Husband wants to sell my pre-marriage flat to clear debts

[rdsh]

I’m just asking somewhere objective.

I have a flat I owned before I met DH. It is let out and the income is quite good. I do rely on it to a certain extent because I don’t earn much.

DH however wants to sell it: he wants to clear some debt.

I guess I’m just wondering WWYD … I want to keep it but part of that is perhaps because it benefits me rather than the whole family?

Errrr … have you recognised me or was it a genuine lucky guess!? If you have recognised me would you mind awfully just PMing me to reassure me you’re a friend …?

I’m not exactly feeling remorseful. I’m frustrated because I feel a bit trapped in a situation not of my making but I also know that situation is my fault and I probably have spent money like I’m still working full time without children when obviously this is not the case.

So you sit down with him. Tell him your open to possible solutions that may involve selling but you both need to see a full breakdown of all the debts, money you bring in and money he brings in. You need transparency, all cards on the table. and take it from there.

Can you get him to show you the debts so you can see what is on the credit cards / loans / mortgage etc so you have a definite amount and then look at it.

If you are keeping finances separate and doing two days because anything else costs you as much to work as you’d earn then maybe you need to push the rental income as part of your income rather than a ‘family asset’. So the income you earn plus your flat rent (minus what you need to put aside for rates / upkeep / insurance etc) is what you have to spend on what you need - so that’s your salary the same as your husband has his ?

I know you say you can’t budget etc, but simple budget sheets can be printed from the internet to show what you have to pay - rent / utilities/ car / insurances - try to sit down and work out exactly what you owe and put it down. Work out exactly what you ‘fixed’ costs are (they may change like utilities might vary but the costs you have to incur) and then sort an amount you can each spend and do t go over it. If you have £50 for the Easter holidays then when you have spent that on ice creams cafes etc you need to do free parks and take snacks or a picnic. Same with your husband and you when you have Spent your allocation of money on coffees / beer / books whatever you need to stop. It takes time to change your mindset but you can do it.

I always have snacks and drinks in the car - things like the little bags of party rings and biscuits and cheap brand drinks so if we are out and about it’s still a treat without a cafe visit.

Its not easy but you can do it - but you do need to be involved in knowing what you owe not just a random amount he is saying.

Not meaning to sound condescending it’s just a big swap when you have had a salary just to you and now have a part time salary for you and two little ones too.

Exactly - there are many ways to skin a cat and make family finances work but this ain't it OP.

Three, in total @sittingonabeach .

We have

our family home (mortgaged)
flat (inherited)
my old home re DH (mortgaged. This is let out but is not profitable and in fact is making a small loss at the moment. I have suggested selling this one to DH but is more complex as there is a very long term tenant in that one.)

Not necessarily. If its entirely in OP’s name and the rental income has not been used to pay the mortgage on the matrimonial home or any joint expenses then OP would have a better change of keeping it in the event of divorce. A lot depends on length of marriage, individual financial circumstances at the time of divorce, and what the rental income has been used on.

You need to sit down and work out why your joint debts are so huge that you need to sell a flat to pay them off.

Then you need to decide how you are going to adjust your spending to stop the current debt increasing( interest rate on credit cards etc) and how to manage your finances better in the future so that you live within your means.

Then you need to work out how to reduce the debt, using Stepchange or other debt support services if you need to, without selling the flat.

I think in your heart you know that if you sell the flat then ALL the money will go within a short time, because people who build up debts like you and your partner don’t have good enough financial savvy to hang on to ready cash, you will burn through it and then have nothing to show for it except an empty hole where your very valuable asset once was!

If you can’t talk to him about money, and you don’t know how much you have coming in or going out, and he’s now looking for you to sell your asset to cover debt but won’t disclose how much, you’re being financially abused.

Are you struggling to buy daily things because there’s not enough money coming in across you and your husband, or because you’re expected to cover your own costs and your earning power is compromised by childcare?

You need to find a way to have a proper conversation about money. Either everything is in one pot (which really is the only way with kids and marriage) or it’s not. If it’s not, your flat is off the table as far as paying off debt.

In your shoes I’d be telling I need sight of all bank accounts, debt and income. Sit down and do a full statement of affairs (money saving expert has a good format), based on what’s actually coming in and going out. Then see whether you’re both spending more than you collectively make. If you’re overspending you agree together where you make cut backs - it’s not all on you. If you have a surplus prioritise clearing down debt. You agree costs for the kids, personal spending money and priorities.

You can’t make a decision about your flat unless and until you have full visibility over household finances.

In all honesty if my DH wouldn’t agree to that, the marriage would be over.

What other property?

This is an insanely passive attitude for anyone to have.
You really need to find it within yourself to demand information and an equal footing from your DH. If you don't have that, when you ask for it, you are absolutely being financially abused

In fairness @Jellycatspyjamas i do think if I insisted he’d show me and he isn’t mean or stingy, I do think that’s at least part of the problem actually. So for example he bought me a spa day for Mother’s Day - lovely thought but £150 and at the risk of sounding horribly ungrateful and princess like (I am nether, honestly!) I’d rather the money went towards day to day stuff. But I am guilty of the same sort of thing, so I am not trying to be critical, just trying to explain honestly.

