Husband wants to sell my pre-marriage flat to clear debts

[rdsh]

I’m just asking somewhere objective.

I have a flat I owned before I met DH. It is let out and the income is quite good. I do rely on it to a certain extent because I don’t earn much.

DH however wants to sell it: he wants to clear some debt.

I guess I’m just wondering WWYD … I want to keep it but part of that is perhaps because it benefits me rather than the whole family?

Why does the cost of entertaining the children fall squarely on your shoulders? Is it just things like parking and ice creams? Or are you buying shoes and clothes as well? Are you paying for any regular activities they do?

If you sell the flat to clear the debt, what income will you use to finance days out with the children?

Is there ‘just’ 65k equity? Is he presuming that the entire sum will be family money? Or will any extra be yours? Will he expect that your portion of expenses increases because you’d have this money? Do you feel comfortable just frittering it away and having nothing to show for it?

If your finances are separate and he’s equally as responsible for the debt, and presumably he gets to drive the car, why would you be using your asset to clear his share? He wants separate finances. He’s got separate finances. But it seems when you can make his finances better, he wants to get you involved.

I think you’d be mad to even consider it.

You sound a bit muddled about what is going on, well I get that impression. Not sure what help you can really get from this thread until you are a bit clearer about how you can realistically manage / reduce the debt.

Op..I have the sort of lifestyle you have and overspend on the small stuff. But, 65K of debt doesnt smell right from the small stuff spending.

Before you do anything, I think you and your DH need to spreadsheet everything. He is asking you to make a life changing decision based on incomplete data.

Take a step back, imagine if it was a friend telling you this story, or a work situation. What would you advise?

Hang onto it you can only sell it once, when it’s gone it’s gone. You’ve a monthly income there forever, allocate some of the income to help chip away at your debts.

If debts are several, could you scrimp and pay them off one by one?

Don't sell it, it won't fix your problem. The issue you have is, as a family, you are spending more than you have. This is the first thing you need to tackle.

Returning to work post maternity leave it is very difficult to cover the costs of going back to work. I don't think the cost of childcare and other costs of the younger years should be counted just against your income.

I think you should look at all income and outgoings and whether there are places you can economise or improve income? What form are the debts in, and are there any ways you can reduce the interest being spent on them? Are there any changes coming up? How has spending by both of you changed since you had children? Are there any changes coming up soon or even in a year or two? What can DH contribute in terms of debt repayment/economies?

Think carefully.
Women are so disadvantaged in society because only they have children so they have maternity leave and they go part time as you have done to look after children.

You sacrifice pension contributions as well with been part time and many women have less pensions than men.
Think carefully what you do.

These are both your children you are looking after do not ignore that and do not be sacked into your maternity leave been a drain on finances.

When you sell the flat there is no further income from it. In order to keep finances in the black you have to make life style changes regardless, and are you ready for that?
Have you actually seen the debt in black and white or is this what you are been told?

Don't sell this is yours.
The children are for both of you.
Think do not make any decision in haste otherwise repent at leisure.

@rdsh this is just the tough childcare years that every parents go through.
He needs to forget you have the flat. It’s an asset for you both or a safety net for you and the kids should it be needed.
Sounds like your dh also likes spending money and Instead of reigning in or being a responsible father covering the kids and maternity leave he wants you to cover that .
That’s a red flag . Also he controls the finances ? I’d be asking for more transparency and involvement. Log ins to every account and statements to hand .

You have said he behaves a certain way over finances recently . Be careful he hasn’t changed now you are stuck at home with kids . He may feel he has the upper hand as you are part time . Or lost respect as you aren’t making as much . As a couple you have to ride this period out. He just has to suck it up . That’s what being a parent is.

Don’t sell you and the kids security . Especially not while your kids are young and you are part time .
It would be different if it was a genuine good financial move in the distant future .

@rdsh what will husband be doing ?
You say your money goes out and not into the pot . I take it you mean on the kids . Well that’s just the way it should be . You are married . You do cover costs plus look after the children and home know doubt . So dh can go to work .
You have assets .
You need to ask what does he do ? Also what will he do to stop HIS spending on himself .

