Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

They're only tiny still, 18 days old today. I think a bottle may help, but I'd rather start with ebm than formula so I need to find some time to pump .

My poor nipples have had enough of the feeding already and its only 9pm!

Wow tigger, adventures abroad, you are much braver than me. I'm impressed you only say the flight was difficult (or did I mis-read, on phone) We hadn't even taken DD abroad, we won't be able to go for a bit now. And good luck for when you go bb3, are you off to turkey?

We are Dream - I am actually really looking forward to it (normally I dread it slightly) although slightly apprehensive as we ordinarily rent villas and stay out of town but this time we have gone for an all inclusive hotel in town (saving time lugging the kids in and out of cars is the plan) but limited facilities might prove too much for us.

Good luck with the expressing! I think it's easy to forget how difficult those first few days are and your boys aren't even three weeks old yet!. Sitting here now remembering when the girls were tiny and I was awake the entire night through - hiding in the living room with the girls in their moses baskets so as not to wake the whole house - with the girls waking every hour for feeds and literally falling asleep hunched over on the sofa. You do get through it though. We are all proof of that. Could you parents (next time they are down) take the monster buggy out for a nice hour long walk so you can nap?

BBx

Hello all. I'd totally forgotten about this thread (not that I've had all that much time for anything!)

I now qualify though, having had my twinnies nearly 4 weeks ago (gosh), two boys Jacob and Tobias, 7lb 2 and 7lb 12oz. I've only managed to skim-read this thread but will try to keep up from now!

dreaming re your comment last week about painkillers I wonder if it was the diclofenac making you feel sick, coz I had exactly the same, an icky sickness feeling all the time, which went off a few days after stopping the tablets. I also got terrible itching and odd spots at random places over my body which I think was from taking paracetamol constantly :( so stopped taking that too, and the 'rash' then cleared up a few days after. After my CS I was on co-codamol I think? It was fab anyway and didn't have any problems with it. Obv with having a vaginal birth this time round I feel a bit like I'm cheating to still occasionally want pain relief nearly 4 weeks after the event... been getting rare but very painful stomach pains the last 4-5 days which are annoying too, no idea whether they're related but I guess so!

Also re feeding constantly, perhaps try timing them? It seems to have worked with both my twins (so far, though afterwards Jacob fusses and still wants to suck the whole time) and my ds1 (when I eventually plucked up the courage to do it - 5 months in). Give no more than 30 mins per feed (I personally do 20 mins at most - when I'm awake enough to remember!) because after that they're getting virtually nothing anyway. And the supply doesn't have to be huge at this stage - it's about the same as ONE 4 month old is supposed to eat, yet no-one thinks that's a lot do they?! Maybe just try it for a couple of days and see if it's any good. Also what BB3 said about using expressed milk to test their hunger. (tommee tippee closer to nature is supposed to be the best set of bottles to combine boob and bottle)

Does cuddling them in bed help to calm them at all? Or having them in a sling if daytime? My Jacob is the fusser so wants to be held/in a sling most of the time and once asleep I can lie down with him still in it and grab a kip...assuming the other two are asleep of course!!

1am. Not managed to settle Seb. Just given a bottle of ebm for the first time to test his constant sucking and he's downed the lot (only 2.5oz,all I'd managed to pump) . Don't know whether to laugh or cry!

I think the sickness and vomiting was the diclofenac like you say lemele I'm taking no painkillers now, haven't since day 15 (they're 19 days old now), am driving- all checked with gp/ insurance, picking up toddler, pushing buggy etc so have been lucky with my recovery.

Right. To see if this little tike will sleep... Dreading having to fit expressing in regularly but oh I hope it works!

Dream hope you managed to settle him ok and get a little bit of rest!

Hi lemele - sounds like everything is going well for you, how was the birth? The boys must be starting to show their little personalities now xx

Also wow on the weights - well done you! And love the name Jacob and tobias (especially Tobias, that was on my list before dh vetoed it!)

