DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

You don't ness need a joint account but financial transparency is a must. If he drops dead tomorrow or walks out would you know the bills and mortgage etc

What's his background and what are his parents like?

Sometimes that sheds a bit of light.

I'd be sending him a link to the cms calvulator. Hopefully seeing how much he would owe you in maintainence will shut him up.

It depends on how much of what you say is regular.

We had not much spare money when the dc were little and soft play was probably about four times a year.
Eating out would often be grabbing a packet of sausage rolls at the supermarket and eating in the park/side of the road when it had to happen. Actually sitting and eating in a café very rare - and it also depends on what you get - dd1 and 2 shared a happy meal for example, and I'd wait until we got home, and then they'd get something like a sandwich when home. In those days that was £2.99. if you're talking about buying two children's meals then a sandwich and coffee for you, that's going to come to £10-£15, which would have blown our food bill for 2-3 days. Yes, we did eat cheaply.

The problem is that the more you do it, the more it becomes expected. So whereas mine then would have said "wow! half a happy meal" and thought they'd had a treat because that's what they were used to, when they were a bit older and we always had a drink and a snack after swimming, they'd have felt put out that we didn't have it.

And oh we need milk, best get some oranges too while I’m here, oh and some cheese
that was a luxury we didn't have for a while. I had £40 to spend on meals for the week, nappies etc. So it would have been "milk, do we need cheese? How much have I spent this week? Oh dear, I needed washing powder on Monday, we'll wait until next week."
And now I don't have to think like that, so it's very easy to go "oh yes, the milk, and KitKats are on special offer, let's get that big bag of oranges because we should use them at some point... Cheese is on offer, so let's get two."

And half a pound of tup'penny rice, half a pound of treacle and the money has gone.

@MargaretThursday i get that and I’m sure my own mum would have said the same - BUT, I was playing unsupervised from a much younger age than my children are / will, everyone smoked, houses were cheaper, it isn’t a ‘fair’ comparison. Oh and no childcare costs. So I can’t really hark back to when I was a child to compare things. I don’t feel the need to bring them up as if they’re in poverty to make a point because they aren’t living in poverty.

Is this refusal to communicate just about money, or does he have difficulty with communication more generally?

Christ, I couldn't live like this. I'm a sahm and dh gives me whatever I need as long as he can afford it. His generosity is one of the best things about him, I cannot abide tightarses.

He's financially abusive OP.

you pay for food shopping too? Ouch that can be a mortgage in itself!

I’m certainly not pathetic or a fool; they are two things I’m certainly not. I’m part time for no other reason than I want to be.

@CatStoleMyChocolate i think generally we don’t communicate brilliantly over ‘difficult’ topics but money is the only area of stress really (although it does obviously seep into every area of life.)

I do pay for most of it but this is the thing; I cook and clean and so I know what we need and plan for. And this is what I need to get across to DH; if he had sole responsibility for them for two full days a week and then mostly for another two he’d find he spent a lot more than he currently does.

Genuinely, what is the point in getting married if you are not going to be transparent with finances?
Marriage is a legal contract to ensure assets are shared

@imsureiusedto sounds like you would be better off if you divorced.

I don't understand why you can't ask your DH for financial transparency and fair distribution of joint family monies?

Myself and my DH have our own accounts where our salaries go and then a joint account where we put the vast majority of our wages, we hold back a few hundred each for our own spends. All bills are taken from the joint account. My DH gets paid 3 times what I do so we feel this is the fairest way to do things.

This is fine if you’re skint but they aren’t.

^^in response to saving tuppence post

It's not living in poverty at all. It's being careful.

No child needs soft play and eating out at the café. It's nice to do it sometimes. And what I was saying is that if what you have put is a regular thing, then rein it back a bit to save money. If it was a once a term treat, then that's a different thing.

I used to sometimes talk to the dc. Say to them we had £10, we could have a drink and cake in a café, or we could go to the park and have an ice cream, or they could do soft play.
That's actually really good for them because they could see how the money could be used once and they got a choice. They knew that once they'd chosen and done it, they couldn't change their mind because the money wasn't there. Doing it with cash is helpful too because they can see it going.
That's a really important message to give children, and helps them in the future.

