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Original poster

Accused of financial abuse and theft by my sister

382 replies

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 09:57

Hi, I hope you’ve all enjoyed Christmas. I actually thought I’d posted last night, but it’s nowhere to be seen!!

A few years ago I fell into some financial difficulties and had a lot of debt at high interest rates. My poor credit rating meant that I wasn’t able to move the debt to a cheaper option.

My parents are retired, comfortable with no debt, but by no means rich. I adore them both. They were keen to help and allowed me to take a loan and a few 0% cards (all with relatively low limits) in their names to save on interest costs. I manage the accounts Online and make the payments directly from my account. They are very clear that they’re pleased to help, but that they see it as their debt in name only. There is no cost to them whatsoever. The payments are made on time. I’ll occasionally use the cards if necessary. We’ve had the awful conversation about inheritance etc and I’ve been clear that if my parents died then any outstanding debt but be cleared from my share of the inheritance. My siblings would not be impacted whatsoever.

my sister has found out about our arrangement as has kicked off, accusing me of being a thief and a financial abuser. Our relationship has been strained for a while now. Dh says that she’s just spiteful and needs go fuck off, but she’s hit a nerve and I can’t stop crying.

is my husband right, and should have just ignore her?

OP posts:
gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 10:47

Of course it's convenient for you to not see yourself as a financial abuser, but you've put your own HUGE debts onto your parents. It's incredibly selfish and not the way most adults would treat their mum and dad.

Original poster
Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:47

Hi, yes they would - aside from ‘ my debt’ they have no other debts or mortgage, decent pensions and savings etc. I would absolutely hate that scenario and Would sell my house before allowing that to happen- but in answer to your question, yes they Could

OP posts:
EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 29/12/2023 10:47

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:30

That is not true at all. The conversation about inheritance etc was simply to consider what would happen if they passed away prematurely

What happens if you become incapacitated and unable to work or you pass away prematurely? You might be young and healthy, but these scenarios aren't impossible and should have been considered prior to the debt being taken out. Do you have insurance to cover the debt if you're unable to work? The credit providers involved won't care about your arrangements and if the true circumstances were explained to them there may well be issues with your parents having taken out credit for this reason.

CornishPorsche · 29/12/2023 10:48

TheaBrandt · 29/12/2023 10:46

How can taking out debts in someone else’s name not be fraud? I would be horrified if my sister was doing this and would think very badly of her. Awful.

Because it's a transfer of the debt with the consent of both parties. Perfectly legal.

Taking out debt in your parents names without their knowledge would be fraud. An agreement is not the same thing.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 29/12/2023 10:48

MayThe4th · 29/12/2023 10:45

Firstly, what arrangement you and your parents have come to regarding your debt is none of your sister’s business. Assuming that your parents are of sound mind and have capacity the arrangement is between you and them.

Secondly however, if you’ve taken out loans and credit cards of £20k and you’re still using those credit cards, then you’re not on top of your debt. Plus using a credit card in someone else’s name is fraud. Added to which, if that credit card was compromised/cloaned in any way your parents wouldn’t have a leg to stand on with regards to getting that money back, as they have knowingly given the details to a third party.

So pay back the debt, but you absolutely have to cut up the credit cards. And you need to make adjustments to your lifestyle to account for the fact that you can’t afford to put things on a credit card. If you can’t afford it, then you can’t have it. That’s unfortunately the price you have to pay for getting so far into debt.

That's a pretty good summing up.

Original poster
Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:49

Nothing has ever been done without explicit consent

OP posts:
Tilllly · 29/12/2023 10:50

You have not abused your parents and this is none of your sisters business

Nor is it financial fraud

I'm not concerned about adding to the cards as you say you have done this infrequently as a bridge, and immediately paid the extra off - however this could be fraud given the cards are not in your name

What you have is a financial mess with limited options to resolve.

It also sounds as tho you don't have any documentated agreement with your parents which leaves them vulnerable- yes you've considered what happens if they die, but what if you do?

