DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

Why do you have to pay for the DC stuff? Are they his DC?

Teacher. There’s a shortage so go for it!

OP, if you own a property outright could you not move there with the kids? If your DH is paying the mortgage on a house that you share, but he isn't sharing in anything else, then keeping that roof over his head benefits him more if you see what I mean. Sounds like you might as well be a single parent.

I couldn't live like this. It may be understandable if you were living on the breadline, but it doesn't sound as though you are.
All the costs you mention and having lunch out sometimes with the children are part of every day life and just having children. It's what makes life enjoyable and fulfilling and it's what one works for.
It's only going to get worse as the children get older with more expense and hobbies and activities.
I think I would have developed the ick by now.
I'd suggest some counselling together to look at the issues and try to work out some financial agreements. I'd also insist that he laid his finances fully on the table, and all of your, and his outgoings. If he's not willing to do this, I'm afraid I'd seriously consider separating.

He's a twat. That's all there is to it.

You don't though. Don't justify it. Just say "yes" in a flat tone and walk off. If he pushes it then tell him how tedious it is that he questions you over a Tesco shop and that you want it to stop.

He might try to get you to justify it but you don't have to.

Have you told him that you would be financially better of if you divorced and you wouldn't have him treating you like an employee and being controlling about money?

It could be worth pointing it out to him.

There is no painless way of sorting this out.

What's it worth to you? Are you up for some rows and unpleasantness? Possible divorce? Or would you rather suck it up for a quiet life?

FWIW I sucked it up for many many years before cracking (XDH was also emotionally manipulative, sexually controlling and a general arsehole). Much later on therapy helped me understand why I put up with it as well as why he was like that. Too late though.

DH and I share all finances - it was a dealbreaker for me. And I was the higher earner.

This is the whole problem in a nutshell. Is the issue that he'd prefer you in full time work with the same spending power as you had before, and kids in full time childcare? If so, who does he expect would be responsible for paying the childcare? If he thinks it would be you then you'd have to think carefully whether you should stay with him. Tell him that. And that if you decided to split he'd either have to give you a payment towards their upbringing each month, or if 50 50 he'd have to pay for half their childcare.

He just. Isn't. Getting it. Spell it out to him.

We don't know if she would be financially better off if they divorced. If 'her' fully paid off property is worth more than 'his' mortgaged family home she might end up having to pay him some of the value of 'her' property when they do the legal separation of assets, savings, pensions etc.

IHRTFT does you DH contribute anything to joint costs? Groceries, food etc?

But changing your hair appointment shouldn't be a problem, as you paid him back asap. It's like he just wants a stick to beat you with...
It's petty and small minded of him.

If you’re working 3 days a week childcare will come to around £900 depending on funding. This leaves you £1550 to spend on the kids and your own expenses. This is almost £400 a week which is huge. You should be able to manage.
For context for one similar age child I allow £80 a month for softplay or swimming etc and £100 for larger days out. For myself I have £150 a month. Whilst I’d like more I don’t feel hard done by and my child does a lot - normally one or two soft plays a month, one day at zoo or theme park, lots of trips to parks, regular swimming and semi regular gym classes

Nah, I'd throw the blank shopping list pad down at him and say "If you think you can do a better job of it, then off you go!"

I suggest you RTFT.

@Thisismeme No one should have to ‘manage’ - the OPs DH isn’t contributing to any expenses for his own children.

But it's not 'his' mortgaged property, it's the marital home and belongs to both of them? If he didn't buy out her share, then the house would need to be sold.

Then the week before pay day my hairdresser asked if I could change my appointment. DH ‘loaned’ me the money so I could go. I transferred it back but I knew it would set him off again and I was right, so I wish I’d just said no I couldn’t make it.

If you can’t afford a hair cut just before payday without borrowing the money then I think perhaps your DH has a point. Sounds like you are living pay cheque to pay cheque based on that.

@imsureiusedto

As, shall we say, 'dissatisfied' as you are with the financial issues you're currently having, why on earth are you reducing your hours even further? TBH I'd be increasing them because I would want to know that I could leave at any time if things didn't improve. Because IMHO, they won't, and they'll probably get worse. And when that time comes you aren't going to want to be scrambling to find a full time job.

DH and I have joint finances, always have, and down the years there have been some 'tiffs' about spending (he's the 'spendy' one, I'm the thrifty tight one) but we've always managed to compromise and now after 38 years, he's a little tighter and I'm a little spendier. I think the problem with separate finances is that because one doesn't really see the other's financial incomings and outgoings, they can assume that that person is 'spending us into the poorhouse'. With joint finances you have transparency. But with a DH like yours, I'd opt for separate finances. Would he consider a joint account with a proportionate share from each of you for main expenses (mortgage, regular monthly bills, childcare) and then the rest stays separate? That way he could see that the money is 'going where it should go'.

It's wrong for you to be shouldering the child-related costs all on your own. It may be financially better for you but it cements the mindset in him that the children are 'your responsibility' and that carries burdens in time and money that should absolutely be shared. Too many women get roped into this.

I'd really be pissed off if I had to 'conceal' what I was spending from my own money because my spouse thought I was spending too much when what I was spending was for our children. But how is he seeing what you spend if you're using your own account? Do you show him receipts or something? Because I'd tell him it was none of his business unless he was contributing to it. And if he didn't want to contribute, I'd tell him to buy his own washing powder. And he can wash his own damned clothes whilst he's at it!

You don’t think paying for the majority of their living costs is contributing to the children?

OP you seem determined that you are not subject to financial abuse but listen to all the posters on this thread- yes you are! Either you accept this financial abuse - in denial of it or not, or you do something about it.

I understand you are saying currently all forms of a spreadsheet approach are not going to work. Honestly though, why would it? He currently has everything his own way.

If you don’t want to threaten divorce, how about the following: You explained that prior to children you had a career level similar to his. How about saying you are sick of being treated as a second class citizen, are not willing to put up with it and if he won’t behave as an equal partner financially you state you have no choice but to go back full time / 4 days per week to your previous level of responsibility in order to level up your earnings so you are not reliant on him sharing earnings in any way. He can continue to keep things financially totally separate as this is so important to him.

He can then either go part time (I.e. take over your current lifestyle) or you split everything 50/50. This means mortgage and bills but also 50% of household chores and 50% of childcare costs / childcare including over the weekend.

Take the everything stays the same option off the table. He can then decide what he is prepared to give up in order to avoid a spreadsheet.

I cannot imagine ever having to pay my husband back for something, we’re married, it’s a partnership, we share costs. We don’t share costs equally because he earns more than me but I work less to look after the children, probably I spend more money on me, I buy more clothes and I have long hair that requires shampoo, conditioner, products and styling, whereas he has (almost) no hair, but there’s no tit for tat. Small children are expensive unless you want to live like a Victorian mill worker.

Is he paying all food? I didn’t notice that. For us the kids costs and food is way more than mortgage and bills.

If he doesn't provide the receipts, he doesn't get OP to fund her third of what he has paid for. OP provides her receipts and he has to pay his 2/3s. So it's in his interest to provide the receipts or he doesn't get paid. Like submitting your expenses.

@MadinMarch I didn't word it well as I used value when the correct word is equity in each property. If the marital home only has £100k equity and the property she owns outright is £300k equity, then sharing both would mean she needed to give him £100k. Obviously we don't know about their pensions and savings but she could be in a position where she is forced to see what she calls her property to give him £100k.