Husband wants to sell my pre-marriage flat to clear debts

[rdsh]

I’m just asking somewhere objective.

I have a flat I owned before I met DH. It is let out and the income is quite good. I do rely on it to a certain extent because I don’t earn much.

DH however wants to sell it: he wants to clear some debt.

I guess I’m just wondering WWYD … I want to keep it but part of that is perhaps because it benefits me rather than the whole family?

I would be thinking long term about retirement … I know that seems a long way off. If you’re part time now then your pension is going to be less so is there a plan to rectify that ? I had a flat and I sold it to clear debts , buy a car and contribute towards the stamp duty on a house I was buying with my DH. I have subsequently managed to retire from my main career at 55 but I supplement my income with a freelance role to make up the years I worked part time. If I’d been able to keep the flat I wouldn’t need the extra job.

You're operating in the dark here if you can't even work out a joint budget, as you don't have joint finances. I dislike your DHs attitude - if he is requesting the sale of an income generating asset, without specifying the breakdown of the debt and proposed alternatives if possible, then you are left in a very vulnerable situation. The debt is in his name (regardless of how it accululated), he is being obscure in diclosure but your asset is now being eyeballed to pay for it. Water bottles and baby wipes are not excessive spends in family life. Unless there are €100k cars x 2 sitting in the driveway or some other lifestyle excesses, then your DH is being unreasonable and shortsighted. Or hiding something.

I think you are taking me very, very literally and perhaps I’m not intending you to take me as literally as this.

A weekend job would be minimum wage and would make very little difference and it is unlikely DH would be happy about it at all. Of course he couldn’t forbid me; it’s a free country and all of that, but it would lead to a lot of resentment and unhappiness for us both. So it might be best if you stop pushing that.

How much does he earn?

Are you paying school fees?

No I get that, I just meant if you come from a joint sacrifice argument it will never work so coming from that side won't work. The conversation needs to be how you both tackle it for sure and I absolutely do not think you should sell, just if he's reluctant to have the conversation, if you ask him what he's willing to sacrifice rather than talking about the budget and family expenses I don't think you'll get anywhere even if that's the mindset you need to have internally.

Im a sahm and being sah/very PT ONLY works if all money is shared. I certainly wouldn't sell a flat if I didnt have equal access to ££ but I would if I did (iyswim)

My pension is fine; I haven’t always been part time and I probably won’t always be part time. But thank you.

If he is paying the mortgage it seems that he is probably paying his fair share. All assets in a marriage are shared assets (unless agreed otherwise). If your debt interest payments are greater than your rental income then it makes financial sense to sell. Otherwise keep it, reduce your outgoings and gradually clear your debts.
But either way it needs a clear conversation, agreement, and less of the ‘what’s his is ours and what’s mine is mine’ mentality.

Part of doing a budget is sticking to it I'm afraid. No good writing it all down then ignoring it. If you go over one month, go back to the actuals and the budgeted figures and identify the divergence - decide if it's likely to happen again (answer is probably yes!) or was it a one-off, and update future months accordingly.

You need to go through this process together. It doesn't sound like there is much team work here, which I guess might be why you are nervous about selling your asset. You need to be more involved and both play your part in deciding a way forward.

Does he contribute to the daily upkeep of your children or are you funding this by yourself.

Before you make a decision to sell you need to have a plan about finances, setting up a realistic but more modest budget that you can finance on your current income and fixed outgoings, then look at different options to either increase income or liquidate assets to cover the debts. Reducing outgoings may be a better option than selling an asset that provides an income at this stage of your life. As part of this review you need to ensure you are claiming any benefits or tax concessions you are entitled to and are not over spending on essentials like utilities, tech contracts, insurance and subscriptions - so often as a debt counsellor I’ve found hundreds of pounds in savings with no real pain at all by restructuring these (think people who renew insurance without checking if it’s cheaper elsewhere and paying the inflated mobile costs more than 2 years after taking it out when you can switch to sim only). You can download the worksheet from step change to get the process started, or just a piece of paper with 3 columns - income, fixed outgoings and variable outgoings (which could be reduced)

Don't sell. Once that income stream is gone, you'll never have it again. Debts can be reduced and cleared over a period of time.

