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Original poster

Oops! Just started an accidental neighbour dispute

494 replies

tinytoessize4 · 29/08/2008 23:03

Any legal eagles reading? Advice please...

We have a shared passageway only with next door, enclosed at either end, and locked at our end (we did not put the lock on and have evidence to prove this). We thought we owned it outright, but this is not the case as it is a restrictive covenant in the deeds. Anyway, we propsed to move our kitchen downstairs into the passageway area, knockig down our internal wall to create an open room. Yes, we know the planning permission necessary and checked this out. Out of courtesy we informed our neighbour of our pending planning permission application. We have a small son and one bedroom. We only have 2k to do the alterations. I'll continue...we informed her of this, and that she had never utilised the right of access since we had been there and never since the previous owner of our house had been there either. She got a wee bit shirty. Saying that we admitted blocking our passage by placing a lock on the door (!) to which she didn't have a key (why? because she never bothered to get one when whoever put the lock on did it.) and that this was actionable nuisance. grr. she said she wanted monetary compensation for this. We said we didn't have any money. But we do have a shared right of access across the back of her property. We offered to exchange this. She hasn't yet responded. We said it would be best if we met face to face (terrible but we haven't met her and we've been here 2yrs! We were talking by letter). She's a litigation lawyer and though I am a law student, still have a year left. She quoted James v Stevenson [1893] AC 291 at me but I couldn't find it on Westlaw. Where do we stand with regard to the fact the right of access hasn't been exercised by her for about 10yrs? is there any precedent of lapsed right of access? Sorry its long ladies & gents....

OP posts:
clam · 05/09/2008 17:13

TinyToes, so if we're against your plan because we're MNers, do you suppose you'd get a different response if you were to poll a couple of hundred friends/relatives/people in the street?

annh · 05/09/2008 17:14

Agree with Clam that people on this forum do not band together in a sort of pack mentality. There have been some ferocious arguments on here on a variety of topics with various people holding completely opposite views and eloquently arguing their position. However, the fact that we have ALL agreed on this one might indicate something -(whispers) - we might be right! Just because you say the work will get done does not mean it will happen. You can affirm something as much as you like but that doesn't make it right.

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 17:14

As I see it, the facts are:

  1. the houses are Grade II listed
  2. your neighbour has right of way over the passage
  3. The plans involve turning her external wall into an internal one
  4. you have p*ssed off your neighbour
  5. you have a tiny budget

any one of these would make this enterprise unlikely to happen. All together?

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 17:15

Of course, it would have been better had I numbered those correctly

BoysAreLikeDogs · 05/09/2008 17:15

I am tempted to report the whole thread on the grounds that it is no longer entertaining but fecking boring.

[folds arms]

Twiglett · 05/09/2008 17:16

LOL @By SoupDragon on Fri 05-Sep-08 17:06:53
How was the passage added later? Were the properties completely detached before and a top added or did they tunnel through?

lulumama · 05/09/2008 17:17

ha @ soupy !

TillyScoutsmum · 05/09/2008 17:21

I'm a Chartered Surveyor and have done some Land Law. Proving abandonment of an easement is very difficult to do. In this instance, I would think there would be, frankly, no chance. The amount of elapsed time is too short and your neighbour (or her predecessors) have not been in a position to take advantage of the easement because they have been unable to gain access due to not having a key to the locked door.

I would say the easement still exists and as such, if she wanted to ask for a key to enable her to take advantage of her easement, then you would legally need to provide one.

lou031205 · 05/09/2008 17:22

www.lawcom.gov.uk/docs/cp186.pdf

You might find some useful info here, page 110 on. It discusses abandonment of easements.

annh · 05/09/2008 17:30

So now we have a Chartered Surveyor, a lawyer (or perhaps more than one) and the "Mumsnet Mob" all telling you the same thing. Any chance you might listen to us?!

fuzzywuzzy · 05/09/2008 17:34

IME for a first time offence, one gets a police record, off your record in five years but your DNA remains on the database..... one is not very likely to get a criminal record for changing a lock, seriously, moreso if its a first offence so obviously you have hope she maybe a serial lock changer[hmmm].

flowerybeanbag · 05/09/2008 17:35

This is unbelievable!

