When the joint finances suddenly aren't so joint after you've raised the kids....

[RachelBee]

Hi

Would be great to get some advice regarding finances.

My husband earns a very good salary and as his income has increased over the years I left my career and found myself taking the lead on childcare (including covering all the holidays), sorting out all the household jobs and admin, looking after his accounts for a few hours a week and taking on some relatively low-paid part time work so I can have some income.

We have a joint account but as it's my husband's earnings I try not to touch it. I have dipped into it every now and then but it would only to sort out something for the household and for the children.

We were talking about getting some financial advice so we could plan for the next few years and he made it clear that the money in the joint account was his as he had earned it. I was talking about getting a couple of ISAS - one in each of our names with some of the savings sat in the joint account - but he said he would only put one in his name not mine as I hadn't earned it. I felt rather shocked by this. He has also told me that he would only meet a financial advisor without me.

I've also been getting incredibly frustrated at not being able to make decisions about the house as I don't earn the money. We really need to update our house a bit. But he always says no.

I feel like such a fool. I'm always overdrawn after the school holidays and today he asked me how it felt to be my age and to be overdrawn. It felt so humiliating.

I would love to earn what he earns and to call the shots. I do try to see it from his point of view and when I do I can see I probably look like a freeloader.

I have two more teens to go and in the next couple of years I plan on returning to work full time and to earn my own money. I don't at the moment as I still have to do the school run (we live in a small village) and I still cover all the school holidays. We have no friends or family around to look after the kids. And I thought we have enough income to allow me to be here for the children.

So...I guess I'm asking for someone to tell me if I need a reality check.

Are there any rights about this or should I seek a financial advisor myself.

Is this common after women begin to reach the end of their child caring years and haven't earned much?

The issue is some jobs are big in every sense of the word, and require a woman or man to be extensively travelling or working very long hours - someone has to pick up the slack if you have children! Hiring a nanny 247 is certainly not cheap. Not all roles have flexibility which is why they are so well paid. There should be a prior agreement that each will be equal in the team - and their responsibilities. Both have equal say over finances. It can work but only with transparency, mutual respect and equal distribution and access to the full family funds.

Op’s set up has been dangerously one sided for decades. She is the junior role and he is the decision maker. Subservient to him, she is very exposed.

💯

He has nothing but contempt for you

You should break down how much childcare will cost if you work full time. And tell him he will be paying.
I hate men who dont realise raising children is a full time job . And you doing that means his money is not used for nursery/nanny or childcare in anyway.
The lack of respect for you is awful.
Did you mean you have 2 teens from previous relationship?

Get your ducks in a row before you say/do anything. As you have been doing his accounts you have access to all his financial- info - make sure you have copies of EVERYTHING from when you've been together.

I think he's actually planning on leaving you when your youngest finishes school. As he's seeing an FA now I'd wait patiently for all the info to come out when you're prepping his accounts. Do you see letters from other financial institutions you know nothing about? He could be hiding things, too.

I'm really sorry he's so vile.

OP.. why are you always overdrawn? Doesn't he contribute to household costs? He really has become a manipulative bully, hasn't he. I agree with previous posters that you need to be reminding him that in a divorce you would be able to get a very healthy chunk of "his" money. I'm sorry OP, but I think he's paving the way for a split at some point. You are not in a loving marriage. It should be a partnership, working for both your futures. Sharing finances and decisions about . Also, why the hell aren't you paid for doing his books?? That really needs to stop right now!! If you didn't do it he'd have to pay someone else. Are you afraid of him OP? How would he react if you put half of the savings into your own name? You are perfectly entitled to. Please do it. And remind him you'll get a share of his pension in a divorce. Time he was bluntly brought back into the real world. You seem like a loving caring hard working mother. You don't deserve this gaslighting bully. Start getting ducks in a row OP.

OP, I don’t think you’re a freeloader, you clearly don’t spend your time sitting around. If I were you, I’d stop doing his accounts for free immediately. Either demand the going hourly rate for an independent accountant/payroll person, or just refuse to do it, let him pay someone else and use the time to up your part time hours. He needs to take some responsibility for ferrying the children around, and for pick ups and drop offs too. You clearly can’t wait another three years until the youngest goes to university.

It’s too late now, but I think it’s worth saying - women need to be strategic about life choices because you have no idea how long you can rely on your partner paying for things. It’s not just that he might do what OP’s husband is doing now, decide only his contribution matters and that ‘family money’ is actually his money. Other things you need to consider are when making life choices that limit your earning potential are - what if the higher earner dies? What if he has a car crash and is disabled, and can no longer work? Don’t move somewhere where your children will need ferrying around when they’re teenagers, don’t decide it’s cheaper not to use wraparound care so you’ll stay part-time when they’re in primary school… it might be cheaper in the short-term, but the eventual cost to your earning potential, to your mental health, to your pension and savings, could be far higher. Never put your career on hold assuming someone else will take care of you long-term.

Most mothers take a hit to their career by going on maternity leave, by going part-time when their kids are in nursery anyway - it’s almost expected and of course it does benefit the children to have someone at home some of the time. But why compound this hit by continuing any longer than you absolutely have to? That benefit has to be weighed against your own future, and you need to minimise your time out of the workforce if you want long-term security.

I agree, but I'd move the money into a single savings account or ISA first - then have the conversation you said.

What a vile man. I can’t even imagine a world where I would tolerate being belittled about being overdrawn.

id be getting a lawyer and screw him for every penny.

To be blunt- the obvious and quickest financial solution for you is divorce.

If you don’t want the nuclear option- job hunt and give him information on what he is now doing in terms of school run, accounts etc. Say why plainly.

Does he pay you for doing the accounts?

