DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

What is it you would like to change?
Are you unhappy that you don't have enough money? Or that he criticises your spending?
I would say if it's that he criticises your spending that perhaps he has a point? You have a huge amount of disposable income and yet still spend it completely. He probably feels a lot of pressure to keep on top of the family bills and savings. Do you talk about long term financial goals/saving?

If it's that you don't have enough money that isn't true so I can see why he doesn't engage with that.

Does he have a lot of disposable income?

I'm not really sure what you want to achieve with this thread. He's not financially abusing you, he's keeping on top of all your family bills probably because he's concerned that you don't budget well, therefore doesn't want bills to go unpaid. It better that you run out of money for ice cream than the mortgage.

You need to address this with him. Seriously. Along the lines of:

"So, you're happy for me to cut my working hours (and own career future, pension, personal security) because it means YOU don't have to do as much with your own children, but at the same time, you think it's okay to get constantly angry with me when I spend money on OUR home, OUR children, OUR needs and grill me about every single purchase. This is not acceptable and our marriage will not survive your attitude or treatment of me every time I go shopping, take the children somewhere, or need to replace items for the children. Or myself for that matter. Unless you honestly think I should be dressed in rags, shoes with holes, and the children in clothing that doesn't fit them properly.

So either I go back to work FULL TIME, and you do HALF of all pick ups, drop offs and sick days, and HALF of all the household and administrative and appointments for everyone, or you find a way to cope with your controlling attitude and accept that I am an equal partner in this marriage and I have only our best interests at heart, both emotionally and financially and labour-wise."

You must address this.

And make it clear your marriage will not survive if he doesn't stop this behaviour.

Because it's grossly unfair to you to be treated as if you're trying like this.

Op

i feel for you it is so expensive to take the kids out these days and it soon adds up

your story reminds me of a pp the husband was so greedy he absolutely hate taking the kids to do activities hated buying their shoes and even resented them going on school trips

ot was awful but that poster didn’t have her own money

I guess your husbands father was a greedy selfish man too

watch out for your son becoming just like him as that is how these greedy misers replicate!

Maybe I misunderstood one of the OP's posts but that's what I'd read it as. She pays for food if she takes the kids out for the day.

“greedy selfish man”
I feel like I’m in a parallel universe with some of these.
OP spends nearly 30% of their high take home income, £1,700 a month, on days out, kids clothes and a couple of top up shops. For a 4 & 1 year old.
She also thinks her DH should contribute more.
And the DH is being rinsed for being greedy and selfish.

im a bit baffled by this thread.

Agree with this. Not sure if you have factored in that op receives £450 a month from her rented property @Thisismeme. The op and her husband were earning decent salaries yet have zero budgeting skills. I don't think you're going to tackle this until you have a have equal fun money, and put the rest into a joint account for ALL joint expenses come out of. This includes childcare, children's activities, food and household expenses, but NOT haircuts and personal spending.

I pay for childcare and children’s activities. He pays for the rest.

OP covers this on 2,450. The childcare is £800.

I could do with him paying for a bit more.

The way I see things is, you are either in a financial situation where, e.g. if you spend £100 on a coat, that means you have to decide to spend £100 less on other things in order to stop running a monthly deficit, or you are not. If it's the first situation, I can understand a discussion about all discretionary spends.

But if it's the latter, I don't have much patience with discussions that are just about ultimately whether you die £3 richer or not, or why £40 shoes not £10 shoes etc

He does sound an arsehole where money is concerned. I would refuse to justify grocery spending if he doesn't like it he can either do it himself or come with you and see for himself how much stuff costs. Twat.

The thing is, you’re quite determined that I have profligate spending habits and I don’t think any explanation is going to satisfy.

Children eat, we also obviously need things like toothpaste, laundry, cleaning products. Clothes and shoes. Childcare, hobbies. But - no matter. My main issue is residing debt anyway.

Is he refusing to pay for the kids activities etc?
You may have separate finances but if he earns double what you do then he should pay double towards to children? If he can't handle that then 50-50 at the very least.
Can't you just tell him, ok I paid for swimming and soft play this week so your paying next week?
Expenses around the kids are not solely your responsibility.

Does he know you have debt from when you were on maternity? Did you tell him you couldn't make ends meet on maternity pay or did you keep quiet and go into debt?

If you have never told him I can imagine him wondering why you can't manage on your salary now and thinking you are profligate when you are just struggling to pay off the debt. How much do you owe and what are you managing to pay off each month?

I tend to agree.

We have semi-joint finances I would never have salary paid into joint account. But basically DH does the bills and I buy everything for the kids, pay for holidays, most of the grocery shopping.

I think maybe the difference is the ‘loan’ bollocks - if DH needed more money I’d just transfer it and vice-versa. Plus maybe the OP is left with a lot less if their mortgage is low. My DH likes to control ‘bills’ and I’ve always let him crack on tbh.

I couldn't live like this. And I think what he is doing is financially abusive. There's no such thing as "your money" and "my money". You're married. Your money belongs to both of you.

You have £6450 coming into your household every month but you are only in control of £1200 of that (your £2000 earnings minus the £800 childcare). And of that £1200, you have to pay for everything else the children need and justify every penny. You have to take "loans" from him if your hairdresser moves an appointment because your access to funds is restricted. This is really quite shocking to read.