We also as they got older (3yo+) might say they had the choice between eg soft play this week, or saving the money and next week doing something bigger. Or even 6 weeks' time. You'd be surprised how exciting they used to find this. We'll put £5 aside every week for 6 weeks then we can go to Birdworld. They'd check the money each week, count it, and maybe even put their own pocket money in, and then at the entrance see what money they got back, and could they get ice creams, or maybe something from the shop?

And as they've got older they've been able to do that for themselves. Ds saved up for two years for something he wanted, for example.

Does he have no disposable income left each month? Is this his beef that all his salary is swallowed up running a home?

I couldn't be doing with someone examining everything spent on the kids or counting every bean when you are on good salaries. You need to be on the same page on this or split.

@MargaretThursday thats all totally fair enough if we couldn’t afford it; we can. There’s also my sanity to take into account. Going to soft play a couple of times a week isn’t condemning me to a life in debtors jail.

You’re a fool because he earns more than double. If you split up, he won’t want the kids 50/50. You will have them. He’ll pay maintenance but won’t be that much. Then you’ll have to pay bills etc along with childcare out of your £2,500. You’re a fool also because you allowed yourself to get into debt over maternity leave. You’re in financial inequality.

He earns £4k now, but he sounds young so had years of working. So in future will probably earn £5/6k. Then why, you’ll still be on £2k.

So, yes you’re in poverty. You chose this.

He's using you.

Joint account which you both need to.pay into according to income. All household expenditure comes from that account.

@imsureiusedto

"At the moment honestly I often feel I’d be happier apart from him but the children wouldn’t be and obviously they are more important"

This isn't always true. Happy parents make well adjusted children whether they are together or apart. Right now it appears than neither you nor your husband are really happy. He (wrongly) thinks you're profligate, you (rightly) think he's being an arse about your money.

If you were living separately I think both of you would be happier. He could be as tight as he chose with his money and you could spend what you liked within your own budget. He'd probably end up spending more quality time with his children and certainly he'd spend more time actually parenting them.

This. I would make this non negotiable and issue an ultimatum that we sort out all finances and have full transparency on both sides. this would also be helpful if you have to divorce later. Why on earth do you have debts from maternity leave? This should be a joint expense surely.

You pay for food shopping too?

How can you possibly not see you're being taken for a fool? You earn half as much as he does and yet you cover childcare, the grocery bill and all child related expenses plus you had to self fund your maternity leave?

I'm sorry, but wake up.

If you explained how much stress this causes you and how unhappy it is making you, but you also understand how frightened he seems by the cost of things and say you need to talk and come to some happy compromise, would he agree to couples counselling to talk it through?

You’re a fool

No, I’m not, I can assure you

because he earns more than double

I don’t give a shit what he earns

If you split up, he won’t want the kids 50/50.
You will have them.*

Good. I want them.

He’ll pay maintenance but won’t be that much.

He won’t pay a penny. I want nothing from him.

Then you’ll have to pay bills etc along with childcare out of your £2,500.

So if we split it is unlikely to be before September. Then I will have one child in childcare and with thirty funded hours which I’m more than able to pay even if I did stay part time.

You’re a fool also because you allowed yourself to get into debt over maternity leave.

A choice. One I’d make again. I wouldn’t swap that year for anything. Not for ANYTHING.

You’re in financial inequality.
He earns £4k now, but he sounds young so had years of working. So in future will probably earn £5/6k. Then why, you’ll still be on £2k.

He isn’t young. Neither am I. But yes, his salary will rise. I don’t care. Why would I?

So, yes you’re in poverty.

I do not think someone earning 50,000 (full time salary) with no mortgage can be described as living in poverty.

I think we live in different worlds because I would be looking at £70 as a big expense.
I think you need to talk and discuss your finances , are you saving ?
Eating out at cafes regularly is an expensive , do you ever pack a picnic instead? Go to the park ? There are lots of cheaper alternatives out there if you look