The most worrying thing in all of this is that you keep saying you can’t talk to him about it all. If you are married, home owners, and parents to children and have an open, honest relationship you are a team. And a team can talk about things. Openly and honestly. It doesn’t sound like you are a team at the moment. This is a joint debt, a joint issue and needs to be addressed jointly.

If you can’t afford to service the debt, or you are continuing to rack up costs you will need to make a change. It’s either sell the flat (I wouldn’t unless other options exhausted) or cut spending and ideally increase debt repayments.

I would set up a joint Monzo or similar account. Keep your own separate accounts for your salaries to go into.
Then agree:

1. A monthly spending plan which takes into account all fixed costs and has reasonable budgets for food and general spending.
2. Agree you will both pay into the joint account (set up standing orders for pay day) proportionate to your respective incomes and minus each person’s current share of fixed costs like mortgage or children’s school fees etc.
3. use the joint account to manage your day to day spending. In Monzo you can set individual budgets for things like groceries and create ‘pots’ for specific costs like ‘unforeseen appliance breakdown’.
4. analyse your spending daily/weekly for a couple of months looking for places you can cut spending

we have more debt than we can comfortably live with the moment, so I’ve been very carefully managing our spending for the last 5 months or so and it has made a huge difference. We have our own accounts, but I manage the joint Monzo and I watch it everyday. If we splurge on a meal out one day, it’s beans on toast to compensate the next day as I have a daily spending budget. I can also see how much I spend in places like Tesco and is very depressing, but it helps you to target areas of frivolous spending. Still have treats etc. but budget for them. Eg. One meal out a month off set by a few very cheap home dinners as above. I have also looked at all our ‘fixed costs’ and am gradually bringing these down. Have switched internet provider, reduced spending on mobile contracts, now get Netflix through my mobile contract which saves me £5 a month. Each thing is small, but we now have several hundred pounds more a month. I also consolidated our debts, moved any debts from credit cards into much lower interest loans and extended the term of some slightly to reduce monthly outgoings. All planned around getting debt free by the time we have a kid in university.

It was a sort of lucky guess, informed by the mad-goblin-with-green-eyes look that tesla owners get when they see or talk about their Tesla - like they are under some kind of reason-withering enchantment. (I reckon some even talk like Gollum: "My Preeeecious!"

Of course his car is saving money 🙄- just like you having a full time cleaner would be a good economy because you'd save on the cleaning products she brings with her.

And all those baby wipes and ice-creams for the children are just wasting it because they could, well, ... have dirty bums and eat packet noodles. (Do splash out on a packet of wipes for the glove box of the car though. Thinking of the upholstery here ...)

OP you are doing a great job looking after your DC, you have cannily put beneath you a flat from before marriage. You are not the one financially overreaching here.

I don't mean to be too harsh on your DH: we all have things we would love in life. But they need to be discussed as a family and a plan made. You don't just unilaterally get what you want because finances are separate, then shame your partner into selling their asset to pay for it.

I think the problem with the team analogy is it’s a team blaming one another. I do think DH blames me for it; he denies it but I do. That makes me feel on the defensive and anxious.

I would be questioning his numbers here, to make sure he isn’t hiding something else.

£65k is including car, and he also has a salary sacrifice car?!

You sound anxious and defensive.

And no, in answer to your previous question, I am not a friend who has recognised you, but I am very much on your side.

He’s just as guilty in spending money the family doesn’t have here. This is exactly the type of spending that everyone is saying is unaffordable.

No I get that. And maybe he should have talked to me about it but my eyes glaze over when he talks about cars … I do accept that it’s saving money long term because he can charge it at work, there’s a salary sacrifice scheme as well saving in tax and so on. But the principle of the thing grates. Maybe he’d be just as likely to point out that just as I don’t benefit from his car he doesn’t benefit from the flat, except we both do in a roundabout way. And the flat will certainly be useful when children are at university (if they go, of course.)

My situation is different and for various reasons neither of us is keen on full shared finances. What has been a game changer is insisting on a proportional contribution to the joint account from which everything children and home related comes out of. We pay in 50% of our monthly salary each and any surplus is just left there for MOT/boiler/new washing machine or whatever. Before this I found I was actually paying for almost everything, especially when it came to the children.

If the 3rd property isnt in negative equity then perhaps that should be sold, I know you said you suggested it.

I am a bit! I feel guilty, like it’s my fault and my spending and I think it probably is in part … DH may spend but he earns so …

We are good people on every other respect 🤦🏼‍♀️

It's not saving money long term!

How much was his car OP?

i agree with you that it would be more sensible to sell the car than the flat.

It’s a terrible time to sell a flat anyway.

If your debt is joint, then why does he think that selling the place now would be better than the income you'll get from it longterm? Is it that the interest rate is so high that it outweighs all the benefits of rental income?

OP you need to really look at this, it's excellent advice. The main thing for me although I haven't read every post is that you need to find out exactly how big this debt is

I know nothing about being a landlord but would you get more money if you got rid of the agent? You work part time you could take this role on perhaps? As I said I know nothing about being a landlord so maybe this is a non-starter

In all honesty, if we had a debt of the figure you think it is I would want to be paying bits off myself, even if only £20 per month extra. It's how I dealt with our mortgage, just chipping away at it.