Wow dreaming well done on dropping the pain relief! :) I know I was taking them for a lot longer after my CS. Hope the expressing works for you, or at least helps. With my current 'one on boob one on bottle' routine I have to say I'm always glad to know that at least one baby has definitely had enough!

Thanks BB3, we couldn't actually decide on boys names coz we both find them so UNinspiring so hubby chose one and I chose the other. Still not certain about Jacob (incidentally the one I chose!) but I'm sure it'll suit him once he's a cute little toddler :)

The birth was great in comparison to my first, an ELCS. I fought for a VBAC and am so glad I did. Had a great Dr and lovely midwives, felt looked after and didn't mind the monitoring/millions of tubes, etc because I was doing it properly Pushing them out and having them straight on my chest was just amazing. And their little bodies were so hot! Yes I couldn't believe how good the weights were either coz they were only 37 weeks. It was probably due to my diabetes (despite being well controlled) so in a way I guess it was sort of a benefit there...

Also - what is tree top hold?

Lemele, they are GORGOUS names!

Lemele - google tiger in tree hold for babies or have a look at this cute baby I found on google images <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1440&bih=781&tbm=isch&tbnid=irWDq4zXQm7GpM:&imgrefurl=samuelwx.blogspot.com/2007/01/tiger-in-tree.html&docid=Z1RCs_tn8rMtMM&imgurl=1.bp.blogspot.com/_NM0sg4NS3Zo/RaLu8FdktZI/AAAAAAAAAFk/doXNMUw_RQk/s320/100_0794.JPG&w=320&h=225&ei=2hGXT-iFNarE0QXd9bG1Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=307&vpy=154&dur=552&hovh=180&hovw=256&tx=181&ty=105&sig=114121314738147475963&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=224&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:72" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cute baby. The trick is to have an arm pressing on the tummy and your arm coming out between legs then rock them up and down to try and imitate being back in the womb. It had a wonderful effect on dt1.

We went to Israel for 12 days and bb3 the packing nearly killed me! Key things to ask for at desk

Lemele - congratulations on your twins! Google tiger in tree hold for babies or have a look at this <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1440&bih=781&tbm=isch&tbnid=irWDq4zXQm7GpM:&imgrefurl=samuelwx.blogspot.com/2007/01/tiger-in-tree.html&docid=Z1RCs_tn8rMtMM&imgurl=1.bp.blogspot.com/_NM0sg4NS3Zo/RaLu8FdktZI/AAAAAAAAAFk/doXNMUw_RQk/s320/100_0794.JPG&w=320&h=225&ei=2hGXT-iFNarE0QXd9bG1Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=307&vpy=154&dur=552&hovh=180&hovw=256&tx=181&ty=105&sig=114121314738147475963&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=224&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:72" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cute baby I found on google images . The trick is to have an arm pressing on the tummy and your arm coming out between legs then rock them up and down to try and imitate being back in the womb. It had a wonderful effect on dt1.

We went to Israel for 12 days and bb3 the packing nearly killed me! Key things to ask for at desk are if you can sit together as a family (they wouldn't allow more than one infant per row as there were 4 oxygen masks per row on one side of the plane and 3 on the other) and if not get yourself seated behind rather than the stewards trying to force you to the other end of the plane when you board. Also be prepared for long walks without buggies at other end so if yours are still slingable bring some with (we didn't). Also on way back if flight is delayed and you're trying to manage huge non-moving queue with screaming babies don't be shy about queue jumping. We were actually encouraged by every person we were unfortunate enough to stand next to. Also I think every person on our flight vowed never to fly Thomson again. They were worse than Ryanair.

And you can get baby food through security if you hide it in your hand luggage. I did have to taste the milk though. It didn't taste as bad as I'd believed, rather sweet.

Dt2 got a return of a bad cough while we there which was unpleasant. It had got us sent to hospital by overcautious gp 2 weeks before. He then threw it off and passed it to dt1 . Apart from that and ds1 being a complete pain we had a niceish time. The weather was very good which was lovely. Dt1 became a much happier baby in hot weather and was expressing firm intention of moving there. As soon as we returned here he turned back to his usual more grouchy self.

