Husband wants to sell my pre-marriage flat to clear debts

[rdsh]

I’m just asking somewhere objective.

I have a flat I owned before I met DH. It is let out and the income is quite good. I do rely on it to a certain extent because I don’t earn much.

DH however wants to sell it: he wants to clear some debt.

I guess I’m just wondering WWYD … I want to keep it but part of that is perhaps because it benefits me rather than the whole family?

So debt wise they are in DHs name but that’s mostly because he does deal with 100% of the finances. I’m not going to claim I’m not responsible as I am in a way, it’s been cost of living and we’re probably both guilty of living a champagne lifestyle on an orange juice budget to an extent. But when we do make a concentrated effort to rein things in it feels like something comes along and knocks us sideways.

So you sell a capital asset, and keep on living above your means. What else will you be able to sell?

This is not the way to deal with debt. Rigorous examination of spending, looking at were you can save, looking at increasing income - these are the things to do. And if your investment property is bringing in a profit, plus capital appreciation, it would be mad to sell it.

Change your lifestyle.

Don't sell a capital asset as it sounds as though you neither of you will have the capacity to save that much for some time.

What don’t you know? Do you know how much DH takes home? If not, can you really not ask him?

You must know what your fixed utilities, insurance, council tax, loan repayments are? Again, ask DH if you don’t have the info.

You think £65k is an exaggeration but it could be he is understating the debt. You need to get to grips with this like an adult rather than wringing your hands and saying ooh, I just don’t know…

We’ve had a few whacks. DH is most probably including the car loan in the £65,000. I don’t know how much it was but probably around the £20,000 mark. And I think that what may have happened is that when he sold the other car or returned it or whatever he did the money didn’t go on repaying that loan but swallowed up in other stuff. I know that isn’t making much sense. And I do blame myself for it.

People have probably guessed DH is a bit car mad, and I do remember that three years ago I was mock complaining as I had car ads all over my social media and I was jokingly saying ‘look, this is what happens when married to you’ and then before we know it we’re buying me a new car. And I should have said ‘no! This is a silly time to buy a new car as I’m about to go on maternity leave and we have reduced income and don’t go it.’ But I did not.

Then DH had his head turned by another car.

Bloody cars.

My new (ish) car is gone now by the way … but is left its legacy. Maybe what I think is DH having a swipe at me is frustration at himself.

@Catcatcatcatcat - I don’t know. I can’t easily get to grips with something that is not mine.

But I have some helpful ideas here and I can feel the thread is starting that pile on sort of feel to it, so it’s probably a good moment to step back.

Not read the whole thread, but if your DH is paying your entire mortgage on his own, then I think it’s reasonable for him to expect you to sell the flat, or pay the rental income towards the mortgage. If you were paying 50/50 in the mortgage, then I would say don’t sell it.

What is the alternative plan to clear the debt?
How much is the flat worth? How much of the debts are related to defined purchases such as the car and how much is just overspending each month? How much is spent servicing the debts each month? How would you compensate for the £400 that you would lose by way of monthly income? What is the longer term plan?
Is it worth increasing your hours now for the pension contributions and other benefits at least, knowing that you then have those hours in the bag further down the line when your DC no longer need as much wraparound care?
Most fundamentally, though, how can you be vague as to how many tens of thousands of debt you are in and not know how it has happened?

So he wants you to sell your flat to pay for his Tesla? It sounds like he's spinning you a line with the 'saving money in the long term' claim. All new cars devalue rapidly, particularly electric ones.

You seem very disconnected from your family finances which leaves you open to being told the debts are all your fault. Your husband doesn't sound able to manage his own finances, never mind yours. I suspect he makes you pay for everything for the children out of your smaller income.

Please stop thinking that because DH earns it’s ok for him to spend. Look at it as contribution.
you are looking after children - it’s a contribution to building family life just like earning money.

the basics of this is that neither of you are budgeting or living in reality. £150 spa voucher when you have 65k debt is just nuts.

if he can’t get his head out of the sand then you need to take on family admin. The person who earns shouldn’t be the person who manages the money just because they earn it. One of you needs to get to grips with this situation fast. It’s doable but it requires discipline and mutual respect. I think your husband is way off the mark and is just looking for easy outs and excuses. Not good for a long term future for your kids. But hey their dad drives a Tesla so it’s all ok.

I hate the idea that childcare should only come out of the mother's wages. Keeping your career going is an investment in your financial future, which should ultimately benefit all of you.

Are you sure your letting agents are offering you the best value for money? For example, it's in their best interests to set the rent high - more commission for them and more finders' fees as tenants leave for a better deal. Whereas if you charge slightly below the market rate, you might attract a reliable long-term tenant who knows they're getting a good deal.

If I were you, I'd want to make an appointment with a financial advisor and see them alone, as I'm not convinced that your husband as your best interests at heart. For example, if the financial advisor did say something positive about the idea of selling your flat, it sounds as though your husband would use that to keep pressuring you.

I'm in the same and only read first couple of pages. I got the impression that DH paid the mortgage and OP kept the rental money to herself without contributing which is unfair. Not unfair using the rental money to top up low income during maternity leave but the thread reads like it's always been this set up, although perhaps I'm wrong.

This sounds rather like the income for the flat in your name is going into your personal account, but you have jointly run up debts through general lifestyle creep and overspending that, for reasons that aren’t that clear, are in your husbands name.

That’s, understandably, bothering him and I imagine your apparent indifference to the unsustainable nature of servicing £65k of debt that, presumably, continues to grow is why he is suggesting such a drastic measure.

It’s boring and it’s tedious but I think you need to go through your spending, throw the rental income into the household pot and come up with with a realistic plan to reduce then eliminate the debt. Keep the flat in your name, but you need to tackle the debt. If you’re only getting £400 or so a month, and have voids as you mention, then the income is almost certainly not covering the interest on the debt, so you do need to take positive action.

