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Original poster

Accused of financial abuse and theft by my sister

382 replies

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 09:57

Hi, I hope you’ve all enjoyed Christmas. I actually thought I’d posted last night, but it’s nowhere to be seen!!

A few years ago I fell into some financial difficulties and had a lot of debt at high interest rates. My poor credit rating meant that I wasn’t able to move the debt to a cheaper option.

My parents are retired, comfortable with no debt, but by no means rich. I adore them both. They were keen to help and allowed me to take a loan and a few 0% cards (all with relatively low limits) in their names to save on interest costs. I manage the accounts Online and make the payments directly from my account. They are very clear that they’re pleased to help, but that they see it as their debt in name only. There is no cost to them whatsoever. The payments are made on time. I’ll occasionally use the cards if necessary. We’ve had the awful conversation about inheritance etc and I’ve been clear that if my parents died then any outstanding debt but be cleared from my share of the inheritance. My siblings would not be impacted whatsoever.

my sister has found out about our arrangement as has kicked off, accusing me of being a thief and a financial abuser. Our relationship has been strained for a while now. Dh says that she’s just spiteful and needs go fuck off, but she’s hit a nerve and I can’t stop crying.

is my husband right, and should have just ignore her?

OP posts:
Hayliebells · 29/12/2023 12:36

You haven't asked for debt advice OP but I'm going to give it anyway. Borrow Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover from the library, read it, and make a plan to pay the loans back asap. Properly sort yourself out, take it seriously, because this IS a very serious situation you've got your parents into. Then your sister might be a little more forgiving.

Tontostitis · 29/12/2023 12:37

You should be ashamed

Inspirationneededplease · 29/12/2023 12:37

OP you’ve done nothing wrong. Your parents have allowed you to use their borrowing power - I have done the same with my parents and siblings and reciprocated. I don’t understand why people are being hard on you. Of course it’s not ideal but life isn’t black and white.

Don’t be hard on yourself. It’s obviously a vulnerability and a source of shame that you have needed their help. Your sister is playing on that. Ignore her.

Well done for getting from 40k to 12k! That’s incredible!

You may not have been able to manage that without their support. They were there for you when you needed them and you have shown yourself to be grateful and trustworthy. That’s a really positive experience to have with your parents. Don’t let your sister or people on the internet turn it into something dark and nasty. Ignore them!

NoTouch · 29/12/2023 12:37

whowhatwerewhy · 29/12/2023 12:07

Your parents entered into this agreement with full knowledge of your circumstances and presumably a written agreement. My DM helped my DS out financially and my DS stuck religiously to the payment plan .
The only stipulation was my DS stopped using credit cards and overdrafts .
I don't think you are abusing your parents as they entered Into it knowingly and willingly. I would however stop spending on the cards .

Do you think the OPs parents are truely fully aware the marriage is not in a good place and if they split and OP cannot pay they are stuck with paying this debt as the dh has no responsibility for it?

OP would sell "her" home if needed. It is not "her" home to sell, it is a marital asset that would need her dh agreement for a debt he is no longer responsibile for.

OP does not seem to appreciate she has made this previously martial debt, in a shaky marriage, now 100% her parents legal responsibility and her dh can just walk away from it.

She will need to rely on her parents bailing her out if that risk materialises. It is pretty clear she has not made her parents fully aware of any of this, because of she did they would have been mad to agree. Her sister is obviously more aware of the risks involved and not blinded by the misplaced trust that their dd would not put them in such a precarious position.

Original poster
Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 12:39

Tontostitis · 29/12/2023 12:37

You should be ashamed

I am now.

OP posts:
Pookerrod · 29/12/2023 12:39

Is it your DH’s debt too?

tbh I’d be pretty pissed off if my DB did this too. Legally, you have transferred your and your DH’s debt to your parents. That is pretty shitty. There are plenty of debt assistance agencies out there who could help without you burdening your parents. Time to stand on your own 2 feet.

jojom10 · 29/12/2023 12:41

Lollypop701 · 29/12/2023 12:33

If my parents did this for a sibling I wouldn’t think it was any of my business, as long as they were competent. It’s up to them what they do. As a parent I would do this for my child and would not tell their sibling. What I choose to financially is my business.

Op you are paying it off at a good rate, the only thing I would say if your marriage is rocky and you split you will be paying the debt off and your DH will walk away with half of the assets… so I think you should get something in writing with parents with both dh and you signed up to clear debt . This should reassure your sister too

I agree with this.

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 29/12/2023 12:41

If there’s enough in your “inheritance” to pay off your debt why on earth didn’t your parents just pay it off for you and then you pay them back, rather than taking on yet more debt?

LemonTT · 29/12/2023 12:44

I would be unhappy if one of my siblings was using my parents in this way. It’s abuse of a relationship for financial advantage. Even if they offered. Especially as you continue to add to the balance.

plus 0% runs out and you have no plan or ability to clear the debt.

Bad decision OP - put an end to this and stop being a user.

Topee · 29/12/2023 12:44

You were in difficulty and your parents were willing to help. Your sister may not like it but it’s actually none of her business.

muddyford · 29/12/2023 12:46

If the cards are in your parents' names and you are the one using them, then it's not financial abuse but pretty sure it is fraudulent. Which is criminal.

Richard1985 · 29/12/2023 12:46

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:30

That is not true at all. The conversation about inheritance etc was simply to consider what would happen if they passed away prematurely

What's the plan if you pass away prematurely? That's what I'd be worried about if I was your sister

graceinspace999 · 29/12/2023 12:49

Do you have this agreement in writing?

