave the NRP as hard up as 15% of £15K...and an NRP on £15K pa still has to pay 15%...

ComradeJing · 03/12/2011 01:46

I haven't had a chance to read the thread but I absolutely support this as a MN campaign and as any other campaign that can get going. :)