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Original poster

Accused of financial abuse and theft by my sister

382 replies

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 09:57

Hi, I hope you’ve all enjoyed Christmas. I actually thought I’d posted last night, but it’s nowhere to be seen!!

A few years ago I fell into some financial difficulties and had a lot of debt at high interest rates. My poor credit rating meant that I wasn’t able to move the debt to a cheaper option.

My parents are retired, comfortable with no debt, but by no means rich. I adore them both. They were keen to help and allowed me to take a loan and a few 0% cards (all with relatively low limits) in their names to save on interest costs. I manage the accounts Online and make the payments directly from my account. They are very clear that they’re pleased to help, but that they see it as their debt in name only. There is no cost to them whatsoever. The payments are made on time. I’ll occasionally use the cards if necessary. We’ve had the awful conversation about inheritance etc and I’ve been clear that if my parents died then any outstanding debt but be cleared from my share of the inheritance. My siblings would not be impacted whatsoever.

my sister has found out about our arrangement as has kicked off, accusing me of being a thief and a financial abuser. Our relationship has been strained for a while now. Dh says that she’s just spiteful and needs go fuck off, but she’s hit a nerve and I can’t stop crying.

is my husband right, and should have just ignore her?

OP posts:
MILTOBE · 29/12/2023 11:58

I agree with others that you shouldn't be using the cards - in fact I think your parents should have insisted the cards were left at their home or (better still) shredded.

If your marriage isn't good and this debt is in your parents' names then what would happen if you and your husband split up and he refused to pay any of that money back?

DeeLusional · 29/12/2023 11:58

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:12

I know that’s a risk but I’m on a secure job and am on top of my finances so I think that’s very unlikely. I do know it’s a risk though and it’s one of the things that we discussed

If OP has a secure job and is on top of the finances then why did the parents have to bail OP out? Parents need to specify in their will that OP's share reflects these "loans".

Unicorntearsofgin · 29/12/2023 12:01

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 11:17

Thank you for all of the replies- I appreciate it. Taking some time out as I’m overwhelmed and need to compose myself for dc’s. What I will say is that I’m ashamed that I’m in this situation and that my parents have had to step in. The self loathing and how much I despise myself is something that I deal with everyday.

OP I don’t think you should be beating yourself up here. It’s clear you haven’t been acting maliciously.

I do think you need to take serious stock of your spending. These credit cards are for paying debts not to continue accumulating and I’d strongly advice a budgeting spreadsheet and ensuring you live within your means.

I can see your sisters side as well. I can imagine she might feel it’s unreasonable for an adult to need avail out like this and the honest truth is they probably did feel obligated to help. There is nothing you can do about this really other than acknowledge her feelings and be clear that you are working to clear this debt as soon as possible.

Honeychickpea · 29/12/2023 12:03

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 11:17

Thank you for all of the replies- I appreciate it. Taking some time out as I’m overwhelmed and need to compose myself for dc’s. What I will say is that I’m ashamed that I’m in this situation and that my parents have had to step in. The self loathing and how much I despise myself is something that I deal with everyday.

You should probably add in some loathing of your husband. He sounds like a shitty using piece of work.

NoTouch · 29/12/2023 12:06

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 11:03

We have a long history of conflict unfortunately

In this instance you need to accept her concerns are very valid and very reasonable. Convoluting those concerns with past conflicts sounds like an attempt to defend against your choices to put your pensioner parents at significant financial risk at a time of their life where if that risk materialises they have very few options.

Granted you may have not thought through completely the risk to your parents, but now you know you need to fix it. Speak to professionals to find out how you can remove your debt burden from your parents as soon as possible.

kitsuneghost · 29/12/2023 12:07

Sorry I am with your sister
Your debt is your responsibility and having cards in their name is bad enough but to be using them when you are a bit short is terrible.

whowhatwerewhy · 29/12/2023 12:07

Your parents entered into this agreement with full knowledge of your circumstances and presumably a written agreement. My DM helped my DS out financially and my DS stuck religiously to the payment plan .
The only stipulation was my DS stopped using credit cards and overdrafts .
I don't think you are abusing your parents as they entered Into it knowingly and willingly. I would however stop spending on the cards .

kitsuneghost · 29/12/2023 12:09

If you are in a secure job jow did you end up in debt?
If you are in a secure job why are you needing to occasionally use your parents card?

ohdelay · 29/12/2023 12:14

I'm with your sister purely because you're still using the cards so nothing is under control. We had a similar situation in our family with a gambler and it led to a forced remortgage of our parents house when he flaked as expected.

