Current society not conducive to childrearing (if you don’t have family wealth)

[Tryingmybest2keepsane]

Hi there,

I guess this is more of a venting post if that’s allowed, but helpful feedback also welcome. It’s also super long - so a big thanks to anyone who makes it to the end!!

I’ve just found out I’m pregnant after trying for over a year and a previous miscarriage. The delight has quickly faded into panic as we’re now getting real about costs. It’s looking like things are going to be more than tight - probably going to have to get rid of the cat kinda tight. It’s so depressing and is what had led to me being on the fence for ages. Not because I didn’t want kids but because despite both of us working full time with a current take home of just under 5k, it’s still not really doable without major pain and sacrifice. (Before everyone piles in and asks for a full breakdown of costs, I’m not going to do that as I know we already earn more than some and there are things like pet insurance or having 2 cars that can be cut back. The point is that not everyone has to go without to such an extent and that the added stress and insecurity makes everything so much harder. No wonder so many split up within the first few years.)

We felt so lucky to get on the housing ladder after years and years of slow saving (where the housing market kept moving the finish line as deposit amounts needed shot up). We’re now in a 4 bed house (bought for £345k earlier this year) in a moderately priced part of a northern city - the mortgage is currently £1660 a month for 24 years. We needed a 4 bed as my partner had two older children and we knew we wanted our own. We also had to buy in this area so his kids could continue at their current school and within a short distance to their mum. (We have them half the time). We both wfh for some of the week, although that is likely going to have to change as we’ll soon be out of space.

We both come from pretty impoverished backgrounds and it’s that lack of a safety net that scares me. Growing up I lived in over 20 properties - some emergency housing - between the ages of 2 and 16, after which I moved in permanently with a boyfriend to escape the chaos at home.

I’m 38 now and have worked so hard my whole life since 16, going back to school as a mature student in my 20s while still working part time and working through the summer hols while my peers took unpaid graduate placements. There was considerable childhood trauma to overcome.

I know we can’t afford 2 kids (and he’s clear even 1 was almost out of the question), but to consider not having a child due to financial reasons when I’m working just as hard or harder than anyone else seems deeply unfair. I’ve managed to claw my way out of childhood poverty and and am the first and only in my family to have gone to university (UCL! still my biggest achievement!), but it seems no amount of ‘hard work’ can ever make up for a general lack of family wealth.

Unfortunately, circumstances are made worse by there being no maternity top up from my employer and no grandparents living nearby.

I fully realise that my situation is the sum of all my life choices - I could have picked a richer partner or a better paying career for instance, though I’d probably be deeply unhappy as I’ve never managed to feel an affinity with people from wealthier or more stable backgrounds. Similarly, with work, it’s only since I’ve switched from corporate to something more community focused that I feel any sense of satisfaction.

The main kicker is the cost of nursery or childminding fees alongside a hefty mortgage and our usual monthly outgoings. OH says he’ll just have to get a second job and I’m sure we’ll manage to scrape through. But I’m really sick of hearing how well off other people are or how they were helped by parents or an inheritance windfall (all our parents are in social housing/renting). Yes, I’m resentful! Yes, I blame rampant inequality and capitalist greed! It will mean the end of some friendships as it’s not good for my mental health to hear how easy others have it. I’m having a big whiny moment and I know I’ll get over it. But equally I’m sick of pretending like everyone is in the same boat, because we’re not.

So if you’re also out there feeling disillusioned and overwhelmed by our current system - please know you’re not alone. Id also strongly encourage you to get involved with affecting systemic change however you can - whether that’s through community work or politics. I realised after meeting an old friend I’d not seen for a while that power and money corrupts and distances people from the realities of life. She used to seem quite empathetic and open minded, but now works for a big 5 management company and is due to make over £800k once she makes partner. She casually shared that she can’t understand how people become homeless and I literally had to explain how easy it can happen. It really saddened me as I realised so many are protected from knowing just how tough life can be.

If you’ve made it this far, thanks for listening x

You're not your.

Is he your husband and if not does his will leave you anything?

What do you think about the UK having one of the highest costs for childcare in the world?

Would have loved it to be cheaper! But then caring for one’s precious children ought to be better paid imo so there’s no easy answer. Childcare costs were the equivalent of my salary for several years, so I’m talking from experience here! I played the long game and always stayed in my line of work (as opposed to working evenings/ weekends around dh to avoid childcare) which put me in a better position for promotions and regarding my pension. But it was damn tough.

I agree with you entirely @Tryingmybest2keepsane

You said current society was not conducive to breeding. I'm simply saying that every time before this was harder and yet our species has persisted for millennia so your thesis is gash.

Do you think the government should be doing more to ensure that families can access affordable childcare without it being so tough, as many other countries, inclining ones considered to have the best outcomes for children, manage to do?

I just feel that much of this thread is “boiling frogs” - the blind acceptance that it’s incredibly expensive so let’s focus on something else - lets kick the OP rather than rail against the government(s) who have created this system.

I've lived a few places - there's pros and cons everywhere - childcare is expensive in the UK, but you're not paying hundreds each year for school equipment, 60 quid for a doctors visit, income tax is lower, council tax includes things like rubbish, banks don't charge for an account (often), dentist is free for children. My experience is that over time, it all largely evens out between countries

For example lower priced childcare will likely come at the expense of higher ratios and higher income tax - since people do need to be paid - I don't mind that - but if I'm paying more income tax, then I'll be paying that the whole of my working life, not just when my kids are young, so is it cheaper for me? Dunno.

