DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

The lack of communication is the biggest issue. It's not JUST about the money. Unless any of us have heard the conversations, we don't know who the bad communication is stemming from. According to the OP it's from her H. In which case, this will grind you down. The resentment won't magically end. You will get more and more wound up, while he has no idea, until one day you snap and leave.

Give him the chance to make it right. Ultimatum? Letter? Counselling? Some way to get him to realise how serious you are.

Your DH isn’t a demon, but being 'impossible to talk to' to the extent that his life partner just gives up is a serious problem.
Why won't he change, or even discuss changing, the way your finances are run? A relationship is supposed to be about working together, and that often involves discussions, transparency and trying things out.
No one should just have to 'put up or shut up'.

Yeah, that's true. It depends what OP was buying really. It sounds like she buys household items too and food which can be expensive.

I think OP has a spreadsheet covering her own earnings and spending.

She doesn't know exactly what her husband earns and spends.

You are not a partnership and seemingly don't want to be so why not just leave? Tense houses make unhappy kids. You can't hide it from them, they'll sense it.

You don’t actually.

I also timed things badly by having a midsummer baby. So I had full pay when I’d have been on holiday anyway!

Then I had 50% for three months, so about £800 (maternity pay was based on my earnings 22/23; we had a pay rise when I came back.) Then SMP. I don’t think I was in terrible poverty but it was far from a lot of money. I’m sure I made mistakes but I’d probably make them again tbh. I really don’t regret that year; I won’t do it again and it was and is very precious to me.

I don’t know what he spends in day to day. I know what the normal outgoings are; mortgage etc.

I actually do get how you feel about the money and all I can say is my DH is also odd about it but I pushed it and pushed it and eventually he admitted he was scared of it and didn't know how to decide financial things. So I just took most of it over.

It's fine to have enjoyed your Mat leave Op

If your DH didn't know and you didn't ask him for help it's a bit of both here
Avoidant/Avoidant

This is precisely where your partner should have stepped in and helped you. But you both need to talk about money.

Yeah, op people aren't saying you shouldn't have taken your mat leave and enjoyed it, but in a partnership, especially with a high earning spouse, you should not have had to go into debt during it.

Yeah I agree, she did nothing wrong to have enjoyed her maternity leave. She should have felt comfortable to ask her DH for help.

Thank you for answering those two questions @imsureiusedto.

I can imagine that your DH doesn't understand why you are running out of money at the end of the of each month when you earn well. But he doesn't know about the debt, probably doesn't do enough grocery buying to understand how the volume of groceries has increased now you are 4 not 2 and probably isn't fully aware of current grocery prices. And you are too proud, annoyed he isn't openly sharing finances to tell him the truth.

The lack of openness from each of you about finances is driving a wedge between you. Maybe this is the only issue, maybe there are other problems too. Young kids are also exhausting and if he is leaving all that work to you, you probably never have the energy for a frank conversation with him after the kids are in bed. But if you can be open with him and show him why you are struggling to pay for what you currently try to take care of re food and kids costs it could open the way to changes in how you split finances and weekend childcare. And if not then Leave The B@%#tard!

I agree

But how much could you have gone into debt for extra spending money that apparently the reason you can’t make £1,650 last the month on some of the food shop, kids clothes and activities for them when you’re working 3 of the week days? Nothing adds up. You say you don’t spend much but you needed to go into such debt on Mat leave that you can’t get though the month now on quite a lot of money compared to what it needs to go on.

Do you know the details of the household bills? Do you partake in the household finances?
Your initial frustration is you think he could pay more, but you’re purposely being wishy washy about what he does pay and how much of his salary it actually takes up.

It’s hard to tell if you have no interest and don’t want to acknowledge the fact that the mortgage and all remaining bills, repairs and house expenses could be most of your DH’s salary or if you’re just doubling down because people have pointed out that not having £30 at the end of the month several times suggests being bad with budgeting.

It could be this. (It won’t make a difference upon divorce though if it’s the marital home.)