Don't give up a source of income and your security to pay off debt. You say you've been on mat leave so money has been tight. Now you are back to work money issues should resolve over time. Agree with DH how you can both cut back to repay debt. Don't sell is my advice.

I haven't read it all but 150 on a spa day for mothers day (that you don't want) when you have 65k in debts is not sensible. I got a £15 plant (I chose) and a card and was happy enough. More open discussions about finances/spending is very required in your relationship.

Hope you are feeling ok today after feeling got at yesterday @rdsh.

Just a quick thought - get yourself a notebook or use your phone and write down everything you spend for the next month. Every penny. Then you will see exactly where your money goes. You could ask DH to do the same if you think he’d be open to it. But if not even if only you do it you can show him what your spending is on. As you say it’s mostly child related and probably household. But it will give you useful information.

I've read through quite a bit of this post and comments. It seems you really don't have a grasp of spending and the actual debt. You cannot entertain selling the flat unless you physically see and understand the debt. First figure out what the debt is. If it is your husbands mostly, then he needs to find a way to pay for this debt and a change of behaviour is paramount.

If the solution is to sell the flat, you will be in a much worse position and potentially in more debt in the future. Keep your flat as that is how you are able to purchase things for yourself and the kids. Don't underestimate the power of having the flat.

You really need to confront everything head on, a lot of information you have shared has been it dribs and drabs. It will make your life easier, if you confront everything head on.

Please tell me he doesn't eat out every lunch time.

Depending on the flat they can be tricky to sell nowadays.

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/news/up-to-37-of-flats-unmortgageable-due-to-charges-mps-told/

Tbh this is not really him being controlling.

You can't run up debt on the family budget, in his name, living beyond your means, while giving yourself extra spends from an asset you won't share. If the roles were reversed here people would be calling you the problem.

@SuzyFandango Have you read the thread? DH is busy indulging electric car/ Tesla wants and is being opaque about finances. OP is feeling guilty about buying extra baby wipes and her flat money is funding child and family costs. She is not the problem here.

OP as you have added further detail during the thread - it is now even more obvious that you and your DH need to sit down and discuss finances. It is easy to see that you are struggling to make sense of the situation when you don't have all the facts to hand. I noticed that you said your eyes glaze over when he starts talking cars and the merits of charging at work and so on but put that one side - he's a petrolhead or whatever the equivalent is in electrical terms! He has an asset that could also be used to settle debts!!
One of my concerns is that you use the income from the flat to supplement your income - that's not an issue in my eyes but it could be. If you are still expected to pay for everything that you do now but with less income is your husband going to give you £400 per month to make up your shortfall? If I've read things right he pays most of the bills and mortgage and he appears to be struggling with that but without giving you the facts to support that but then pays little to do with the family but by agreement you pick up those expenses.
If you do sell the flat and use it settle debts are you going to be saving in excess of the £400/flat income. If you gain by a few hundred pounds per month in excess of the flat income then it may be worthwhile doing but you won't know until you have all the facts. To simplify what I'm saying - you lose £400 income but free up for example £1000 per month in debt repayments then your DH can give you your lost income each month and you can both save on interest/debt repayments with money to spare.
The silly little things mentioned such as wipes/water etc are just habits that can be adjusted but do help in a small way to reducing outgoings. Day trips out don't have to be expensive, take a picnic and only have a planned treat such as ice creams. Forget holidays for the moment and agree with DH that for the interim neither of you buy gifts for each other for birthdays/xmas etc. No big expenditure of any kind without joint discussion first.
But for now your DH needs to stop his snide swipes and sit down with you and talk finances. You may be shocked by what you discover - debt could be more or less than he's indicating or he might be rubbish at finances but you could both learn together so that you both control the finances. Your ability to earn extra needs his input in terms of providing support and childcare when needed because circumstances in the bigger picture are having a knock effect on everyone with the cost of living but these are beyond your control. So you must take control of what affects you and deal with them with your DH in a way you are both happy with.

You can't make any financial decisions without the facts and on the say so of one party in a relationship.

