When the joint finances suddenly aren't so joint after you've raised the kids....

[RachelBee]

Hi

Would be great to get some advice regarding finances.

My husband earns a very good salary and as his income has increased over the years I left my career and found myself taking the lead on childcare (including covering all the holidays), sorting out all the household jobs and admin, looking after his accounts for a few hours a week and taking on some relatively low-paid part time work so I can have some income.

We have a joint account but as it's my husband's earnings I try not to touch it. I have dipped into it every now and then but it would only to sort out something for the household and for the children.

We were talking about getting some financial advice so we could plan for the next few years and he made it clear that the money in the joint account was his as he had earned it. I was talking about getting a couple of ISAS - one in each of our names with some of the savings sat in the joint account - but he said he would only put one in his name not mine as I hadn't earned it. I felt rather shocked by this. He has also told me that he would only meet a financial advisor without me.

I've also been getting incredibly frustrated at not being able to make decisions about the house as I don't earn the money. We really need to update our house a bit. But he always says no.

I feel like such a fool. I'm always overdrawn after the school holidays and today he asked me how it felt to be my age and to be overdrawn. It felt so humiliating.

I would love to earn what he earns and to call the shots. I do try to see it from his point of view and when I do I can see I probably look like a freeloader.

I have two more teens to go and in the next couple of years I plan on returning to work full time and to earn my own money. I don't at the moment as I still have to do the school run (we live in a small village) and I still cover all the school holidays. We have no friends or family around to look after the kids. And I thought we have enough income to allow me to be here for the children.

So...I guess I'm asking for someone to tell me if I need a reality check.

Are there any rights about this or should I seek a financial advisor myself.

Is this common after women begin to reach the end of their child caring years and haven't earned much?

I think your husband will be in for a rude shock when he visits the financial advisor.
Keep suggesting that that is a good idea for him.

You make an appointment to see the same financial advisor a week or two later and ask about your best options. Take all your own figures etc re hours worked for the business; you you don't need to have husband there with you.

I assume from the fact that you’ve been doing the books that DH (short for D-Head) runs his own business. In the divorce ensure that you get half the value of the business that you have financially contributed to through your free labour, in addition to half the pensions, house, investments, cash in the bank, cars, and anything else of value that is owned by you as a couple. You are entitled to this. Start taking copies of EVERYTHING, including historical financial and tax records both personal and business. Get what is owing to you, don’t let him bully you out of any of it!

Divorce him, take 70% of his assets and go back to work.

You could even get some of his retirement money.

He sounds awful.

You need to get legal advice. I’d stop doing his accounts unless he is going to pay you for this and look at increasing your hours in your part time job if possible.

Divorce divorce divorce...

He is a cunt, he's showing you he is a selfish greedy cunt and please stop thinking of yourself as a freeloader.

Could he have achieved the career progression and earnings he currently has, without you managing his children, his finances and his house?

The very short and simple answer is 'fuck no'.

I wouldn't cause any hassle with fighting him, just get the paperwork sorted and boot this ungrateful ballsack out of your life.

Let him think you've been put back in your box - and then at the right moment, empty half of the joint accounts into your own account, serve him his divorce papers and tell him to go fuck himself.

You have been utterly exploited for years. He has made it impossible for you to work, as he has refused to do his share of any parenting and housework, whilst simultaneously using your skills without paying you.

Your rural location has compounded the issue, as you can’t leave teens at home day after day each holiday with no access to frievds/activities.

He has used you op. To facilitate his career, life and children and now your mothering days are coming to an end he is discarding you effectively.
I agree with op there is a possibility he is ring fencing now with a view to a possible separation. Or an intention to give himself a free option.

I would be incandescent in your position but you need to be smart. I agree transfer the money if you can. Shut down his protests and hire a financial investigator and a lawyer. You are being both financially abused and harmed by his actions.

You can serve divorce papers once you have have confirmed your position, that might be the wake up call he needs - or it might expose his intentions sooner than he planned. Everything you both own is half yours op.

He is openly mocking you and has zero respect for you. You need to protect yourself, he is not a good person at all.

Oh and don't expect a good proportion of MN to understand the practicalities of living in a rural area where there is one bus a week to a town no one really wants to go to, taxis to anywhere are not a thing, no one delivers takeaways and to get anywhere you need to be happy to walk 10 miles or need a licence and car. There a lot of folk here who haven't ventured into the british wilderness and cannot imagine something they haven't personally experienced.

I agree. Our village hasn’t had a bus service for years. There is nothing for miles. What on earth would her teens do day after day for the entire holidays if he is totally unwilling to help during the holidays, that will be a huge problem even on its own. They will become very lonely and isolated.

He has effectively trapped op by refusing to assist her to work by not doing any parenting whatsoever or caring for his own children, house, admin and accounts, and then he threatens to stop work if she tries to work herself. He is openly abusing her. He has set up a scenario where she is struggling for money and to fund the basics, whilst he keeps all of the marital money, unpaid by him for her work and she is even overdrawn. She has no financial autonomy at all within the marriage.

It’s a game of power play and he is enjoying letting her struggle, knowing her options are just so limited, having devoted her life to supporting him. It’s pure abuse.

Dear @RachelBee, please ignore those ridiculous PPs hounding you about working more and earning more. Yes, it's a great idea to start invigorating your career prospects but the main point is that you're married to a selfish, grasping character who doesn't have your interests at heart or care much about his family. And you are probably not going to be married to him in a couple of years' time, so get ahead of him!

