Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

Oh, and sounds like you're doing all you can about your DD and the boys rednellie, positive praise when she's lovely, ignore the bad and giving her attention would be all I could think of too, so i guess grit your teeth while chanting 'this too shall pass?!' (I'm no help, sorry)

Wow, lots of chat!
silver let us know how knocking off the reflux mess works - I've taken dd off them as she'd clearly outgrown het dose but I can't figure out Ds - he's in lactose free milk, but also has teeth issues, and we're introducing solids... So many factors I can't work it out!

twinnes how I remember the 2 hours of feeds every 4 hours! - breastfeeding then bottle too ups for both of them, with split bottles for them to get their meds in... How I ever did it once dh went back to work I have no idea!! It does get easier though dreaming honestly it does until you have to fit in pureed sodding carrrot. Are yours relatively efficient feeders? One of mine was sooo sloooow. And now they both are, but thats a different story! Also have you tried infacol for wind - it only worked occasionally for ours, but when it did it worked well IYSWIM.

One of mine is slower, one needs burping constantly while feeding or just starts puking while still sucking, one needs holding upright for ages afterwards or he pukes... I have just bought infacol for one (only one bottle left at local pharmacy) but he hated it so much when I tried it he wouldn't feed for ages afterwards so i instantly gave up on the premise it never seemed to do much for DD (but at least she liked it!) Maybe I should try it properly though, I am getting desperate, though sure it'll make no difference to the constant demands for boob. If they'd just go a couple of hours without feeding at night...!

Hope you weren't drowning in vomit today silver. I liked rice cakes as finger food as they went mushy easily when attempted by DD. And bananas, and toast as again it was mostly mumbled and sucked and she never choked on that. A friend gave her a breadstick once early on, which she thought was marvellous but i was wetting myself thinking it looked windpipe diameter!!!

Sounds complicated peeling, hope your DD does well without and you figure ds out I know I couldn't, my brain is too baby addled

Dreaming sorry but absolutley no advice for you - because the girls were in hospital for so long we really missed out on the very difficult early days and they were nicley sorted into a routine by the nurses. I hope it gets better soon and you get a decent stretch of sleep.

We are back on the reflux meds - my gut instinct was clearly wrong and pretty much 10 mins after their bottle both were puking! We're only on ranitidine 2xday now and gaviscon in each bottle but needless to say will be sticking with it. We're still using infacol too - made a big difference to how they settled in the beginning and it seems to counteract the constipation caused by the formula.

Today I got brave, lunch was banana (thanks Red!), grated cheese and some steamed brocolli. They loved it and some of it (all of the cheese!) Actually got swallowed!

dream mine are the same re sleep: they sleep loads inthe morning and early afternoon, but late aftern/eve they're cranky and cry/cluster feed. Dd2 was the same dd1 never slept for first 12 weeks Also they are quite goid at falling asleep by thrnsrlves hhroughtout the day and during the night but not in the evening, when they need to be fed to sleep: it makes for a very sore nipple I can tell you! Some nights they dont settle until 12-1am but I am now trying to put them down earlier and last night it was 10.30 but I am not saying that aloud or it wont happen agsin! Part of the problem I think is that we have had them in the living room with us every evening [lazy mum emoticon] and now they're used to the noise and light at that time. They're 10 wks tmrw so hopefully it will sort itself out in the next couple of weeks (she says hopeful!)

Claire, mine sound just like yours. And just like my DD... 12-1am is my normal for them settling too though its been as bad as 3am... I'm existing on about 3 hours broken sleep a night. Have yours managed to go down at 10:30 again?? Ours are just downstairs with us too. Too scared they'll wake DD up if they're upstairs ay the minute!

Both at doctors today as i can't manage two refluxing pukers by myself when dh is back at work and not helping next week. They're both growing well, so i feel s bit bad to take them.but I'm wondering if gavisvon might help. Horrible to have both upset refluxing and puking every evening/night

silver, the power of cheese . My step sister had always said she doesn't trust anyone who doesn't like cheese :-)

Dream hope you're able to get something for the reflux. The girls are 7 months tomorrow and have in the past month got themselves into a nice bed time of 7-7.30 (albeit the little blighters are still not sleeping through) but it does get easier xx

So nice to hear that BB3. I'm struggling with the evening crying. Ben particularly is so refluxy he's arching, writhing and crying a lot in the evening, Seb is too but not to the same extent. It's so horrible having them cry in pain,I find it so upsetting. (I did with DD too, but she didn't get like this til a bit older). They have got gaviscon to try now, so FX.

dream how are you getting on? any improvement?