Budgeting doesn't have to be rigid and complicated but it needs doing at least twice a year. Sitting down for an afternoon listing income and expenditure. Once you go through the essentials bills what money is left over for everything else. You will know if your weekly budget for food is a count the pennies, be sensible or anything goes situation. If you know your amount left for extras you know if you can plan an activity that's lunch and ice cream and cake or if take lunch with you. And so on

I don't believe your husband is being honest with you. You do not get into £68k worth of debt buying bottles of water and wipes when you are out. Say it has been accrued over 5 years that's around £1000 a month overspend dependant on the interest of the debt. That's £30 a day over and above what you can afford. This is beyond drinks and wipes. I think he is setting you up to be the bad guy, the irresponsible one who has to find the solution because it is you doing the overspending by being forgetful and not working as much as he is. When it is he that is control of the "family" money and bought a £40k+ plus car which would be in the region of £400 a month through a salary sacrifice scheme depending on the specifics. He might save on fuel by charging it at work but to save £400 worth of fuel a month would be 10,000 miles a month. For context this is the average annual mileage.

I think he knows you switch off when he talks cars and he can get in and do what he wants. You need to start engaging with the finances. You need transparency about what the family can afford and to come up with a sensible plan for the split of family finance.

We have 3 accounts - one joint and two personal. The joint account covers everything for day to day life - the bills, the shopping, the kids clothes and activities, Christmas and holidays. Our personal accounts are for anything that is just for me or my partner. We decide on fair contributions into this account. When we are earning equal with pay equal amounts in when we aren't we adjust it. When I dropped to 4 days a week we went to 45-55 split. I'm out of work at the moment but getting maternity allowance. My maternity allowance goes into the joint account and my partner pays the rest. We have set up payments out of this account into my pension and a regular saver in both of our names. We have a spreadsheet with the rest of our money. We are responsible for what we do with our savings but they are used mostly in the interests of the family.

“Then your DH can give you the lost income” here lies the prickly issue.
So OP sells HER flat, DP pays off the debt that, largely, he has created by buying an out of budget car/s.
Then he hands OP pocket money, for which she may have to grovel & be grateful.
I would absolutely refuse to sell anything without full financial disclosure & joint finances going forward.

You had his kids, sacrificing your own occupational income. The flat is really the only decent bit of money you get - and he’s trying to take that away while simultaneously saying he doesn’t want to do joint finances?

Don’t sell the flat. It sounds very much like he’s trying to back you into a place where you cannot easily get out of (regardless of how seemingly in love and on good terms you might be)

if DH were to cheat, leave ect. You’d have A) nowhere to go and B) no finances to get yourself out.

keep the flat, work on other ways to pay off your debts that he is also responsible for. Don’t throw away your lifeline.

This. All this.

This wise poster has got straight to the root of the problem: you cannot talk to your DH about money, he controls all finances, you are scrimping to buy an ice cream for your children at Easter while he's buying himself a Tesla, you feel powerless re money.

This is textbook financial abuse.

Please do read up about financial abuse as it will really open your eyes.

You are married with children. Every single penny either of you earns belongs to you both. It doesn't matter how much each person is earning. All expenses for the household and children should be joint. There is no "subbing" in a marriage.

Full transparency, open communication and total honesty about finances is the only way to move forward.

If DH refuses to engage in honest communication about money, you are in an abusive marriage and it would be in your and your children's best interests to end the relationship. With the help of an excellent lawyer, you're highly to be much better off if you do.

All the best OP.

Relying on a tenant for income is not really a great bet either, money from rent should be going straight into savings/investments as you don"t know when this income stream could dry up, a money market fund might be a good bet now with all the volatility. The OP MUST get the household spending under control and start paying down their debt, cut up the credit cards if that is what it takes.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/insight/landlords-slash-rents-as-demand-collapses/gm-GM31D42889

Do you get the sense that he sees your flat as a safety net so he just spends what he likes without consulting you because “well we can always just sell the flat?”. If that safety net wasn’t there would he have got the Tesla do you reckon?

For debt of that magnitude I would definitely want to have transparency about where every pound was going. It’s not just his decision.

I have a house I rent out which I bought when I was pregnant to ensure that I could work part time once I went back to work. It supplements my income and I am so glad that I have had that passive income coming in. Don’t give that up for a man who won’t even be transparent about where the debt has come from. And don’t let him gaslight you into thinking that spending on a few days out with the kids makes you as culpable for the debt as his new car habit.