I like the idea of shunting some funds into a personal ISA. Check this with a lawyer if you're anxious about it, but I'm pretty sure you're entitled to do this. The fact that he's lied to you about only being allowed one savings vehicle says everything, doesn't it? He's prepared to cheat in order to keep money away from you. And he's contemptuous of you, as you can obviously find out for yourself easily enough - he doesn't care, he'll just say anything to try and stop you.

You sound very strong and sensible. I hope you won't let these nitpickers feed your self-doubt and undermine you.

Love this as a starting point but couldn’t get past his attitude and it would be the end for me.

You do need a lawyer.

I feel strangely irritated on your behalf
when he asked how it felt to be overdrawn at your age I hope you said it was because he wasn’t fairly contributing towards the costs associated with his children during the summer holidays
Are you saying that you have been doing one or two days work in his business without receiving wages from that business
I understand that the children although not children still need lifts/picking up etc but they do have a father and he should have been doing his share
Do you feel as if he loves you at this point or even likes you - how do you truly feel about him
Does he engage with the children
Do you do things as a couple
It sounds like he has devalued you and your contribution over the years (and made you feel that he and his contributions are worth more) whilst he has taken full advantage of you being there to do the bits that he doesn’t want to

She has been working and helping the husband with his accounts as well as running the home and looking after their children. What an absolutely ridiculous thing to take from this post.

The ‘bits’ he doesn’t want to do - mainly the donkey work of giving birth to and raising his children , cleaning his house, washing his pants, cooking all of his dinners, doing all of the admin and shopping, doing his business accounts whilst he plays at being the big man and has sex when he feels like it too. Whilst leaving her penniless. Truly hideous behaviour.

Well, the good news is he’s shown his hand now and who he really is so you can make a plan to take him to the cleaners. I’m sorry the person who is meant to love you is treating you like this though, how upsetting. It’s horrible to discover that while you’ve been an active team player this whole time the other party has just been in it for themselves.

Also, some incredibly outdated and misogynistic comments on this thread. In what world is raising his children (not to mention the physical undertaking of being pregnant and boring those children) not a job or pulling your weight? It’s attitudes like this that embolden men like OP’s husband to financially abuse their wives.

I don’t have any children, but my partner and I are a team- there have been times when the other has had to leave their job for various reasons and the other has supported (both emotionally and financially) because that’s what you do when you’re in a team. I couldn’t imagine treating the person I’m in love with like so transactionally- I’d want to support them where I could.

^ this.

Raising children and housekeeping is a paid career for thousands/milliomd of nammies and cleaners around the would. Just because op isn’t invoicing him for thousands each month doesn’t mean she hasn’t worked her socks off, it just means she is doing a huge amount of unpaid labour.

When men start acting like this there’s often another women in the background whispering words in his head

he probably feels entitled to an upgrade

as he’s self employed expect him to play dirty if you divorce him

so get every copy of his tax returns

his bank statements
bank accounts
this should be easy as you have been doing his accounts for him

@RachelBee very surprised that he didnt put you through the books! the tax bill would have been less. suggest you no longer do his business accounts and hopefully he will get himself in a muddle. at least you have a vague idea how much money was going through the business. he may very well have other account which you dont know of. he may even also have other property which you dont know about. start having a search now. look in safe at business also if you can.

A lot of valuable advice in this thread. Of course you’re not a freeloader. He’s only been allowed to earn that money as you’ve been looking after the children. I’d transfer half into your own account. Then see a divorce lawyer. Get a copy of everything he earns etc

it’s disgusting he’s treating you this way.

Personally, I'd see if you could take out 1/2 of what is in the joint acct. Because it IS half yours.

Listen to the above posters. They really are quite good with advice.

If you feel he might have hidden investments and finances from you a forensic accountant may be a good idea.

In order to fully protect yourself you are going to need some funds, so transfer the money - it is your money anyway, and start taking his contempt seriously. It’s giving you the strongest message possible that this man does not have your back, worse than that he is actively harming you.

You need good legal advice. A record of exactly what you both own and a cold appraisal of who he really is op. I can’t imagine what would happen if you became ill/disabled or otherwise vulnerable.

This sounds a good idea. Then start applying for jobs or. Can you work from home?

Your dh can sort school run. Surely you are back by 9 - you could work part time or full time tbh.

But you need to talk to your dh.

I would not be doing the accounts anymore. One thing if you pool your money (even then not ideal as you say you feel like you cannot use it freely) but if he views his money as his own then he can pay you to do the accounts. Also bet it was his idea to move rurally...

@RachelBee younhelp with his accounts? He’s taking up valuable time that could be spent working so invoice him for your help?

id you didn’t help him with his accounts what would happen?

How are your finances managed generally, @RachelBee?

Are you able to buy things you want for yourself, clothing, make up etc?

What about the food shop? Does your husband ask you to justify every penny you spend, for example?

If you are talking about investing in an ISA each I’m assuming you’ve got significant savings yet your husband doesn’t pay you for the work you do for him?

Is he a very high earner and is he a higher rate tax payer?

Whose name is the house in and are you/were you ever on the mortgage?

Could he have money stashed away that you don’t know about?

He is the one who should be ashamed for allowing you to be overdrawn after the school holidays while you’ve been the one looking after your joint children.

You need to seek legal advice as he is (possibly) financially abusing you here.

He isn’t going to do the school runs or 50% of the holiday care, ever! he has no intention of losing the unpaid servant/housekeeper/manny/chaffeur/book keeper/secretary and cook he has for free allowing him to enjoy his life and pursue his career. He threatens to resign every time op mentions it.
He likes having his cake and eating it, and berating op as she sits there eating his stale leftovers and she is paying for the privilege.