Or it could be that he feels they got/can get a higher mortgage if he’s sole borrower with no childcare obligations to declare.

But OP should still be on the deeds to the house - it’s usually a condition of the mortgage that if someone lives there with an interest in the property (which she has as his wife, in the marital home) then they either have to sign a legal document to say they are not an owner or they need to go on the deeds even though their income isn’t taken into account.

There is literally no point in talking to DH about money. I promise I’ve tried and he just starts going on about how we’re going to go bankrupt.

When I went back to work I decided just to pay for things myself. I realised after he ruined my DS’s party that that was it financially. But then I get the odd event like today and it upsets me.

Wth, how did he ruin your DS's party?

@imsureiusedto the thread seems to have deteriorated somewhat since I left it earlier op.

My advice stands , I think you should consider the possibility of financial abuse happening here. Only you know the numbers you're working with and whether they reflect an equal relationship. You know what kind of man your partner is.

You've got plenty in your favour , a good job , a property and hopefully supportive family and friends too.

Good luck.

How about mediation? Proper skilled mediation. It's what you should do before you decide to divorce (if that is a possible outcome). Someone impartial who can help to throw light on how things are now, and how you got into a position where your dh didn't contribute more financially during your maternity leave, that has left you in debt. That is terrible, it was leave for you ALL, and for you and him to finance jointly, not for you to pay.

Did you tell him that you would get into debt as a consequence? Did you realise that would happen before you were pregnant the second time? Do you know if he has savings, and did he carry on saving while you were simultaneously getting into debt?

It sounds like his expectation is similar to that of several posters - i.e. he pays bills and mortage which are the major household costs, you pay childcare and child activities and (some? all?) food/supermarket bills. He thinks you have plenty for this. But you don't. Either because of the size of your maternity debt. Or because you pay (most? all) the food/supermarket bills and these have increased massively over the past few years. Or because you don't have a tight grip on your own finances and budget and are spending too much on activities or coffees or eating out with the dc.

If your own finances are under so much pressure why are you going to reduce your working hours?

You say that you have plenty (combined) but do you know that? Have his bills and expenses also increased dramatically? Utilities, petrol, insurances, rising mortgage rates. Maybe he is genuinely worried about the financial pressures that HE can see in respect of what he is paying for.

I'm trying to be even handed here except over him expecting you to fund your own maternity leave but neither of you are talking about these things. If the only way to force him into mediation is to threaten divorce, then do it.

@imsureiusedto - I dont think anyone can post anything about giving their kids a sandwich at a cafe without people telling them there's water in the tap and bread and jam in the pantry. Fucking ridiculous, you both earn good money and your DH is a tight fisted twat. Money goes into joint account proportionate to earning ability. End of.

So if he's not doing that AND making you miserable, do you really want to stay with him?

This.
Can you really not go through three or four months spending, make a spreadsheet listing the children-related spends, agree on what is acceptable and then create a joint account to which you each contribute a set amount monthly?

Ideally you would do that with all of the household bills, on a pro-rata basis according to your relative incomes.

You can keep the rest of your money separate.

You've not taken any advice on board about splitting/sharing finances.

How much does your DH actually have left after mortgage and bills? Maybe things are tighter than you think.

It's a very unusual family set up and you've left yourself quite vulnerable. I suspect you know and that's why the answers you've had here have been so upsetting for you.

Why can't you say to your DH: 'i would like to talk about how we split our finances, when is a good time to talk?'

I don’t consider myself vulnerable to be honest, I earn well, I can easily go back full time and earn more and I have assets.

The problem with the suggestions is that they depend on DHs cooperation and I don’t have that.

But gently OP you do understand this is not at all normal? You’re married, you’re meant to be a team but you seem to lead entirely separate - including financial lives - with you doing everything with the DC and him paying some but not all of the bills & thinking that’s all he need do. From what you’ve said it sound a very sad and lonely existence for you

the thing is though you cant change him. If this is who he is, then all you can do is change what you do in response