PlacidPenelope · 29/12/2023 12:16

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 11:17

Thank you for all of the replies- I appreciate it. Taking some time out as I’m overwhelmed and need to compose myself for dc’s. What I will say is that I’m ashamed that I’m in this situation and that my parents have had to step in. The self loathing and how much I despise myself is something that I deal with everyday.

Your parents didn't have to step in you could have gone to any one of the many debt charities to sort it out, you chose not to. If you were truly ashamed you would now do all you can to rectify the situation, to formalise it in writing, you would make a concerted effort to repay it all very quickly and you would certainly not be taking advantage of your parents credit by continuing to spend.

If I found that any of my siblings had done the same to my parents and I'd be livid. I'd be happy for my parents to lend them money - it's theres, they can do what they like with it. But borrowing money at risk to their own financial welbeing makes no sense at all.

I agree Tryingtokeepgoing, no problem parents lending a lump sum of money or even gifting a lump sum it is their money to do with as they please, but this is using money that is not theirs that they are carrying the financial risk for and still the OP keeps spending.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 29/12/2023 12:17

DeeLusional · 29/12/2023 11:58

If OP has a secure job and is on top of the finances then why did the parents have to bail OP out? Parents need to specify in their will that OP's share reflects these "loans".

Show quote history

How will they be able to work out the true cost of the loans? Op still using the cards so the amount is increasing and at some point will the parents stop getting offered 0% cards? Plus there is the transfer fees which is being added on to the debt!

DriftingDora · 29/12/2023 12:17

Your DH sounds charming. I wonder if he'd 'fuck off' if he were in your sister's shoes? As it is, he's quite happy for your elderly parents to bail you out - has he any pride? Why didn't he sort it out - or does he (or both of you) have other debts that made this impossible? Stop taking advantage of your parents and stand on your own feet - and get your husband to find some pride from somewhere. He's a user.

LuluBlakey1 · 29/12/2023 12:19

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:12

I know that’s a risk but I’m on a secure job and am on top of my finances so I think that’s very unlikely. I do know it’s a risk though and it’s one of the things that we discussed

You should close those cards and loans as soon as the debt is paid off. It is open to mis-use. If it goes wrong it is your parents who carry the can.

DeeLusional · 29/12/2023 12:20

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 29/12/2023 12:17

How will they be able to work out the true cost of the loans? Op still using the cards so the amount is increasing and at some point will the parents stop getting offered 0% cards? Plus there is the transfer fees which is being added on to the debt!

Show quote history

The cost of the loans would be worked out when the value of the estate is being calculated.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 29/12/2023 12:22

Just had a thought.. so it's your parents names that are on the physical cards and you and your husband are going into shops or online and using these cards?

gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 12:23

Taking out credit cards or loans in someone elses name is clearly fraud, but that's not what the OP has done. She has however asked / pursuaded (and we'll never know whether they willing agreed or just felt they had to to help their daughter...) her parents to take on debt to help her financial situation.

I think whether intentional or not that would be looked at by most as potentially coercive and/or abusive behaviour, particlarly as there was no external advice from either elsewhere in the family or otherwise. I'm pretty sure none of the organisations who support those in financial diffculty would condone this approach. Fine the OP is paying them at the moment, but who knows what might happen. I suspect that her parents don't have the ability to make these payments from their income without signifcantly impacting their lifestyle, otherwise they'd likely have had sufficent savings to use to clear her debts and arrange a repayment plan with her.

If I found that any of my siblings had done the same to my parents and I'd be livid. I'd be happy for my parents to lend them money - it's theres, they can do what they like with it. But borrowing money at risk to their own financial welbeing makes no sense at all.

gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 12:23

Agree 100% with this post

surferparadise · 29/12/2023 12:25

Hold on, what if the card is used fraudulently by someone (can happen to anyone, my card was cloned whilst shopping in Selfridges) then the credit card company rings your parents to check purchases? they arent going to get the money back if both you and your husband are freely using them and know the PIN

Jf20 · 29/12/2023 12:25

gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 12:23

Taking out credit cards or loans in someone elses name is clearly fraud, but that's not what the OP has done. She has however asked / pursuaded (and we'll never know whether they willing agreed or just felt they had to to help their daughter...) her parents to take on debt to help her financial situation.