And contrary to the claim that the mumsnet brigade all jump in with one voice, threads where everyone except the OP agree are a rare thing indeed.

Original poster
tinytoessize4 · 05/09/2008 17:49

lol...this is now ever so amusing. i might just argue the toss because.

but i have stuff to do. and they were quotes. not estimates. and written quotes at that.

OP posts:
Flibbertyjibbet · 05/09/2008 17:50

Woohoo and omfg is this stll going on!! Just marking so it appears in my active convos later when I have time to read all the 8 new pages since I last checked!

SaintGeorge · 05/09/2008 17:50

If you are so desperate for this thread to die, why do you keep posting on it?

clam · 05/09/2008 18:17

Why amusing? Are you saying you've been p* about when people have, actually, been trying to help and advise (originally, before you closed your ears to advice)? If so, I'm seriously hacked off.

ThinWhiteDuchess · 05/09/2008 18:17

OMG

Tiny, you are bonkers. And quite rude too.

lulumama · 05/09/2008 18:19

you are very rude. and closed minded

at least you have written quotes

as for everything else, you are in cloud cuckoo land

you are not challenging the points raised as there is no comeback

i feel really sorry for your neighbour

Original poster
tinytoessize4 · 05/09/2008 19:04

lulu - im not challenging points because i have things to do so can't be on all day. for once i had some time to myself today. tonight i have to give a f'ing witness statement about the assault i witnessed last week so go on, make my day better with all your bright worthy insights.

i have not been p*ing about clam and i would very much like to know where there was any polite helpful advice.

thin - not rude in rl just when faced with a certain calibre of person.

saint - get the others to stop with their continual harping useless criticism and i'll stop posting.

OP posts:
Original poster
tinytoessize4 · 05/09/2008 19:05

and im not close minded. i am exceptionally open minded - to what do you base that assumption on? i haven't said anything remotely to do with close/open minded discussion.

OP posts:
SaintGeorge · 05/09/2008 19:07

I suspect the others don't give two hoots if this thread continues or not. Personally I am finding it highly amusing on a rainy Friday evening.

You on the other hand keep sighing dramatically and have posted more than once that you want it to stop.

SO STOP BLOODY POSTING ON IT THEN!

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 19:08

Start making any sense at all and maybe we will stop.

[cackle]

Mutt · 05/09/2008 19:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 19:10

I'd base the "close minded" judgement on the fact that you WILL be doing this whether your neighbour likes it or not, your failure to see that it may not be in her best interests to agree and the way you think you've been unfailingly polite and reasonable in all your correspondence with her, despite hoards of harpies telling you otherwise.

lulumama · 05/09/2008 19:17

IMO, you are closed minded because despite surveyors, lawyers and just plain old regular people telling you to the contrary and trying to show you the opposite side of the coin.. you are steadfastly refusing to give an inch. which might serve you brilliantly as a lawyer, but as a neighbour, it is not going to get you very far
there are 400 messages on this thread, and they all agree with each other, not with you. so at the end of the day, it might be wise to take a step back and wonder if maybe, , just maybe, this is not quite how you are seeing it?

that maybe, this neighbour , who is a litigator, and already pissed off , is not going to roll over and play dead

there has been a lot of helpful and sound advice, from at least one lawyer and a chartered surveyor

lots of links have been posted to relevant legal info

yet you persist in ignoring it all

perhaps you dont; class the advice on this thread as useful or helpful because it does not agree with your opinion

so on all of those things, i say you are closed minded.

i am sorry that you witnessed an assualt, that must have been very upsetting.