Big disagreements with school about seperating twins in class - any advice welcome

[Leilel]

Hi, my identical twins are moving up to year 2 in infants next September. (they have a strong bond with one another and do enjoy one anothers company, but they do both have other friends in class as well).

Their current teacher would like them to be seperated into 2 diferent classes (they are at the same level academically, so that isnt the issue). She says they muck about together.

Unfortunately they have had a bit of taunting and hassle from some of the other kids and together they present a united front which makes it easier for them to cope with school, and makes it harder for bullies to hassle them (its like taking on 2 people, when a bully picks on either of them).

When i voiced my concerns today, Teacher replied: "well that doesnt happen here, the other kids are very supportive"....but the bullying does happen, Ive seen it when i'v come to collect them at the end of the day.

I just dont know what to do, they want me to say one way or another tomorrow(wether i want them in seperate classes or not tomorrow.

oh how awful for you....

no great advice sorry....

the only thing i thought was that maybe it the were split, they may develop individually and may learn to stick up for themselves which they need to as i am sure they wont be always together for rest of there lives (although they might be??)

also if teacher think they are mucking about this might hold them back educationally.

my younger brothers are twins and they were in seperate classes and they are just as close now and are there for each other...

hope it turns out ok for you all...

I was just sat here thinking of all the positives of separating them and it suddenly came to me. YOU, as their Mum, know them best, you know what will make them happiest. So, go with that. It is actually that easy.

I'd immediately discount the advice of anyone who summarily denied what you saw happening with your own two eyes and go with my gut.

Just one quick thought - dd has twins in her class - a boy and girl. The boy is a bit of a goody goody (in the eyes of the others!), eg. reminds the teacher when they've forgotten to issue prep etc. The girl does get very embarrassed by her brother, and I think being together in these circumstances has probably caused quite a rift. They are in senior school.

You know your children best though.

Are they bullied in the classroom? If so, what the hell is the teacher doing right there in the room letting it happen.

If it is in the playground, well, they can meet up there still, even if in different classes, can they? Also, would they go to lunch together?

Maybe different classes so any messing about is stopped but make sure they find each other at break and eat lunch together so they still support each other.

And play merry hell about the bullying. So many schools totally deny they have bullying. Talk about your head in the sand!

No personal experience that is any use but there was
this article in the Times Educational Suppliment that might be of interest/help to you.

My younger twin sisters (who were not identical) wished they had been separated at school. At primary school they were in the same class because my mum thought they should be. In adulthood, one of them cites the fact that they didn't get treated as individuals and this led to relationship difficulties in adulthood. Because they were always together, they didn't get individual recognition and they were always 'the twins'. Don't know personally what the current recommendations are. Might be worth looking into.

Leilel, no twin experience but my ds1 is being separated from a close friend next year due to them mucking around in the class together. He'll still be playing with his friend in the playground, but chances of him mucking around in class is minimized which I'm relieved about.

Can you find out whether they would still share the playtime as I'm guessing that's where the majority of any bullying would take place?

Also, I'd be keen to speak to the lunchtime supervisors and ask them to keep an eye on the situation too, I think.

have you asked then what they think ?

They might welcome the chance to be themselves without having such direct competition with their sibling all the time.

Mine are also id - but start school next year - and there is only one class - so not an option for us.

Thanks for the various different viewpoints. I feel like a real stress head right now (for more reasons than only this class thing), im going to get some coffee and try and concentrate on reading what people are saying, thanks

My triplets are in the same class, but are put onto different tables, so no opportunity for mucking about. I'd say talk to the girls, and if you think they're better together, talk through your concerns with the teacher.

My boys are separated in line whilst waiting to go into school cos they muck about, but they don't in class cos they don't work together.

I agree with menagerie!

I don't think that I would want my DTs separated but like Throckenholt have no choice as they will go to a one form entry school.

DD1(12) had 2 sets of twins in her class. They had separate friends and friends in common. (1 boy set and 1 girl set incidentally).

I think... you know your DTs best. I think you can argue your case and say that you want them to stay together. Recommendations mean nothing to the individual case sadly. What works for one set may not work for another. Go with your gut!

