Found out we’re in huge debt.

[Inahole]

Hi,

in a state of shock right now. 4 days ago I found out that we are £100k in debt not including our mortgage.

Ive noticed that DH has not been himself for about 3 months- constantly tired, appearing stressed and losing weight. He’s prone to a bit of anxiety and depression and takes medication.

wevd been married 15 years. We have a mortgage, 2 kids, 2 cars and appears to be a nice life.he’s a lovely guy who would do anything for me and the kids

I knew we had done debt and that it was ‘a lot’. I knew it worries him but also thought it was under control and totally manageable.

dh earns about 97k. I earn 25k so our income is decent.

he broke down on Thursday and admitted how much we owe. I am shocked, angry, devestated etc etc

he confessed that it’s become harder to manage and he’s missed some payments/paid late. Our mortgage is totally up to date thankfully.

he’s a wreck. Crying, shaking and telling me that he’s let us down. I’ve been through everything and I can see that it’s been spent on life stuff abs nothing dodgy- gambling etc . I know that he has no dirty secrets other than the debt amount!!

my close friend colleague thinks I need to leave him and start afresh away from the debt. My mum thinks that it’s my problem too and it’s not something to end our marriage over.

any advice?

This law firm takes a different view. And this one. And this one. If he'd been running up massive debts in his name and entirely on himself then yeah, OP would have a solid argument against being liable for anything were they to split up, but these were very much things she has also benefited from - holidays, home improvements, their actual wedding. It's far from certain that a divorce court would agree that was all on him.

In your specific circumstances you are doing the right thing here.

For whatever reason you left this role/burden with him, and i understand from what you wrote how it got out of hand, both of you need oversight on finances going forward and its good it came out. This is the kind of thing people commit suicide over because they feel so trapped. Its lucky it came out now tbh.
Helping him and tackling it together is the best thing you can do.

This level of debt in these specifics circumstances would not end my marriage. It must be a huge shock though.
Good luck.

OP you need to take an active role in your family finances. I manage everything as DH is disorganised with money. His salary goes into our joint account with mine and I take it from there. I have spreadsheets, different accounts for different things and every £ is accounted for. We earn more than you but it's amazing how expensive life is these days. We have one car, I search around for deals for holidays, buy kids clothes on Vinted etc. You need to escape this notion that you 'need' things when in reality it's a want. I don't imagine you're alone with that level of debt as families strive to have the latest car, holiday etc.

Glad to read you are starting to get a grip on things. As you go through the process of detailing your income and outgoings you will start to see opportunities for savings.

A word of caution: don't be tempted to cut out things like insurance and pension contributions.

Dont get into the blame game. You both played a part in getting to this point. You both need to play your part in moving on from this.

Take the time to understand your financial attitudes.

It is very easy to look at a high gross income and think I should have this and that. The reality is that, on a large salary, for each extra £1 earned you only get to keep less than 60p.

Have you been guilty of spending at the level of the gross income rather than net?

What the hell have you spent the £100K on?

You need to get a better paying job if he's really struggling or up your hours and work out a debt repayment plan. It's not fair to have him shoulder it all.

A huge chunk of your spiralling debt over the years will be down to interest charges. You mention consolidation loans and late/missing payments. Once you have signed up to a plan with Step Change/ CAP, the interest stops. This in itself will take off some of the pressure and allow your payments to be knocked off the debts. Good luck.

It is easy to fall into lifestyle inflation. The DH may see colleagues on similar salaries enjoying a seemingly high end lifestyle. It can look like they all have the latest in holiday destinations, houses, cars. It is very tempting to think I should be able to have the same.

I know I have fallen into this way of thinking in the past. I was on a good salary but we have 3 DCs, we couldn't afford A and B and C. We could afford A OR B OR C. I was comparing myself to people with high earning partners and no DCs and feeling that I was somehow failing.

Ok.

The first thing you need to do is talk to a decent free debt advice charity. They will help you navigate your way through this and plan an affordable repayment schedule.

It sounds like it is all unsecured consumer debt - personal loans and credit cards. That is good as it means you are meeting your essential expenses (housing, energy, water, comms). The other good news is you both work and have a good income.

What you need to do as a matter of priority is to sit down and work out how you got here. Be brutally honest and account for every bit of spending. If you don't understand how you got here, then you won't be able to change and you risk being back here again.

Then write a new monthly budget and stick to it. If possible it should be at least a few hundred less than your monthly income and the excess put in to emergency savings.

Finally institute a new rule. Any spending over the monthly budget should come from savings or money that already exists. That means before you book that holiday, buy that new TV, plan that living room overhaul - sit down and identify where the money is coming from. Ideally it should always come from savings or other pots like a work bonus.

If money does have to be borrowed (eg to fund an emergency repair) - talk through the implications for your budget - so if it will cost £100 a month to repay, identify where that money is going to come from within your exisiting budget.

Basically, don't spend money you don't have.

You incurred the debt as a team.
He was trying to solve it but didn’t tell you
You half knew, but were too comfortable to read the signals properly.
You are both equally to blame.
You are both equally responsible.
You can both equally work it out, and both make the necessary sacrifices to get it paid off eventually.