I wouldn't have a man treat me and my children this way. I'd spell it out for him one last time, that he needs to stop hoarding marital assets and cashflow and behave like a married man, or he can be single, you'll have half the house and he can pay you through CMS. He sounds unbearably selfish and miserly.

But the debt is the same problem, that you do spend too much. The debt comes from excessive spending from mat leave.
Since you currently spend £1700 on a 4 year olds hobbies, clothes and days out for 2 young children I can see why you went into debt on mat leave. Your joint income is not high enough to spend that much in a month on miscellaneous spending.

How much debt do you have? How much do you pay per month? Does your husband know it did you take it out without his knowledge?

I personally think it’s stupid to have separate money while married anyway but some people do and ultimately that’s their decision. I don’t understand how you can go so far into debt while on a teachers maternity pay plus £450 a month and be covering small expenses and personal spending while off. It’s not like he made you pay half the bills while on a reduced income! If you don’t have the money you just don’t go for lunches out and loads of treats while on maternity leave, most people live like that. You don’t take a loan out to fund frivolous spending while on mat leave!

So his “ inability to undertand “ and his “ idea that you are on the verge of ruin “ and his constant complaints are working out very well for him, aren’t they ?

You @imsureiusedto pay all the costs associated with having children .

maternity leave
going PT to reduce childcare costs
loss of pension and promotion because of the above of being on the mummy career track
nursery fees and later out of school childcare fees

Meanwhile he gets to stay full time, get promoted , stash away money into his pension.

He pays towards an appreciating asset ( the house , his pension) and you pay revenue costs like things for the children.

He gets to do all the high status, well paid and pensionable work and you get to do all the low status, no pay and no pension work ( housework, wifework and childcare ).

He gets to criticise and control you through money while you don’t know how much he earns and saves.

He is not accountable to you in any way but he excepts you to justify buying soap powder.

THIS ^^ is the HUGE inequality in your relationship and it’s no wonder that any love you ever felt for him is being slowly destroyed by his selfishness and exploitation of you.

THIS is what you need to address- not the price of ice creams or soft play. You are being ripped off by him to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds.

He is distracting you by picking fights over pennies while he steals hundreds and thousands.

And now you are talking of reducing your working hours !!! Do not even THINK of doing this while you are in an unhappy and precarious marriage to a very smart and selfish man.

Yes it would be great to set up a joint acount for all joint costs - which is the house and the children and all costs for them both. To which you would contribute in proportion to your salary BEFORE pension costs ( women always make this mistake BTW ).

Yes it would be great if he paid half of the costs for Maternity leave, instead of you actually paying him.

But none of that is going to happen with him - you’ve said this several times.

So you need to get your shit together about money REALLY fast. Because once you split up, you and your children are going to be struggling financially.

Men like him don’t have their children 50:50 after the divorce - they have them for a few hours once a month.

They hide their assets in the divorce so you don’t get a share of his pensions and savings .

And they don’t pay child maintenance - it’s very easy to avoid or reduce your payments to a very small amount.

@Cerialkiller has good tips for what to do in the short run.

Now OP has said she's a teacher, that also changes the finance picture somewhat as it means a large saving on holiday childcare when the DC get to school age.

Not read whole thread but perhaps he should have a go at looking after the children at the weekend by himself - or take some days off work. Is he happy to take them to the park, the library, to free places and pack a picnic? Or would he find it easier to sit at a cafe and pay for lunches. Similarly would he like to spend the whole day entertaining them (not just with screens, but with a range of activities, or would he appreciate paying for a soft play session/parent and baby group, where the children would get some stimulus with other and he could sit back a bit?

Similarly he can go round the shops and pick stuff when their clothes need replacing and/or find gifts if they get invited to parties. (Important to note, if he buys stuff that is at a bargain price will it last until they grow out of it. Or not.)

I think that will give him a much more realistic picture of what sort of spending is needed on children.

He pays towards an appreciating asset ( the house , his pension) and you pay revenue costs like things for the children.

But if they split up the OP would jointly own the house and would have claims on his pension,

The finances of married people are never separate.

Why are you paying for the childrens’ things - they’re his kids too ? He sounds like an arsehole.

I'm really struggling to follow this OP.

If you are paying for things like laundry detergent, how does he know you spent £15 on it in Tesco's (you said he challenged you). If you're paying for all stuff for the kids, why did you charge M&S lunch to his card? He paid for your new shoes - does he normally cover your clothing? Why would he be covering yours and not the kids?

I'm really confused by what you're paying for and what he is. That's really key here - on the face of it, it's sounding like you are over spending because if you're not paying for any of the household basics, or your own clothing, then I'm not completely clear what you're sending over £1,500 on a month, to the extent you don't have £100 left at the end of the month. However, if he's watching your spending on your own accounts and questioning you over £15 in Tesco's that's a different ballgame here.

I note you say you have debt built up during maternity leave. Is that taking a massive chunk out of you income (like more than £500 a month?).

I agree. Maybe if he also went to the supermarket he'd have a better grasp of what things like washing powder cost.
But you really need to thrash this out, and to do so you have to have a conversation that doesn't end in accusations. I know that's not easy, but at the moment you're just going round in circles.

Stop being so nice to him.

Next time he says “fifteen pounds at Tesco!” Look him straight in the eye will a blank face and say “Divorce is more expensive.” Then walk away and let him think on it.

Dont justify it and don’t entertain his drama.