It's your decision not his. He shouldn't be pressuring you into selling.

So for example, DH does have a very new (not quite brand new but 2023, I think) electric car. Now that is probably a financially savvy move as he can charge it at work and there’s a salary sacrifice scheme and I get all that but it still does sting that he comes home with a very new shiny car and then despairs that ‘we’ll have to sell the flat!’ and I obviously feel like saying ‘sell your fucking car!’ (I DON’T but I feel like it!)

So for example, DH does have a very new (not quite brand new but 2023, I think) electric car. Now that is probably a financially savvy move as he can charge it at work and there’s a salary sacrifice scheme and I get all that but it still does sting that he comes home with a very new shiny car and then despairs that ‘we’ll have to sell the flat!’ and I obviously feel like saying ‘sell your fucking car!’ (I DON’T but I feel like it!)

He does now because he has to … I just don’t earn enough to cover everything. I used to mostly cover most things (how may times can I say ‘most’?)

Did you guys not talk about the car?

No

Well you're not wrong.
You family finances are a mess but it sounds like you might benefit from some couples counselling to address them?

It became a martial asset once they got married, it’s both of theirs not just OP’s now.

Keep the flat as your asset, in your name in case anything happens.

Pool the rental income into the family “pot” so total is his wages + your wages + rent.

Work out your budget to start paying off debt, it seems as if you’ve both been a bit reckless with money.

Each of you gets equal “spending money” every month.

So you don't have shared finances. You have no sight of the details of the debt because it's in your DHs name. Your DH is unwilling to have a straightforward conversation about it. Unwilling to give you basic details. Unwilling to do a budget with you? You believe he may be exaggerating the extent of the debt. You cover the kids and your costs, including food, out of your 2 day a week employment and income from the flat. You feel disempowered to have an opinion about the money that exists in your marriage which you explain to yourself is because you currently earn less due to caring for children that presumably he fathered by choice. You seem to feel disempowered to learn about money.

He wants you to sell your property to service a debt that you actually don't know exists. Without allowing you to discuss this in an adult way.

Are you being financially abused?

If you sat down one evening with laptop and bank statements and told him "We're going to work together to understand this and find a way forward together because we're married and not two just random individuals that live together", what would happen?

I agree all this. And the decisions taken and the decisions of where to cut back are not all OP's responsibility.

OP re budgets not being very helpful, a lot of people make the mistake of starting with what they "need" to spend and adding it up to a grand total which, i agree, is unhelpful if it exceeds what you can pay.

The type you are needing is starting with a total of what you can afford and working backwards, with things like electricity bills taken out first and cars last. When you get to zero, that's where it all stops: anything else is beyond budget.

Could you both keep a spreadsheet to show all monies going in and out and revisit the conversation in a month’s time?

1. If you have separate finances, then the flat is not his to sell.
2. Selling an asset to pay off debts, when you haven’t tackled the reason behind those debts, will only result in the loss of an asset. You will continue with the unchanged behaviours and be back in debt, but this time with no asset behind you as a cushion.
3. If your budgets “never work”, then you’re budgeting wrong. For example, I could set my weekly food budget at £50, but that’s never going to work and I’m only setting myself up to fail. Think of it more as a monthly spending plan, rather than a budget. “Where do I need my money to go until I next get paid?” Easter holidays aren’t a surprise—they happen every year. This needs to be part of your spending plan. The Budget Mom (YouTube) and YNAB (You Need A Budget—app and YouTube videos) are excellent resources for setting up monthly spending plans.
4. If DH doesn’t agree to/won’t adhere to a monthly spending plan, he doesn’t get to sell off your assets.
5. Is DH paying his fair share of nursery fees, or are you expected to shoulder the whole cost?