I think whether intentional or not that would be looked at by most as potentially coercive and/or abusive behaviour, particlarly as there was no external advice from either elsewhere in the family or otherwise. I'm pretty sure none of the organisations who support those in financial diffculty would condone this approach. Fine the OP is paying them at the moment, but who knows what might happen. I suspect that her parents don't have the ability to make these payments from their income without signifcantly impacting their lifestyle, otherwise they'd likely have had sufficent savings to use to clear her debts and arrange a repayment plan with her.

If I found that any of my siblings had done the same to my parents and I'd be livid. I'd be happy for my parents to lend them money - it's theres, they can do what they like with it. But borrowing money at risk to their own financial welbeing makes no sense at all.

If she uses the cards and they aren’t in her name it’s fraud. She must be using them in her parents name.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 29/12/2023 12:27

I manage the accounts Online and make the payments directly from my account. *
@Mayamymay so do your parents have access too, or do they depend on you telling them the balance and what you're spending.
Basically your parents are bankrolling your household aren't they?

Longsight2019 · 29/12/2023 12:29

Your parents helped you in a time of difficulty. It’s nothing to do with your sister. Your parents should be clear to her on that. And reiterate that the balancing of their estate should they not survive the debt would be fair and total.

sometimes people need help. I’d help
my kids in the same way. With the same
boundaries.

Hayliebells · 29/12/2023 12:31

If I were your sibling I'd be concerned too. I probably wouldn't call you a financial abuser, but I wouldn't be happy. As you've said you still use the credit cards 'as necessary', that suggests you've still not got a handle on finances, which is a concern given you've put your parents at risk. You shouldn't be using credit cards for unexpected bills just before payday, that suggests you still have no spare cash. A priority should be paying only a minimum on the debt and saving an emergency fund for just that sort of scenario. If you can't do that and service the debts, you're living beyond your means and you need to sell stuff/adjust your lifestyle/whatever. It's really important you don't keep relying on a cycle of debt to get through, you should not be continuing to use credit in your parents name. I'd not be overly concerned about the initial loans to pay off your debts if I was your sister. But I'd be really concerned if I was your sister that you still haven't properly got a handle on your finances, and are still getting into debt, when the consequences for your parents could be huge. It sounds like they're not wealthy if they couldn't loan you the money themselves, so you are taking the piss a bit.

Bogofftosomewherehot · 29/12/2023 12:31

Darkandstormynite · 29/12/2023 10:18

Sorry but I agree with your sister here.

It's okay when everything is going well, but we all know that doesn't always last. You could land your parents in financial trouble and trash their credit rating as well. Something they may not recover from at an older age. Your DH clearly doesn't care, so his opinion means nothing here.

The fact you're using the cards instead of paying them off is a huge red flag for me. Your debt isn't under control and is likely snowballing.

Your sister is looking out for the welfare of her mum and dad. You currently are not.

This.

Where's your DH in all of this (apart from saying to ignore your sister..... how convenient!).

As for you using the cards - spending isn't at 0% so you're paying how much each month in interest???

Mrgwl29 · 29/12/2023 12:32

I think financial abuse is strong as your parents sound like they are willing to help you and are competent to make that decision.

I think the arrangement is not great and open to a lot of pitfalls.

Have you ever contacted a debt advice charity for help? Was this the first solution you all fell on or were other avenues explored?

Lollypop701 · 29/12/2023 12:33

If my parents did this for a sibling I wouldn’t think it was any of my business, as long as they were competent. It’s up to them what they do. As a parent I would do this for my child and would not tell their sibling. What I choose to financially is my business.

Op you are paying it off at a good rate, the only thing I would say if your marriage is rocky and you split you will be paying the debt off and your DH will walk away with half of the assets… so I think you should get something in writing with parents with both dh and you signed up to clear debt . This should reassure your sister too