When the joint finances suddenly aren't so joint after you've raised the kids....

[RachelBee]

Hi

Would be great to get some advice regarding finances.

My husband earns a very good salary and as his income has increased over the years I left my career and found myself taking the lead on childcare (including covering all the holidays), sorting out all the household jobs and admin, looking after his accounts for a few hours a week and taking on some relatively low-paid part time work so I can have some income.

We have a joint account but as it's my husband's earnings I try not to touch it. I have dipped into it every now and then but it would only to sort out something for the household and for the children.

We were talking about getting some financial advice so we could plan for the next few years and he made it clear that the money in the joint account was his as he had earned it. I was talking about getting a couple of ISAS - one in each of our names with some of the savings sat in the joint account - but he said he would only put one in his name not mine as I hadn't earned it. I felt rather shocked by this. He has also told me that he would only meet a financial advisor without me.

I've also been getting incredibly frustrated at not being able to make decisions about the house as I don't earn the money. We really need to update our house a bit. But he always says no.

I feel like such a fool. I'm always overdrawn after the school holidays and today he asked me how it felt to be my age and to be overdrawn. It felt so humiliating.

I would love to earn what he earns and to call the shots. I do try to see it from his point of view and when I do I can see I probably look like a freeloader.

I have two more teens to go and in the next couple of years I plan on returning to work full time and to earn my own money. I don't at the moment as I still have to do the school run (we live in a small village) and I still cover all the school holidays. We have no friends or family around to look after the kids. And I thought we have enough income to allow me to be here for the children.

So...I guess I'm asking for someone to tell me if I need a reality check.

Are there any rights about this or should I seek a financial advisor myself.

Is this common after women begin to reach the end of their child caring years and haven't earned much?

Why would she want to stay? Most of us treat our friends with more respect and consideration than he treats his so called life partner. Let a judge decide if “his savings” are all his.

How can he not see the value of your unpaid work? In addition to childcare, you're saving him the cost of a part-time accountant!

And about saying only one ISA per household...he's either stupid or he's lying. The 'I' literally stands for "individual".

I'm sorry you've had such an awful realisation about your 'D'H.

What a git.

Clearly his marriage vows are meaningless to him.

Intrinsic in the entire concept of marriage is that all "worldly goods" are shared. This is what creates the stability that one member of the couple can focus on creating the home (and often rearing children) without each individual having to focus on selfish self-advancement.

If the money-earning half of the couple focuses on selfish self-advancement and doesn't share, that's as much a breaking of the marriage contract as having an affair.

@RachelBee to clarify - when you say you “look after DH’s account” do you mean you’re working as an accountant for DH’s business? 1-2 days a week, unpaid?

I think people misunderstand or miss this part entirely! Unpaid work of course also means that you’re not receiving any paid leave, employee benefits or pension contributions from your “employer”.

So you work:

• 1.5 days (average) as an accountant
• 3 days (?) in a paid job

Plus it sounds like “D”H also takes no responsibility for childcare and housework? So add to that cleaner, taxi and childminder/nanny.

Might be interesting to do some sums.

Make him pay you market rates for the work you do on his accounts. If possible back date the bill for work done in prior years. If you can't back date, charge premium rates going forward. Working for him removes your ability to work for someone else and you should be remunerated for that. Your time is not free.

You really don't t need to be out of the workplace with teenagers.
Either insist that he splits the school runs or look into them cycling/getting bus/car pooling.
It sounds like you need to get some financial independence back, and the longer you leave, the harder it will be.

First post nails it. He’s shown his hand. Whether that is a slip up or he is using it to assess your reaction so he knows how far you can be pushed is hard to say.

We always treated everything as shared income - I sometimes ended up with extra free spend money after a big bonus but we both got a share

If you left him half that money might well become yours anyway and then he would be much less well off

he has lost sight of the benefit of partnership

Get a job. It sounds rude but sorting childcare and school runs is half his responsibility. For various reasons I had over 6 years out completely plus a number of maternity leaves in quick succession. I’ve been back in work full time 4 years now (and have both teens and primary aged children). Last year I earned more than double what I ever had prior (and significantly more than dh who had a job the whole time). Don’t be reliant on someone else for scraps.

I feel like such a fool. I'm always overdrawn after the school holidays and today he asked me how it felt to be my age and to be overdrawn. It felt so humiliating.

I hope you answered the only foolish thing I have done is to be blind to what a selfish inconsiderate prick you are for so long.

So... i don't think your teens need you there to pick them up. You say the bus is expensive but how much would you earn if you were working compared to picking them up? You would earn more than the bus fare.