You don’t look like a freeloader only he seems to think that. Your married shouldn’t this be equal. Why has he allowed you to become overdrawn. Why isn’t he helping you out more financially? Have you heard of financial control? It’s interesting that he isn’t helping you financially but he knows you are restricted with work because you still need to be around to transport your teens. I would have moved somewhere that allows the teens more independence op. I think you need to go back to work properly he can pay for a taxi for the teens?! For school run and obviously he will agree to move?! If no you need to be very careful and start protecting yourself.

appologies as i’ve not go time to read this and the
replies to after school but first few replies nailed it and i hope you’ve listened! Lawyer (before he does) and then divorce and take as much of “his” money as you can.

we have no family, i’m a sahm and haven’t earned in 14 years (plan to to retrain next year when youngest in high school and school runs stop) he has been able to build a successful buisness (i used to earn more than him) as i have did every school run, club drop off, parents evening as well as the shopping, cooking & cleaning & he works & thats it. I didn’t plan to be out this long but life happens but “his” money is 100% our money. He covers mortgage, bills etc and then has more free money to spend on what he wants where as i buy myself nothing unless i need it (currently need shoes as my converse have holes lol) he tells me to spend what i want from “free” money but i feel guilty and only tend to spend £4 on a cofffee every so often. Kids do clubs and get new clothes etc covered by him and my pension is topped up so i’m not as vulnerable as a lot of women (have saved some of it too) but i know my situation is a bit extreme and not the norm. If we divorced i wouldn’t be going after everything but i do believe he would be fair but who knows.

If he ever told me it was his money, left me over drawn or laughed i’d be looking to get out. That part is not right you are a team and have taken on a different role to when you worked. You don’t contribute finanically but in other ways like saving “him” money on childcare etc. you will be entitled to more than he thinks. Will read the rest properly in a bit but didn’t want to not reply first even if it means missing updated etc. good luck and please try to move forward without him - you are worth more than that!

I am so angry on your behalf OP. It has been fine for you to give up decent earnings in favour of low paid work when it suited him to still be able to work as normal but now the children are older he is re-writing history and deciding that he resents this.

Almost every day you can see young women falling into this trap on here most of them unfortunately unmarried (as Men seem to have done a good job convincing a lot of women that marriage doesn’t ‘mean’ anything).

This is why I have never gave up my earnings, I trust my DH but I can’t see the future and will always protect myself.

If you are married OP you have rights, I would divorce him and let him see how well his ‘I earned it so it’s mine’ take on things stands up (spoiler alert - it won’t)

@RachelBee since the 1950's, feminism was hijacked somehow by internalised misogyny that meant people somehow did not view housework as work. So, these days, while you are free to choose full time work, nothing you do for your family counts as work any more.

Germaine Greer said 'every working person needs a wife' and went on to clarify that it shouldn't matter if the 'wife' is male or female, what a working person with a family needs to survive is another person to support them, cook for them, sort out the house and raise the children while they work. If feminism had succeeded, men would consider 'wife' to be a valid, valuable role in society, and one that they were prepared to do.

The law, thankfully, agrees with me, in that if you stay, your misogynist husband will continue to devalue the huge amounts of work you have done and continue to do for him and his children. If you divorce, your work will be financially recognised.

It's quite something when divorce law is more of a feminist than Mumsnet appears to be in places on this thread.

I don't think the op getting a full time job is going to fix this marriage sadly. She's unlikely to be able to earn the same as her husband so he will continue to throw that in her face. He has also made it clear he won't pick up any slack. This is not a good man. I imagine the marriage has worked this long because the op has put him first and enabled him to do exactly what he wants.

I think the op should get a job for herself though so she is in a good position if she decides to leave.

All the people who are saying the op is some kind of freeloader for not working full time are missing the point. It sounds like her DH has never raised this as an issue. He's been happy to have his little house elf beavering away taking up all the slack. He just doesn't want to give anything in return. If he had a problem with it he could and would have raised it at the time. There's a reason he didn't...he wanted the op exactly where she is now. Feeling powerless.

This 👆

I haven't read the full thread, but o. P, if you are doing 2 days a work every week for him. And he is self-employed, he should be paying you for that. If only to take advantage of your no tax allowance of 16K ish.

I think you should provide him with an invoice for childcare, cleaning, admin and doing his accounts for however many years! What an idiot. You shouldn’t be running into an overdraft when he has plenty of cash. You’ve not been doing nothing. His comment to you was cruel and shows little recognition for what you have contributed to the family and how it has positively impacted his career. I’d start digging a bit now and speak to a lawyer. Your post focused on the money issue but his behaviour toward suggests that maybe things are not ok in other ways. I think you should start thinking about your options.

Look to rent a place near the DCs school (sorts the school run) and get a FT job whilst divorcing this man. He won't be looking out for you in retirement, so you need to get moving on looking out more for yourself.

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/financial-arrangements-on-divorce-1.pdf

Move half the money in the JA to your own individual account while you still have access

LTB. Quickly!

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/

You don’t have to explain yourself re work, the bottom line is the man is a finincial bully. So what if you have only worked part time? You’ve given up a career to make his life easier! You’ve done your best for your children. I have done exactly the same as you. As many women and mums have. I start a full time job again in October after 16 years of part time self employment around my family ! But I have full access to all our finances. We definitely wouldn’t be married now otherwise. He sounds like an absolute prick your husband and you will be better off without him. I’d rinse him for every penny and say swivel on that !!!

He sounds horrible, and I wonder if this rural living was an attempt to isolate the OP for control.

i have a question though, to those saying ‘invoice him for housekeeping/childcare’, couldn’t the DH counter invoice for the mortgage/bills/food etc he has covered on OP behalf?

I’d be careful about alerting him by invoicing and moving money - get your ducks in a row first.