We stayed in a flat so that was nice and easy to manage with kettles, bottles, food and ds1 who needed space. We also had a washing machine so I returned with all but about 2 loads clean and ready to unpack and a lot of flexibility in when we ate etc. We didn't go too far, mainly bus trips to parks and beach. It was very pleasant but I'd love to have a holiday minus kids now!!!!

It's actually our 2nd time abroad with them. We took them to Paris at 6 months for my BIL's wedding. That was more difficult because we were in a hotel who initially refused to let us have a kettle in the room and then we had to negotiate the metro with buggies (2 singles) as we couldn't find a way to take car seats and buggies. Oh yes and neither baby slept plus ds1 came out with chicken pox the morning after the wedding to round off the fun.

Happy to answer any other questions on babies abroad.

Now we're nanny hunting as I return to work in 8 weeks. Haven't shot any yet....

Good tips tiggersreturn. We'll be emigrating back to the UK in August so I've got the prospect of packing up our entire house, working out what to ship back and therefore not have for a further 3 months, what will have to fly back with us and what to do with the rest. And a 10 hour flight with 3 kids. Yuk. I managed flying fine with just DD, I used to breastfeed her into submission, but what with the one infant per aisle rule that's not going to work this time...

Ladies, I really am pulling my hair out with DD. She is in love with the boys, but every now and again with absolutely no warning she bites/hits/scratches them. And she doesn't hold back. It's totally breaking my heart. I think she gets really stressed out by the crying, of which there is a lot as there's just me looking after all 3. Ah, bugger it, all 4 of us are crying at certain points in the day (mainly between 3 and 5pm...hate the afternoon).

I managing fine getting out and about, but it's those times when we're all home and I have to feed one or other of the boys, the other starts crying and then DD lamps one of them. I give up sometimes, i really do...

Hello lemele congrats on your twins, great weights and sounds like you had a lovely birth!

How are you dream?

tiggersreturn good luck with the nanny hunting, don't kill them all!!

rednellie I really do not envy you, having moved with dd1 was only 10 days old, I cannot imagine how stressful moving on the other side of the atlantic must be! I didn't know about the "one baby per aisle" rule, does that apply to all flights? I did know you need one adult per infant though. And so sorry about dd, I wish I had any words of wisdom for you, must be heartbreaking as you feel pulled in all directions...can you not get some help in?

we are doing tiny steps in the right direction re sleep. They still have a good couple of hours crying every night, but last night they went down at a more reasonable 9.30pm. R took a dummy while his sister used me as one as usual!!

Hi ladies!

Hope everyone is well!

Not logged in for a while - been flat out between babies and a 6 week contract in music academy - i'm leaving house at 7 am twice a week and doing other hours too so it's hectic trying to get everyone organised!! I've decided once i finish i'm checking myself into a spa hotel with a friend for a treat! ;) Dh and the babies will survive for one night i'm sure!

Not managed to read all the posts I've missed but scanned through some!

Dreaming I really hope things are improving for you - I remember those awful moments of tiredness only too well, it's such a tough time and it seems like it will never end. Don't be too proud to ask help from family and friends - initially i was too proud to ask for help and thought i could do it all alone, once i swallowed my pride it helped me recharge my batteries.

Really admiring the travel stories - i think you are so brave! Isreal sounds amazing was there a few years ago - i long for sunshine in rainy ireland!!

Red so sad heaing about your DD, i hope things get easier really soon.

Spent about 3hours last night on a pureeing mission - the freezer is now stocked up for at least 2weeks if not more! The girls are getting much better now with thier food -about time - only took a month! Had them weighed last week ,they're 14lbs 6 each (6.6kg) So delighted that 'little' Esme is now as big as her sister! :)

Rednellie - I'd recommend dummies, blankets to cover heads and face, gentle rocking on knee and singing as a way to get sleeping babies. Worked for dt1 who I had on the way back.