Stop doing your husbands accounts for him. Tell him you will do them but you want paid - on the books.

Stop doing the school run - tell your husband its his turn as you are going back to work.

If you do his accounts for him you see how much money he is bringing in which you will need if you go to a solicitor about divorce.

If you aren't going to divorce him I suggest the following

• He pays you the going rate for the work you do for him, or he can pay someone else to do it
• He pays for taxis for you dcs as and when they need them
• You go back to work and keep every penny for yourself and get yourself in a good financial position

My dh and I always earned similar amounts for years, sometimes I earned more, sometimes he did. We have separate bank accounts and always have.
A few years ago he changed industries and tripled his salary, meanwhile mine has stagnated.

He has taken on all the bills, pays more of the mortgage and as he now has tapering ability to pay into his pension with the tax benefit he effectively pays into mine. He fills up ISAs for both of us every year.

We now have a joint slush fund account which we both top up regularly, much more from him than me, and I can use as I need (we use for holidays, big expenditure etc)

This is how joint finances should work! He is acting in an underhand way and I presume he is not aware of the 50/50 split of finances which would happen if you got divorced or he wouldn't be bullshitting about ISAs etc. I am slightly suspicious he has something going on which means he might be thinking of leaving tbh, though that is purely speculative, obv!

my friend is in a similar position. Her DH has loads of money, she doesn’t even know how much he has in accounts but in excess of 250k. She has zero say in how that money is spent, apparently it’s for retirement, even though he has a good pension and good income. Friend doesn’t work, and could as DC are older and DC old enough to come home alone. I couldn’t be in that position. I’ve always worked post kids, and couldn’t be in a relationship like this. Half of it is yours in a divorce, same as for my friend. He doesn’t want to forget that.

RTWT! She has a job - two in fact one she is paid and the other is unpaid!!

Withdraw half the money and open an account of your own .There are instant access that pay a reasonable amount of interest - eg you can open an Revolut account very easily.
Use some of it to see a divorce lawyer.
Get paperwork for all your and his assets including pension.
Beware that divorce is expensive and you need money to pay lawyers sad o you must have instant access to an account in your own name.

He has you completely where he wants you!
You don’t get a say because you don’t contribute enough financially, you don’t get paid for two days very real work for him, that is one of the things preventing you getting paid work for more hours so the pattern continues.
He would not have had his career without all you have done, therefore you do have a moral and legal right to spend the money.
You have built up skills through the accounts work and all the organising you do. You could look for a job using these, possibly as a business support in a school which would let you work term time.
You might consider presenting this as a financial spreadsheet costing the options out for him. If you divorce the court will decide a settlement and you will be asking for half of house, savings and pension, he will responsible for half of the costs of child transport and for organising it, he will have to pay for his accounts being done. If you return to work now full time he will lose your free accounting services, you will need to get a cleaner and he will have to take responsibility for half of child organising. If you stay and continue as planned moving towards full time work you wish to be paid for the accounting hours and you need to be given full access to joint accounts. If you want your marriage to continue hopefully the potential cost of divorce will make him see reason and be willing to change.
If you stay I think you need to take a different mindset, if something needs done in the house, don’t ask permission, get some prices and ask which option you should go for.

OP can you find full time work at a place that allows flexible hours? So you could do 10am-6pm for example and still do the school run in the morning. Your wage needs to be number one priority right now so you can look after yourself if he does try to screw you over.

Absolutely stop doing accounts unpaid. And tell DH he needs to now do 50% of cooking, cleaning, childcare etc to enable your earning the way you've enabled his for decades.

Draw up how much it would cost him to pay for wraparound childcare / taxi transports to school, a cleaner, a gardener, an admin assistant. He can pay you that to boost your income or pay to outsource so you can go back to work.

In the meantime gather all financial information you can & look at what you can do to get yourself ready to return to work FT.

No, I do not think this is the norm for people in your position. I think he is financially abusing you - happy for you do do his accounts/sort out logistics with school runs etc but ignoring that you are PT to enable this. I don't think either of you have discussed this enough over the years and the implications.

I'm about the same age as you and have always worked (teacher) part-time like you, covering the vast majority of all house admin/cleaning/child related things and DH has always worked FT (earning multiples of what I do). I still work part-time even now DC are young adults, that is in full agreement with DH - mainly as teaching FT is not 40 hrs/week during term time but even so.

Not once is 20+ years has is ever made any comment about the money being 'his' because he earnt it. We have always discussed finances/financial planning a lot - and had multiple discussions about me being PT (and varying that) over FT at various stages (especially with regard to pensions). The conclusion has always been stay PT due to the advantages this gives our family. DH spends quite a lot of time on it (key aims retire early/give DC a really good financial start/make sure I have plenty of pension money if he dies first) and we use professional finanical planners too.