Find out how much DH earns (I can't believe you don't know!)
Put all your income into 1 pot. Check how much goes to fixed bills.
Then check how much each one of you spends every month.
You will then have a full picture.
Finally: communicate, communicate, communicate. I can't believe how passive you are. If you don't ask, you won't know.
How old are the kids? Working 2 days a week sounds unsustainable. Full-time would give you more career opportunity, promotion, raise, etc.
If you have 65k debt, you shouldn't have 2 cars, and definitely not a 20k car.

if you can't both sit down and put together a budget and keep to it as @Mosaic80 has recommended then you're never going to get out of the hole you're in.

If you sell the property to clear debt even though you're relying on the rental income, you'll end up back in debt.

You can fix this. Good luck

It is your’s to get to grips with! Why do you think it’s not??! You are a family.
Don’t take a step back just as we are all telling you what both you and DH need to hear.
have you seen any Dave Ramsey videos? Ignore the evangelist and right wing bits (please whatever you do) and listen to how hard-hitting his debt advice is. It’s that simple but very uncomfortable

Honestly you need a spreadsheet and a boring day locked in a room with dh to thrash out the different budget scenarios and reach an objective decision together.

Sure your assets can deliver value long term - but if you can’t manage your debt repayments short term then you have a problem. So that’s what you need to figure out. It’s a case of cold hard facts, sit down and work out where you are now, what goals you need to set for 3 months, 6months and 12 months out

So you’re part time so you can look after your shared children
when you do work you pay childcare for your shared children
you buy most stuff for your shared children
and you’re gonna sell your flat to cover your shared debt.

he’s having a laugh

Do you mean food shopping /clothes etc
Or days out and treats while your husband takes care of financial responsibility for mortgage /bills etc

Even if this feels like a pile on I think you need to act and start by looking carefully at your debts, my gut says £65k could be the tip of the iceberg and it’s becoming unmanageable.

Good luck.

I can see you are becoming somewhat understandably defensive because it can feel like people are starting to pile on.

In practice, you are both being unreasonable. You have abdicated all responsibility for family finances and don't have a clue where the money is going and your husband is also spending above his means by the sound of it.
The reasonable thing to do is to sit down with him. He's asking a huge thing to sell a capital asset which may do you both no good at all. Before you both take such a big decision you need to go through your finances with a fine tooth comb - where is the money going today? Where are the opportunities to cut back?

In preparation you can take a look at your own spending which if you mostly use apple pay should be relatively easy to track if you can say that I took the £400 flat rental income and used it for nappies, wipes and days out. If your kids were in full time childcare there's a cost to that, it isn't "free" if you are doing it.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/budget-planning/

Then I'd build a budget that looks at choices - if you go back to work full-time, what does that do for you both. I know that the answer is that it probably doesn't add very much if anything at all but show willing to consider it. It is a HUGE pressure to be the primary breadwinner.

Your husband may come to his own conclusions re the car. Selling the house that is loss making might be an answer especially if there is equity in it.
Shop around for a letting agent if you have a renewal on the flat coming up. It's a competitive market and people are selling flats handover fist right now. The simple act of checking your current notice period, serving it in principle and saying "I'd like a quote for next year" may drive a more competitive rate on the finders fee and the ongoing % charge.

Lastly, I'm not a property person but with three properties between you there may be an opportunity to remortgage in due course to reduce the monthly payments while the kids are little.

I do have one question - you are concerned about changing schools and wrap around care for your oldest child. Were you planning on only working 2 days a week until both your kids start secondary? If not, a move is coming at some point. If you are, then an open discussion on whether your husband is comfortable with that or whether he'd rather you work full time, the kids are in childcare with a split bill between you and he starts doing a lot more domestic labour including drop offs and pick ups. Be neutral, there are choices for you both here and you may find that the very discussion drives different behaviours.

You could argue OP doesn't have DH best interests at heart. For example, continuing to build up debt in DH name whilst keeping income from a marriage asset to herself.

Perhaps instead of insisting someone seeks financial advisor behind their partners back you should suggest the pair of them seek council from a financial advisor together on how to best manage their debts/income?

It depends on who had accumulated the debts but were the flat owned by the husband and he wanted to keep it as his money the answers would be different!

I’d be holding on to that flat for dear life, but you both definitely need to sit down and sort it out before it ruins your relationship due to stress.

First port of call is probably accepting that no, you can’t keep up whatever lifestyle you currently have. It is what it is.

How old are the children? If you’ve been on maternity leave for 2 years and they’ll be quite young I imagine, will they even care/understand Easter? Is there a need for expensive activities?

If the rent allows you to work part time then the whole family is benefitting. The rent is income that doesn't attract childcare costs.

I actually don't think you have money problems. It looks more like you have "communication in marriage" problems and are both not currently treating your family as a unit that you both equally put effort into and equally take responsibility for. If that is not in place everything (including money) will feel confusing and unfair on one or the other party. Have you considered couple counselling to get you both on the same page?

All the talk about your money and his money is just semantics and is not helpful to how you both show up for your family. Just because you earn less does not mean you have less of a say in decision making for the family, including financial. I bet you contribute more of time in house work and childcare.

You can’t make a decision on whether this is a good or bad idea until you sit down together and prepare a full household budget of all shared family costs and figure out if you can live on it realistically. Interested to know how you are splitting just now as you don’t seem to have a handle on this. Also how much interest (not capital repayment) does the debt cost you and is that more than your income on the flat. If it’s MUCH more you may want to consider the proposal however don’t forget property generally maintain or increase in value whereas cars plummet so I can’t really see a time where this would ever be a good idea.