Sounds awful with your older one. Is there any chance you could get a school age girl or cleaner to come and give you a hand at that time. Then either they could play with her or you could feed one baby and play with her while other person deals with other baby.

Oh no, reading all of your comments has kind of made me feel worse! I sort of thought/hoped that someone elses DC had had a similar reaction to the twins and would have some reassurance. I 'think' the whole biting thing is a totally normal developmental thing for this age (2yrs), but it's not nice. It is normal isn't it? Please tell me yes!

If I have a rota of activities to fill the afternoon or we get out for a walk we're generally ok, but it's not always possible to do that. I think the worst thing is wanting to protect your babies, but also feeling awful for inflicting them on your PFB...ah well, I've had it easy in so many other ways. I guess we all have our crosses to bear. We're a bit financially constrained so paying for help isn't really an option and we haven't really got a support network here, I have managed to get a cleaner though, so at least that's one thing...boo.

claire, I am NOT looking forward to moving us back to the UK. It's the packing/deciding what needs to come with us/get shipped, finding somewhere to live without actually being able to look around houses...After worrying about all that, I'm not that bothered about the flight - I'm quite looking forward to being the nightmare family that no one wants to sit next too.

I remember when we came here this smarmy younger man asked to change seats so he wasn't next to DD and me. He ended up squashed in the middle of a group of 5 seats whereas I had 3 seats to myself and DD slept the whole way. He was mighty miffed.

rednellie I think for loads of children biting at around 2 is totally normal. DD has been bitten twice at soft play by children about that age. Once infuriated me as the child's mother didn't even bat an eyelid!! I can't be sure what DD will do when its just me with my three. I've always had someone with me so far, they're only 3 weeks old today and I'm not meant to be lifting car seats/Isla yet post-CS. I can and have but am more sore and considering pain killers again now as a result . So she's had loads of attention, babies haven't cried unattended for too long, but I'm sure it will change. Almost everyone I know even with one second child has had issues. My friend has a lovely 3 year old who was 22 months when her brother was born. She went through a phase of pulling his legs up when he was sitting or crawling so he fell onto his face or back and smacked his head, hitting him on the head with puzzle pieces etc etc. She said she tried time out, taking away her after tea tv time and more and the worse the punishment the worse the behaviour got. She went back to saying 'no, you've hurt your brother, don't do that' and paying attention to him only for a bit and she gradually stopped doing it. It's a phase, I'm.sure you'll get there.

Well done with your girls weights twinnies . I was sick of the sight of my blender by the end of the puree stage, good effort last night. I struggled to get my brood to playgroup for 10am today, how you're out by 7 I don't know!

I'm still struggling with the feeding, having to express now, 6 oz a day to top Seb up in the evening and midnight-1am ish as he feeds for hours but won't settle without necking another 3oz ebm... Trying not to panic that he needs this much at 3 weeks today and how I'll keep up and get through one feed at a time, let alone one day! Ben feeding a lot but not needing top ups.

Forgotten the rest, I'm on my phone, feeding as usual!

Rednellie - biting is a normal phase, ds did it (to me) and the advice they give is don't react to it, take them off move them and don't give them a reaction. This is of course not at all practical when your little babies are being hurt which is why it is so difficult for anyone to give any advice. You also don't want to tell dd off too much and cause resentment. Does your hv / mw have any suggestions.

Where are you moving back too?

I had no idea about oxygen masks and my dad is and aircraft line manager. I've just called him and it's only bloody true (not that I doubted you tigger). I am quite fortunate (although my bank balance isn't) that I'm taking my mother and sister too so there are four adults and three kids so it's not too horrendous. It's the packing that worries me the most! We use reusable nappies at home but will need to take enough disposables for 15 days plus wipes plus food, food equipment, clothes, swim stuff and all the usual holiday paraphernalia lotions and potions! We aren't taking car seats and I've just bought a lightweight buggy to take with us. It will be fine once we are there... Hurrumph!