(Besides.... they need a good reason to be on the couch aged 18.... I'm working hard to make Freud proud)

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

I'm a bit upset atm, but ill describe what happened today with teacher and the subject of splitting the twins .

I asked both of them what they thought, one liked the idea of having his 'annoying' twin brother in a different class. The other wanted to stay together with his twin AND More specifically he wanted to stay with his best freind who is also in the class (his best friend is not his twin btw!)

It seems that the school had been taking one of the twins into the other class group once a week for the last few weeks to "get him used to it"........

This was done without my permission and without any consultation with me. It turns out that teacher was taking the most sensitive twin away from his best friend and from his twin brother as well.

When i spoke to him (the more sensitive twin that is) about moving classes he put his hands into his face and looked heartbroken, it had really upset him and he hadnt been able to express this worry and upset.

Several things annoyed me: the teacher has got some strange ideas about identical twins:

Shes got this idea that they arent 'individual' enough she said she wanted them to be like "normal" (non-twin) brothers. She criticised the close friendships one of them has with his best friend (a very tom-boyish girl). She said it wasnt "individual enough" to have a best friend. My twins are 6, i dont see whats wrong with having a best friend? If he was a girl they wouldnt criticise him for having a 'best friend'. Teacher said she didnt want him being "like a twin" with his best friend. (as opposed to being "like a twin" with his twin, i suppose).

It left me feeling close to tears.

They are at the same academic level so they sit on the same table. I said id try having them split, since the school is so insistant its best, but as i told the teacher, "i am not happy about this", and i insisted that the twin who doesnt have the specific best friend be the one to switch classes if they have to be split apart.

I want to point out to anyone reading this that both boys have good friendships with other kids in class, both enjoy kicking balls about with groups of boys and both have girls as friends as well.

I also want to point out that i dont know what the teacher was on about when she said: "acting like an identical twin/not individual enough". Obviously Genetically they are identical so of course there are going to be a lot of similarities, but for those who can get their stupid brains around the physical identical-ness and get to know them as individuals there are plenty of differences.

My twins are so physically alike that even i (mother) cannot tell them apart by looking alone, but there are other things such as mannerisms/tone of voice etc. That i use to tell who is who. (interestingly the best friend i mentioned can tell them apart, she also reads tone etc)

I think the teacher may be harbouring that all too familar reaction: "OMG identical twin freaks" that some people have. Which is probably just secret jealousy. LOL

I feel upset at the moment. . Ill monitor this situation to see if anything is gained by splitting them into seperate classes.

At ur school they give the aprents final say on twins placement after making tehs chools thoughts known (have seen some heavy discussions mind). they actually have mroe meetings than with SN kids! Would echo the youa s their mum know them best sentiment, you do

oh dear. Lucky this has come out at last.

Such a shame they moved your sensitive son without consulting you.

If the other son is happy to go into another class see how it goes and insist your sensitive son stays with his best friend.

Good Luck!!

Oh Leilel poor you. I don't understand why the teacher can't just let them be happy adn not try to force them to have other friends, it seems rather odd to upset them needlessly. Like Mars and throck mine will go into single form entry in a year's time but if I had the choice I would ask them what they wanted. Hope it works out for you and them

Whenever I've taught twins they've naturally found their own close circle of friends (without being seperated into different classes) by the time they reach juniors and usually don't rely on each other.

I've known three sets of twins. One set were in the same class as each other and have remained exceptionally close.

The other two sets were separated into different classes at the request of their parents and moved into their own circles of friends.

Both have fared well in any case. It's up to you, they're your children. If you really don't want them to be separated and think that emotionally it wouldn't be good for them then tell the school.

If bullying is the issue and you'd like them to remain in the same class because of that then that's a separate issue that the school needs to address also.

I don't think it is up to the teacher to decide what is good for them in terms of friendships and twin-ness, unless it is affecting them academically there and then. I bet she is no kind of expert and has had no specific training, but just basing her decisions on prejudice and half-baked ideas. I would be inclined to want proper input into this decision, eg ed-psych. I am not a teacher basher BTW, DH is a primary teacher, but he had no training on this at PGCE and I doubt your DS teacher has either.