Your friend is wrong, your mum is right.
OP, I’m glad that you recognise your part in this and are prepared to take responsibility along with your DH to solve it.
He must be very relieved that he can share this burden with you now.
Good luck !

@Inahole I honestly feel for you and DH☹ you're both kinda stuck on opposite sides of the same coin (I can be a little sarcastic at times but not how I meant it, I just couldn't think of a better analogy) and I'm sure it's a horrible, horrible place to be. There's one thing I can tell you though: it'll be ok. I know you're sat thinking "Oh clear off Froggie, I need to find a Tesco bag with a hundred large in it on my doorstep, not get lame motivational quotes off some twat on the internet!!1!", but I can hand on heart promise you, this will be ok.

Sure, it's not gonna be ok today, or tomorrow. Or next week, next month, and I'm not gonna sugar coat this - even the autumn isn't looking too promising. Here's the thing though; the absolute worst part is already over, for both of you.

This will be ok, your family will be ok, you will be ok.

In 15 years?

Probably a third to a half of it on interest and charges. The OP talks about multiple consolidations and missed payments.

Leaving, say £60k of overspending.

So around £4k pa. A family holiday a year that they couldn't afford. Or higher spending on cars than prudent. Plus a wedding has been mentioned - that could be about half the cost.

Or around £80 pw. The cost of a family meal or day out that wasn't in the budget. Or both adults buying lunch at work instead of taking packed lunch. Little things that many people do without thinking about it but adds up to a lot over time.

The DH probably hasn't earned as much as £97k a year for the past 15 years either. And the OP is on pretty much NMW so it's easy to see where their income could mostly go on mortgage, bills, childcare and lifestyle spending without looking like they have loads of cash.

Well said @Bjorkdidit
So many posters piling on with a virtue signalling/ moralistic stance.
Incredibly unhelpful and shaming

There are academic papers that discuss the difference between the debt and financial advice on MSE vs MN nearly 10 years ago and it seems that they still hold. Except there seems to be a difference in people providing emotional support for OP which may reflect that this is someone posting here in crisis and seeking advice and support rather than the support thread for people who are working on clearing their debts.

Concerning these informal services, several studies have used qualitative investigations to uncover the discourses that form the basis of debt forums. For example, Stanley et al. (2015) draw on qualitative thematic analyses to examine discussions on three online forums, revealing that people turn to anecdotal information to understand debt-related issues (see also Montgomerie et al., 2015, who explore how groups use digital platforms to educate people about debt and coordinate action related to indebtedness). Focusing on selections of data from MSE, Consumer Action Group, and Mumsnet forums, they identify two main themes, including the idea of troubleshooting (or debtors’ responses to debt and money management queries) and journeying (or how posters navigate the challenge of living with indebtedness and their pursuit of a ‘debt free’ reality).

I'm posting accessible pdfs of the papers rather than links to the journals.

Stanley, L.M. orcid.org/0000-0003-3882-8682, Deville, J. and Montgomerie, J. (2016) Digital Debt Management The Everyday Life of Austerity. New Formations: A Journal of Culture, Theory, Politics, 87. pp. 64-82. ISSN 0950-2378

Rather than analyse a subforum of Mumsnet, we instead sampled a single, long thread. ‘The Debt Thread’ is a place ‘for those who feel they are drowning and want a way out’, to quote the thread title. It is used by many posters in a way not dissimilar from a (debt) diary, with posters regularly sharing news of the latest methods they have found for ‘cutting back’ – for example, by collecting and using coupons in a newspaper, or forgoing an activity now considered too luxurious.

https://doi.org/10.3898/NEWF.87.4.2016https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/99917/4/DigitalDebtManagement_2016.pdf

Montgomerie, J., Deville, J., Packman, C. et al. (1 more author) (2015) Digital Technologies of Debt Resilience: Final Report (2014b). Working Papers of the Communities & Culture Network+, 5. ISSN 2052-7268 )

Mumsnet: This debt forum lies at the other end of the spectrum. The value-added for users is not necessarily tacit and technical knowledge of the finance industry, but centred more upon strategies for thrift and emotional support. A particular characteristic of the forum is that a small amount of users provide a large amount of the content.
…
For Mumsnet, in lieu of different sub-forums we sampled the latest Debt thread that contained 850 individual posts, and a total of around 65,000 words. The resulting data was coded in line with the research questions and aims of the project using NVivo ‒ a qualitative analysis research tool. We took a grounded theory approach to data analysis. We started by capturing the sample as PDFs via NCapture for NVivo ensuring that emoticons were retained this is important as members use these as an important way of expressing relief, frustration, anger, fear and sarcasm. Once the data corpus had been constructed, the entirety was read through in order to build some provisional themes.

https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/114790/1/Digital-Technologies-of-Debt-Resilience_Final-Report.pdf

You've taken the first and most important step. Well done and good luck going forward. You can do this.

I agree @Bjorkdidit and @missfliss it is all too easily done.