I think two children is fine for a family, I certainly don’t support societal change in order to allow people to have a third, and yes, this is a third child for your family unit. I reserve my sympathies for couples who can’t afford one or two to be honest.

Just to echo - a really good post with practical advice, Thanks

Governments are not in a vacuum though are they, they are voted in.

So the public gets what the public wants. As they say.

Yes, indeed.

I don’t know, I guess I’m just surprised the way this thread went with everyone blindly (to me) parroting something that really is outrageous.

Might seem insignificant to you op but why on earth would you get a cat you were planning to discard as soon as you got pregnant?

Only panicked once she got pregnant about money. Didn't do the sums.

I would echo GiveUpFinally’s post.
Tempting as it is, nearly every item you buy for a new baby is used for a few weeks or months and then ends up redundant.
Decorating a nursery is such a waste of effort and money. Babies really don’t appreciate the latest trends. Better to go with a fresh coat of paint that can be added to as they grow up. You don’t need changing units, dedicated nursing chairs, baby baths, multiple prams and push chairs.
Buy well, buy once. I had a state of the art quality pushchair system with a decent carrycot that doubled as DS’s cot until he was 6mnths old. I sold it on to someone who travelled 100miles to collect it, because it was a premium but practical brand. It was immaculate because I looked after it and because it was so well made.
I bought very few baby clothes and when I did it was from Tescos or Asda. My DSis also haded down a steady supply of gender neutral stuff and useful gadgets. They were well used but still perfectly functional. Baby stuff gets so little use so unless it’s from a large family it usually has plenty of use left.
I was given a baby bath but never used it. I bought a cheap and cheerful sling for the bath. You can buy ultra cheap hand towels, they end up ruined so there is little point in spending money on them.
NCT used to hold regular second hand sales in our area where you could sell and buy.
You can be cheeky and ask for vouchers or money rather than gifts. You end up with some beautiful but impractical cloths. I received one or two really useful outfits that DS wore repeatedly but most of the outfits were worn on once or twice. Alternatively ask for receipts so you can exchange for baby grows, which are probably the most practical items of clothing ever invented.
The only thing I would invest a lot of money in is a really good washing machine. My old one gave up the ghost not long after DS was born and we replaced it with a Miele. 21 yrs on it’s still going strong. Along with a heat pump dryer, you will rarely have to iron anything again. If you are returning to work you need to make the everyday jobs easier.
Unfortunately becoming a parent does mean that you have to make changes to your lives. Unless you are in the top few % of earners it is always going to involve compromise. But becoming a mother does alter your mindset. You will happily wear a pair of jeans until they fall apart if it means your child’s doesn’t go without. We all start off thinking that it won’t change things but it does.

How many people of your age (with young kids or looking to start a family) have financially benefited from inheritances from their parents? Realistically?
Surely that’s something that people of an older age group would experience? We were in our 50s and had almost paid off our mortgage, for instance.

Your partner is already raising two kids. How many is he planning on financing?

Myself and my dh earn around 5k we have 3 kids and a four bed house. We dont have nursery costs anymore thankfully but these days we have around £500 spare per month. We tend to buy clothes from Vinted. One holiday a year. We have two cars and a dog. We do nice days out and weekends away.
Your house is a big mortgage for your level of income.

I would change to a 30-35 year mortgage term for the short term to bring the monthly costs down now whilst you need the money. (Yes this is possible). Then in a few years you can overpay or reduce the term.
Sounds like you are comparing yourself to families who are having their first child. You & your partner are already supporting the costs of two children so it’s not the same as comparing costs to a family having their first child.

“accepting his lot as a single parent”. So all people should live out their years alone if the first relationship breaks down?

This is the tired argument everyone in a second relationship trots out. No, for the millionth time, no adult needs to be alone and not in a relationship. But children really, really, need to not live with people they aren't related to. So people should have partners, yeah, but not blended families. Really not ever tbh.

Yours might be the massive outlier, OP, with kids who genuinely love you after 10 years and really want a stepsibling. It might be the case. In the vast majority of cases it isn't.

And yes, you've given 10 years to bringing up his children. But you've clearly only done it because of the future quid pro quo for you. Again, if you can afford it and really everyone is happy that is your business and good luck to you all. It just seems bit rich that you're doing something broadly selfish then complaining about the expense of it.

This seems pretty extremist. Loads of people love their stepparents/stepkids. And it also puts adoption out the window.

Adoption failure rates are a lot higher than people would have you know. It will be interesting to see how surrogate babies get on in the future too

Adoption is better than being in care.

Why? A failed adoption is worse than stable long term foster care.

Well of course it is. But this thread isn't about adoption, it's about whether people who already have children should have more just because they want them. If you're adopting and have existing children you consider the effect on them a great deal. And there is also the benefit to the adoptee in the mix.
If you just meet someone with an existing set of kids and fancy having some more with him, you are thinking to benefit nobody but yourself, even though it's really easy to dress it up as something everyone would like.
I know it isn't totally black and white but overall this is the principle, I'd say.
I'm not expecting everyone to agree necessarily.

What research is that please?