Hope you get it sorted.

Gees I've just read your last post (sorry, lack of glasses!)

I'd absolutely put my foot down if I were in your shoes. Especially where the more sensitive twin might not cope on his own. And to be separated from his twin brother and best friend?!?!? He's only six FGS. His teacher has some rather blinkered views on twins. They are individuals. Everyone is!

I'd take it to the Headteacher. The teacher obviously doesn't have a clue. Is she the sort that will still force a left-handed person to learn to write right-handed?

Horrible cow. They should be allowed to sit on the same table. They've already developed their own identities and will continue to do so as they get older.

I'm sorry this has been handled so badly for you. can I just offer a possible teachers' explanation of why they might prefer to split them?
If people find them v hard to tell apart, the teacher might feel that it would not be good for them to be constantly called "DT1, no dt2!", particularly an issue with cover teachers, visiting teachers and dinnerladies.
I have taught a couple of sets of twins and this is what I (and they) found hard/frustrating, also things like xmas cards being addressed to "dt1-and-dt2", almost as if they are not separate people. I'm sorry you have been treated with insensitivity, do you think the teacher just phrased her (legitimate) concerns about the importance of regarding them as individuals really badly?

Thankyou to everyone for all the different views and words of support.

I do think the teacher and school have shown very blinkered and unhelpful views.

There has definately been a undercurrent of "freaky identical twins...must make them 'normal'" going on in the background.

I also feel there is an element of sexism. Since the more sensitive twin has a girl for his best friend, this is written off as "possessive" (teacher used this word, to me!).....my point being that many girls in the class have girls as best friends, this is not considered "possessive" (whats the difference, they are 6, the gender issue is irrelevant! My more sensitive twin enjoys his best friends company because they both enjoy playing football together. who konws, possibly the teacher disapproves of girls playing football??

To top it all, this morning when i took them both into class the teacher hands me a bit of paper with details of child psychologists/child bereavement councillors, who do drop in sessions..... I was completely gobsmacked! Its saying to me that they recognise both boys have been really upset by this, so instead of the school learning from the experience.... pack the boys off to a shrink and make out its something to do with their psychology.

When it boils down to it: They are 6 year olds, getting shoved around classes without getting anything explained to them or to me, seperated from identical twin, and from best friend, dumped into class with kids they are not paticularly fond of. bullying, and the school wants to pack them off to a child shrink, effectively washing its hands of the shameless way the boys have been treated. I think the person who should be seeing a shrink is the teacher, she needs to come out of the dark ages with her views on twinness and boy/girl best friends.

Its all so, just, so horrible.

Is it what makes them the happiest or what is good for them educationally (not distracting each other) and not distracting the class?

Tough one, we have twins in our class in the main they seem to ignore each other so no problems.

Maybe split them, it could be character building not relying on each other.

I would personally make a stand. They are YOUR children, and you know what will make them happy. My boys do get mistaken for each other now and again, but they just roll their eyes and correct people. This woman needs to realise that a twin relationship, particularly identicals, IS going to be different from normal siblings, and THAT is what makes them special. I would make an appointment with the headteacher, and if no joy, contact the governers of the school. Her comments are out of order, and she needs to gain some understanding of multiples.

When my triplets reach secondary, that is the time I shall ask for them to be in separate classes, as they are mature enough to cope by then. Six years old is still so young.

I just dont get why some people in our society think theres something freaky/wrong/weird about identical twins close bond. As a mother of them it just seems so natural to me. Teacher clearly doesnt understand it. She wants them to be 'more like' sibling brothers...Whats superior (or different?) about sibling brothers relationships with one another?

and on a related point:
I also get tired of documentaries about identical twins which seek to emphasise odd behaviour (its like the modern equilivent to a freak show). For every set of identical twins who choose to live together as adults/finish each others sentences etc.etc etc. there are many sets who dont. And besides, what is wrong with adult twins choosing to save money by living together... with the cost of mortgages etc it seems sensible!