It is very easy on £30k income to look at £97k and think 'they must be rolling in it'. But they won't be.

Commuting costs may be significantly higher to secure that salary. For me (similar salary and household income), commuting into London daily would cost close to £10k.

That type of salary may mean longer hours meaning that the partner's career is limited to ensure that the home fires stay burning. If both are on similar salaries/career tracks then everything gets outsourced which is expensive in itself.

i think this problem is a lot worse that you are admitting to yourself, and i understand you are in shock despite knowing all about the fact you had a lot of debt, but a simple budget/ stop unnecessary spends isn't going to sort this, you need a better plan. What worries me from an outsider perspective is hat in an earlier post you label some of the debt is form your wedding- 15 years ago????? so you know for 15 years you have not handled or reduced your debt, then you mention maternity pay gaps so you had 2 children and you still paying off what you couldn't afford then to take off work but you did it twice- how many years ago was this?.

I appreciate you thought debt was being handled better- but handling debt- certainly 15 years plus of it, isn't the answer you need to reduce it and you need to get rid of some of your outgoings now- sell a car, take whatever proactive steps you can, then get a professional involved in consolidating debt and getting proper repayment restructuring in place, have a plan

If it has been 15 years i has not happened overnight.

Lifestyle creep can happen but overspending to the tune of £100k on living beyond your means is quite something.

That kind of debt usually spells something big like addiction (drugs, gambling etc..) or business failure etc..

Thi ls is why the OP and her husband really need to look hard at how they got in to this mess and the assumptions that were made. It doesn't matter what sort of lifestyle you think you should be able to afford on your income. Spending more money than you earn is always a recipe for misery.

You clearly have no useful knowledge or experience in this area and enjoy making up pointless shite and pointing the finger at others you deem below you.
Do you actually have any friends in real life? I hope you’ve learnt to keep your gob shut?

@Inahole You’ve made a great start so keep going. It will be ok and you’ll come out of this much stronger.

Gather together all the paperwork and book an appointment for both of you with a free debt advice service.

A lot of this debt is likely to be added on fees and interest charges and you’re going to need some help to get them frozen or reduced. That will make a big difference to the timescale for getting on top of the situation and paying it off.

Best of luck!

Yes, 100K is a lot of debt and quite terrifying, but you can sort it out. First be brutally honest with each other and go through your expenses atleast for the last year. Cut anything which is unnecessary to get by on a day to day basis. If you have two cars but can manage with one get rid of it. Use the money to pay off debt. Write down a list of all essential bills like mortgage, childcare, food, utilities, insurance, council tax etc. Then see what that total comes to. Anything else other than essentials like subscriptions for music, fitness, gym etc cancel. No more big holidays or weekly takeaways etc. for the short term. Do not buy any clothes unless it is absolutely necessary. Make a list of all the debts and decide the order in which you will tackle it. You can do this but you both have to be focussed.

@BargainaciousBargains Nice. I mean I won't ask if you meant to be so rude, because you clearly did.

Understanding how you got in to debt and stopping that cause it is a key to gaining control and a common pillar of debt advice. Without that knowledge it is difficult to solve the issue.

People can wang on about how lifestyle creep happens easily and how a household income of £100k+ doesn't go as far as you think all they like, the simple truth is the OP and her husband let lifestyle spending get out of control. It happens and is fixable, particularly on their income. But in order for it not to happen again, they need to understand how and why it happened and get practical and emotional control over their spending.

@Inahole the Money Saving Expert pages have good budget templates.

The mistake most people make is only including monthly outgoings and not annual ones.

You need to factor in car MOT, birthday presents, Christmas etc into every month (though perhaps transferring it into a separate account ringfenced for these purposes at the beginning of the month is best).

When you don't include this kind of spending, your budget is likely to fail.

While you need to cut back significantly, you also need to be realistic - especially with a debt this size where you are looking longer term. If there are any smaller amounts you can chip off, then a few months of as close to zero spending as you can get it is worth it. But you can't stay like that for a decade so be clear what your aims are.

The cutting to the bone is most useful to help make room to rearrange high interest debt or to get rid of the most costly.

The best thing you can do is get a handle on which debts cost you most in interest, when interest free rates end, what has early repayment charges etc.

You can also call all of your providers like Sky or the AA to make sure you get the best deals. Allowing things like breakdown cover to renew automatically is expensive.

I'd be making a two stage plan. The first to tackle the immediate issues and the latter to pay off in the longer term in a sustainable way.

@Ginmonkeyagain I think the problem was that your first suggestion was drugs/gambling which the OP has already said was not the case here.

Lifestyle creep often means lots of small spending habits some of which can be hard to break especially at work (the daily catch up over coffee/lunch). On £97k people will look at you sideways if you say you can't afford a coffee and a sandwich every day.

But it has to be done even if it does feel embarrassing to start with. A simple face saving way is to say you are giving up caffeine, UPF for health reasons.

Regular hair/nails appointments suck up cash without you noticing. Another hard habit to break as you wait for roots and previously gelled nails to grow out.

None of these sound like much but you are easily £100/week to the bad with nothing much to show for it.