A friend of mine brought me some Infacol from the uk the other day and I have started giving it to dtb, and it looks like it's making a lot of difference. Definitely less wind, less crying in pain, and less comfort feeding too! And last night he went down at 9pm, fell asleep by himslef 30 mins later, and didnt' wake again til 2am!! (and then 7)

we still had dtg to contend with, as she didn't give in til 11pm, but at least it meant one of us was free and I had a long cuddle with dd2, bless her!

So, a step in the right direction, at least.

On a different note I am getting REALLY fed up with all the people stopping us when we are out, especially when they touch the twins or get their kids to do the same, without even asking . Honestly why would you think that is acceptable?? I'd never do anything like that, it is really getting on my nerves as well as meaning that every shopping trip takes twice as long as needed. And I am fed up answering the same stupid questions (ooh a boy and a girl, are they identical? grr no they can't be!!)...ok Rant over.

Claire it once took me an hour to get from one side of John Lewis to the other as I was stopped so much, I refused to push them when out as I didn't like the freak show feeling, which all my friends couldn't believe when they came out with us as it's quite full on. Everyone means well though although I also got with the touching and used to ensure I stood between the girls and said admirers so that there could be no chance of it. It's not ok! However it decreases dramatically once they are out of the newborn stage! yay for infacol and dd2 cuddles x

No improvement here.... In fact, I would say this is my worst day yet. After a dreadful night I ve got the 'can't cope/ can't carry on' feeling. Clearly I'll have to but I'm barely functioning on my 3 hours broken sleep a night... Infacol not doing much here, but i also keep forgetting to give it at every feed...

Glad the infacol is working for R Claire, shame not both!

We got mobbed in the playground the other day, mostly by mums I know so was quite nice to show them off but I can imagine it'll wear thin very, very soon...

Hope everyone else is ok.

Oh Dreaming, . do you have any help? Even if someone else can just take them for a couple of hours while you nap it will help.
I will get better I promise, but it does take a while. Do you have a nicely upright bouncy chair for sitting them in post feed - it doesn't matter if they end up sleeping in it s bit?
I found that drs didn't take reflux too seriously while mine were still gaining weight, so do make a nuisance of yourself at the docs.
Any questions any of us cab help with? No matter how silly!

I'm very lucky to have help in the day- dh, either my mum or my dad, or a mothers help lady who I'm lucky enough to have my dad paying for Wednesday and Friday. So always 2 adults to the 3 children.

It's the evenings and nights that are killing me though. Both babies are on the boob fairly constantly from 7-8pm up until 12-1am. I almost never have even 20 minutes without one or both babies feeding (nipples hurting quite a lot now!). I'm a bit wary of trying to stop them, as I presume I need a mega-supply of milk to feed them both, and supply and demand mechanism for bf, but how, how can they need to feed so much?! In between feeding, they fret. Puke (so I think they don't need to feed), kick their legs up, arch backwards, writhe, look generally uncomfortable, reflux, cry... Bouncy chairs, yes yes, but they are just the same in them- crying, vomiting, unhappy. We desperately don't want DD woken up so always let them back on the boob, which calms them. Then, from midnight-1am, when they finally go to sleep, they may stay asleep for up to 2 hours, on their best night, 2.5 hours, though sometimes only one hour, and then the whole feed/wind/puke/change clothes/ nappies ritual begins again for up to 2 hours or so, and I get maybe 2 lots of 90 min sleep a night.

I'm using Infacol with Ben, who's worst. Today, it finally seems to be having an effect (I never thought it did anything with DD). Can I use the same bottle of it for them both? I suspect not, but I only have one, and its sunday afternoon... Would it be really bad to use the same bottle of infacol for them both?

In the day, I tend to have one sleeping and one fussing and wanting to feed, feed feed, unless I'm pushing them in the pushchair. Obviously, I can't nap in either of these situations!! If my mum or dad took the boys, I'd have DD so that isn't really an option either. a 19 month old is not restful!

This cycle has led to me being an exhausted sobbing wreck the last 2 evening/nights. DH helps up til 12 mostly, but not anymore as he's back at work tomorrow... I have the Night Dreads already!!

So, can anyone spot anything I can do/am doing wrong to help the boys and me????

Sorry for the me-me-me post. I really am no fun at the minute and becoming increasingly obsessed with sleep!!!!!

I hope everyone else is having nice, relaxing, sleep-filled weekends with their children!

You're not doing anything wrong, in fact by demand/EBF twins with a toddler you're doing AMAZINGLY well. More than me, that's for sure.