A loan agreement?

If your parents die is there any documentation to state that your debt to parents exists and should be taken from your inheritance?

If there is no written agreement then I’m afraid it looks underhand.

To me, if you are using their cards then you are abusing their trust.

Because of that I tend to agree with your sister.

kitsuneghost · 29/12/2023 12:56

I would never even share that with my parents. I know that they would want to help to the extent it would affect their (very modest) lifestyle so wouldn't even put them in the position

Icelandic9 · 29/12/2023 12:56

What would happen if you passed away op?

Tilllly · 29/12/2023 12:57

@Mayamymay of course you're ashamed
And that's propelling you to do better - and you are doing
Shame is a pointless emotion otherwise

@Tontostitis you should be ashamed for kicking someone when they're already down and struggling

femfemlicious · 29/12/2023 13:00

If you are genuine, then you need to buckle down and pay this off ASAP!. Spend other bare minimum and pay off this debt!

Infusedwithfigandhoney · 29/12/2023 13:02

gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 12:23

Taking out credit cards or loans in someone elses name is clearly fraud, but that's not what the OP has done. She has however asked / pursuaded (and we'll never know whether they willing agreed or just felt they had to to help their daughter...) her parents to take on debt to help her financial situation.

I think whether intentional or not that would be looked at by most as potentially coercive and/or abusive behaviour, particlarly as there was no external advice from either elsewhere in the family or otherwise. I'm pretty sure none of the organisations who support those in financial diffculty would condone this approach. Fine the OP is paying them at the moment, but who knows what might happen. I suspect that her parents don't have the ability to make these payments from their income without signifcantly impacting their lifestyle, otherwise they'd likely have had sufficent savings to use to clear her debts and arrange a repayment plan with her.

If I found that any of my siblings had done the same to my parents and I'd be livid. I'd be happy for my parents to lend them money - it's theres, they can do what they like with it. But borrowing money at risk to their own financial welbeing makes no sense at all.

Completely agree
At the heart of this is a toxic, enmeshed family.
What stands out is your lack of responsibility.

You transferred your debt and financial insecurity to your DP.
You blame your DS
You continue to use the cards
Your DH thinks your DS should FO
Plus playing the victim

You are not the victim here

Give your head a massive wobble.
Cut the cards up
Pay back ASAP
Apologise and speak to your DS
Consider ditching your DH and do the Freedom programme

kitsuneghost · 29/12/2023 13:03

femfemlicious · 29/12/2023 13:00

If you are genuine, then you need to buckle down and pay this off ASAP!. Spend other bare minimum and pay off this debt!

And cut up the cards

kitsuneghost · 29/12/2023 13:05

surferparadise · 29/12/2023 12:25

Hold on, what if the card is used fraudulently by someone (can happen to anyone, my card was cloned whilst shopping in Selfridges) then the credit card company rings your parents to check purchases? they arent going to get the money back if both you and your husband are freely using them and know the PIN

I was thinking this too
This would be down to OP to pay off any fraud.
Parents would be best not to report it even. If they are seen as negligent then any suspicious activity on their normal accounts will not be reimbursed either

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 29/12/2023 13:14

I’m sorry, but I’m very much with your sister. In her position this would worry me greatly.

gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 13:15

@Infusedwithfigandhoney that was @Tryingtokeepgoing's excellent post I was agreeing with - I forgot to add quotation marks!

wronginalltherightways · 29/12/2023 13:19

stackhead · 29/12/2023 10:12

I have done the same for my sister. One card with a fairly high limit and 0% interest. She transfers over the DD amount every month. Its debt in my name yes but it stops her from paying ridiculous amounts of interest every month and gives her an actual chance at paying it off.

However. The difference in our set ups is that she doesn't have access to the card or the account and she's not adding more money to the debt.

The red flag for me in your situation is that you are still using the cards. That suggests poor money management and I'd be worried if my sister was doing that to my parents too.

This

You shouldn't still be using the cards. If you are, and you need to, you're over spending generally and your sister has every right to be concerned and upset on behalf of your parents.

Persipan · 29/12/2023 13:20

NoTouch · 29/12/2023 12:37

Do you think the OPs parents are truely fully aware the marriage is not in a good place and if they split and OP cannot pay they are stuck with paying this debt as the dh has no responsibility for it?

OP would sell "her" home if needed. It is not "her" home to sell, it is a marital asset that would need her dh agreement for a debt he is no longer responsibile for.

OP does not seem to appreciate she has made this previously martial debt, in a shaky marriage, now 100% her parents legal responsibility and her dh can just walk away from it.

She will need to rely on her parents bailing her out if that risk materialises. It is pretty clear she has not made her parents fully aware of any of this, because of she did they would have been mad to agree. Her sister is obviously more aware of the risks involved and not blinded by the misplaced trust that their dd would not put them in such a precarious position.

Show quote history

All this. I'm surprised more people are not picking up on the precarious state of OP's marriage and the implications this might have for the debt. In the event the marriage ends, with all the additional financial challenges that would likely bring, the OP's parents are liable to get stuck with the debt. On paper it's nothing to do with OP at all.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/12/2023 13:24

Strictly speaking this may be between OP/DPs, but if there's history of them helping OP with finances - and I'd be amazed if there isn't - it's easy to understand the sister's concern

Add the continued use of the cards and it's only too clear OP's still living beyond her means, with the potential for this all to go horribly wrong

In the sister's shoes I'd worry too