I would tell him I have been thinking. As you say the money is yours I have nothing and you mock me about going overdrawn so moving forward I will bill you proportionally to our wages the costs of the kids food and anything else you pay for

i would tell him you are speaking to a financial advisor to find out how much you saved the family by working less so no childcare costs which also stopped you progressing at work so you expect to work out what savings you could have had and he can pay that

then u would be telling him you are looking at going full time now and getting your career back on track so you have some funds behind you. Once full time all bills and costs will be shared proportional to salary and he will have to also do some of the school ribs or childcare will have to be paid for

If you're not going to move half the money - and I understand why you wouldn't because shit will blow up and out might not be ready for it - make copies and records of EVERYTHING, now, this second. Record your work for his business.

Genuinely have you read the thread? He threatens to resign every time op raises the prospect of contributing to childcare, housework etc.
Do you think she can force him to do his duty as a parent? Cook a meal? Clean the loo? How do you suppose she enforces it?

First thing that I would stop would be doing his accounts.

He's talking bull about one ISA per household.

TBF I read some replies on MN that are to quick to advocate getting out of a marriage but in your case your DH seems to be incredibly controlling and selfish, he doesn't seem to even want to discuss anything about the situation with you.

These are husband DC too, has/does he contribute to them, money/taking them out/buying them things/driving them anywhere/looking after them?

But if I mention that I get a lecture about how important his job is or that he'll just pack it all in and I can work and we'll have to sell the house.

This sentence would have me giving him an ultimatum, and I don't usually do ultimatums.

Yes, fine you're prepared to do that unless he now starts 50/50 with all childcare, think how much easier it'll be if your DC lived in an area where they could travel independently, see friends more often
You could possibly find a full time job and control the household monies and your DH can either become the unpaid one being made to feel worthless, or you could decide that this life isn't really the one you want to live and leave him.
He's having a hissy fit and using pretty much blackmail by saying that.

OP on a side note some people on here don't seem to understand that living in the back of beyond means exactly that. Where I live there's no buses, shops or pubs, it's rural in every term.
Most people that move here do it knowing the trade off is being taxi for the kids until they pass their driving test.

Hi OP,

I have only read your posts so I know that you have also reached the conclusion that your husband's attitude to "his" money is not ok, and that other PP have already pointed out that may be hanging around until the kids are older before getting on with "his" retirement planning.

I would suggest starting with The Rights of Women site - assuming you are in the UK. It is a great starting point for finding out about your rights as a spouse, a parent, and a home owner/occupier, especially in the case of divorce.

Obviously you should get your own independent legal advice, tailored for your specific situation, but they have guides that will lay out the starting point in law for any separation.

In order to "get your ducks in a row", you need to start documenting, photographing, emailing, copying, or squirreling away - whatever this looks like for you - any important ID, marriage and financial documents:

• marriage certificate
• birth certificates and passports for yourself and the kids
• as many payslips for you AND your husband as you can find
• employment contracts
• bank statements, ISA statements, pension statements
• tax declarations if relevant
• details of any inheritances or lump sums entering the household
• details of any investments of placements if relevant

You don't need all of this to get advice, but it is certainly helpful to have a rough idea of where you stand financially as a household. I do not mean to sound so mercenary, but he has already told you that he does not consider your sacrifices to raise your shared children or to run your joint home as "work" or to have held any value in his own advancement, so I'd be past talking to him.

As an FYI, and because it is something that I admire in my own parents; they always shared finances and childcare, and money has always been an openly discussed topic. My dad worked FT shift patterns, my mum worked PT then FT and retrained in her 30s to change career paths. Either/or was around for childcare and they had a joint account until one of my mum's employers insisted on a solo account to pay salary. It became the family joke that dad's money was house money and mum's money was her own - although he says, "she took me on holiday every year, so I don't feel too hard done by". They are now retired and continue to share everything equally.

I am very sorry that your DH does not see your family/work life as a similar collaboration.

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/family-law-information/a-guide-to-financial-arrangements-after-marriage-breakdown/

Is he self employed? Presume there is a lot of work if his accounts take that long? And could his business afford it if it was paying you to do? I think you should stop doing the accounts or check what it would cost him to get them done by someone else and charge him the same. If you are good at the accounts/bookkeeping and find it interesting could you take on doing accounts for other businesses and do it from home? My DM had a job like this - very flexible. Or how easy is it for you to pick up your former career and is that something you would want to do?