The only things I can think of are; accept that with 3 under 2 one will be crying most of the time. I think that's a big difference from singletons. Yes, obviously you try and comfort/avoid, but do not beat yourself up if one is crying and you're dealing with another one. It happens and 6 months down the line dd is v chilled because she's got used to waiting.

Personally mine absolutely shared infacol. In fact we went to stay with friends who also had a newborn and pretty sure the bottles got mixed up and nobody suffered any ill effects. They share your boobs, right? Do not worry about that kind of stuff!

Will they settle in a sling even if not being bf, so you and dh can each 'wear' one in the evenings? We def did that for a few weeks.

Will try and think of anything else. In the meantime take it easy, eat takeaway, sod anything non vital!

Thanks peeling. Infacol for both it is then! The gp told me they shouldn't share though dh says the same about sharing boobs! Does seem.ridiculous now you've said it but I'm.so sleep deprived I can't think straight. Got one fussing on me now, one asleep in travel cot, DD asleep in her cot and dh asleep. Jealous, me?! (Incidentally its the infacol-ed one fretting, maybe not so effective after all!)

Yes, slings are a help, but they do root if i carry them. Need to work out how to sling both in the moby.

And I'd like to stop feeling guilty about not getting out anywhere exciting with poor DD. She normally does an activity every morning and we'd do something as a family at the weekend. Ha!! It's like trying to mobilise an army getting my brood out, we get nowhere fast!

Have put a pic of my boys up on my page. I should stop whinging and count my blessings with my three beautiful children. :)

And DD too of course

Oh dream whinge away. I don't know what I'd have done those early days without a place to whinge and -

Have you tried a bottle of expressed bf? If they take say 5 oz of that in an evening and are still screaming then the likelihood is they are not still hungry and are fussing through discomfort and using you as a comfort tool rather than food supplies! I'm guessing here as have never had a colicky baby but I would try infacol regularly for a couple of days and try a bottle of ebf or ff in the evenings

And - ask for help that should have said

Fundamentally though you cannot survive on that little sleep you just can't! perhaps not everyday but a few times a week you need an hour or two with no babies or napping babies so you can get some rest, you just have to work out if that's possible. Could for example your parents come this week at the same time as mothers help and for the entire time she is here you sleep? I know it's asking a lot of them but I'm sure they wouldn't mind. What about your in-laws? Is dd in nursery at all?

poor you dream you must be shattered (and I must stop complaining baout the amount of sleep I get...)

My dtb is not as bad as you describe yours, but I am convinced a lot of the feeding was for comfort rather than food, as he just kept bobbing his head and starting/stopping as he clearly did not want the milk as already full. Arching his back and drawing knees up too. I definitely find an improvement with infacol (or he is growing out of it and it is just a coincidence...., and yes they can share, I am so naughty that I also let them share bottles when one has left lots in, or i would throw away so much milk. I reckon they spend so much time close, that whatever one has the other is bound to catch anyway.

One thing we have been doing also, when they woudln't settle in the night we just take them into bed with us. I am not terribly comfortable with the idea, because of SIDS etc, but sometimes needs must, I reckon the risk is smaller than me crashing the car/ or setting fire to the house due to lack of sleep!! They do fall asleep in their basket most of the time so I am not worried about bad habits, but at least we got some extra hours in.

Sorry not much advice I am afraid, but lots of sympathy from me too.

Dream - congratulations on dts and good luck with evenings. Ds1 was like that and it was awful. Dt1 was very colicky but dt2 was a mass vomiter so at least we had variety. We tried all colic remedies on dt1 none worked. In the end a dummy and dh perfecting tiger in trees hold worked best until we got through that stage. Also I can't recommend a night nurse enough. Definitely worth the small fortune you have to pay.

We've just come back from holiday. Flying with twins definitely has its challenges.......

Could you pay a teenager to take dts for a walk while one of your parents looks after dd?

How old are they now Dreaming? I was hesitant to suggest a bottle, but it might help you work out if its hunger or comfort (mine were bf with a ff top up each time and still went through a cluster feed stage, but at least they would sleep a few hours once down).

Tigger - where did you go, and how did it work out?!

Oh yes tigger - how was it? Any tips? I'm off in 3.5 weeks 4 hour flight with the three kids and I'm already daunted enough with what I have to pack let alone do the flight!

Dream - my friend told me about the tree top hold too! Just on bottle - wasn't suggesting you should do this, only what I would try, you should only do what you're comfortable with. if you do go for it I'd get dh to give it to them first off as they're likely to be more interested in you than the bottle x

Claire girls are 7months and still come in with us, go down in their cot but come in early hours of the morning. I'll regret it when the battle starts to keep them in their all night but I'll deal with that when it comes to it!