Claire yay for better settling from r x

Dream how are those boys feeding / settling now? Have you managed any sleep!

Twinnies yay for not so little esme (I do love that name!)

Lemele - don't even remind me about boys names - dh and I fought like cat and dog trying to name ds (and I refused to name him for a week a when he popped out the little begger looked just like the name dh wanted and I couldn't bear to give in). Even before the twins were born we could only agree on one boys name - we would have been in trouble if we'd ended up with two boys not two girls!

Don't think about the feeding . As above, I'm having to fit in expressing to get 6 or so ounces to top Seb up. Both cluster feed but nothing bar guzzling about 3oz on top will settle Seb. Ben is ok, I can cope with him. As they feed so often I only get about 2oz with each go at expressing (double pump too) so its washing/ sterilizing/ pumping three times a day. Finding it quite exhausting and working on getting through each feed at the minute.

Oh my goodness, the packing sounds terrifying! Do babies get their own baggage allowance or do you have to pay for extra bb3?

BB3 - unless you're going really 3rd world you can get nappies and wipes at the other end. It may be expensive but not as much as the overweight. You just need enough for the first day or so until you get there. There will be a way to get to a supermarket unless you're really isolated. What stage are you at with food? I gave them cucumber sticks, cream cheese, yoghurt, strawberries (very popular), bananas and oranges. All you really need are some disposable teaspoons and a sippy cup. Car seats - we took 1 and one of my cousins provided another at the other end plus a booster for ds1. We bought a double maclaren on ebay a while ago intending to use it for flights and to keep in the car boot.

Rednellie - biting is very normal at 2. I think the what to expect book says it's more normal and preferable to kicking or hitting. Also abuse my siblings is perfectly normal. The usual example given is your husband brings home a new wife and tells you to be "nice" to her. What would you do? Now what would you do if he brought home two and spent no time with her? Not hugely helpful but the usual advice is the more time and attention spent with the older one will help accustom them to the change until they've forgotten the previous reality.

That's a great analogy tigger!

And Lemele, I love your names too. Jacob is a fave of mine, all the Jacobs I know are lovely and almost without exception very very handsome.

BB3, I 'think' we're going to be going back into dirty old London, but only for a short period. DH has to go back to his job and then we're going to start looking in the West country/Wales. With our boatload of Welsh names we'd probably fit in more closer to the border! But yeah, big smoke for the next year...

Just had a bit of good news today - had my 6 week check up. We're all doing great and the boys are the exact same weight - 9lbs 12oz. That's over 3lbs from my boobs alone. I am very pleased! Makes all the soreness/thrush/arm ache worth it.

Thanks guys :) I think the reason I'm suddenly less sure about Jacob is coz I've never known any kids personally with that name, whereas I know a gorgeous little boy called Toby and think of him every time I hear the name! I'm sure that soon enough he will define the name and help me love it, coz in principle I really do like it! It doesn't help that he still looks a bit like a monkey...

Travelling/moving house across the world sounds terrifying. We're attempting to sell our place and buy a bigger one, and if we get the house we'd like then our move basically will consist of moving a few streets away, yet I'm still absolutely dreading it if/when the time comes!!

Also, yes biting is perfectly normal, don't worry too much about it, as others have said try and give your older child more attention than you think they deserve for biting your helpless baby and yes think of the analogy of your hubby bringing home another woman or something. I'm still impressed with how well my DS1 is dealing with the twins though am fully expecting things to change once they're mobile and nicking his toys, etc!

Dreaming, it sounds like you're doing really well. Keep it up, you're stronger than you think :)

rednellie it's nice when they're the same weight isn't it! Mine were exactly the same down to the gram when weighed last week, couldn't quite believe it... of course that meant that the midwife was still a bit 'ooo err Toby's still not that heavy, better weigh him again soon' (he was the bigger baby.) All a bit ridiculous when you think about it!

lemele why do they always try and look for the negative?

So I just bought this for the holiday. It is a complete waste of money. Complete. But I love it!