You've cleared a substantial chunk and are on track to completely clear it in the next 36 months which is good
But you'd be wise to speak to a debt management agency - go via citizens advice, you don't want one that charges

I think your intentions are good and you deserve some credit for what you've achieved but the current set up is precarious

NoSquirrels · 29/12/2023 10:52

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:35

So the total debt in my parents name was 20k at the start and now stands at just over 12k. We’ve just moved 7k of it into a new 0% deal for 17mnths.

Well done.

How is your own credit rating now?

I think you and your parents should document the loan and put it into writing that it should be repaid from a share of your inheritance should they pass away before it is paid off. It’s probably complicated if, say, the cards and loan are in your dad’s name and he passes away first, and your mum would then be left out of pocket if your dad’s estate had to pay off your debts. It would take any cash they had, or maybe (unlikely for £12K but still…) put your mum’s home at risk. It’s not likely they’d die at the same time so really it’s the affect on the surviving spouse that’s the issue, not what your sister might or might not inherit.

As soon as you can put any of this borrowing back into your name you should.

Daffodilsandtuplips · 29/12/2023 10:52

stackhead · 29/12/2023 10:12

I have done the same for my sister. One card with a fairly high limit and 0% interest. She transfers over the DD amount every month. Its debt in my name yes but it stops her from paying ridiculous amounts of interest every month and gives her an actual chance at paying it off.

However. The difference in our set ups is that she doesn't have access to the card or the account and she's not adding more money to the debt.

The red flag for me in your situation is that you are still using the cards. That suggests poor money management and I'd be worried if my sister was doing that to my parents too.

My DH did the same for our dd, it was the only way she could get ahead of paying the debt off. Two years at a 0% interest deal, She transferred the payments to him. She had no access to the card. He wouldn’t have allowed it, even if she’d asked.
It’s not financial abuse if your parents are fully aware Op, nor is it theft but stop using the cards, cut them up or give them to your parents. It’s too easy to get into further debt if you have access to them.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 29/12/2023 10:54

OP I don't think you've financially abused your parents. It sounds like you've been through a lot. I would want to do what they have done for any of my DC, unless the debt was from gambling or drug addiction, because then I couldn't rely on them to repay it. I don't think you've done anything wrong. I can understand your sisters concerns, but unless there's a lot more to the story she is overreacting and you haven't abused anyone.

I do agree with PP you need to find a way to manage without adding debt to the cards even if just temporarily. This would be a red flag if I was your sibling or parent. You need to get out of that mindset.

Catsknowbest · 29/12/2023 10:56

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:49

Nothing has ever been done without explicit consent

So they know you've used the cards for purchases?

alwaysmovingforwards · 29/12/2023 10:56

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:42

I really don’t feel that I’ve abused my parents, but I’m devastated that others may see it that way

I think others may see it as your financial incompetence has forced your parents and family relationships to be put at risk.

KateyCuckoo · 29/12/2023 10:56

@Mayamymay do you think you could quote the posts you're replying to, it's easier to follow rather than just your yes/no answers.

NoTouch · 29/12/2023 10:57

You should remove your financial burdens and risk from your parents, even if it costs you more to service your debt.

AgnesX · 29/12/2023 10:58

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:12

I know that’s a risk but I’m on a secure job and am on top of my finances so I think that’s very unlikely. I do know it’s a risk though and it’s one of the things that we discussed

If you're having to use these cards it doesn't sound like you are really. You really need to get out of this type of money management. Not least because you're not improving your own credit levels (there are 0% cards that you could take out in your own name).

ironorchids · 29/12/2023 11:00

Her attitude is probably more related to your general relationship with money and your parents. I doubt it is just one debt that would cause that much of a rift.

BestBadger · 29/12/2023 11:01

TheaBrandt · 29/12/2023 09:59

Isn’t that fraud?

No.

Namerequired · 29/12/2023 11:02

What will happen if things aren’t great with your dh and he just walks away, no longer paying the debt and leaving you to do all alone. Legally as it’s now your parents debt he could do that. I would work at trying to get as much of it back in your and your husbands names whenever possible. Though it sounds like you are working hard to clear it. You need to throw everything at it. It should be a very short term solution. Then your sister will settle down. You can’t blame her for being concerned, people can get as protective over their parents as children. You know your intentions, but she will be seeing all the ways it can go wrong.

Original poster
Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 11:03

We have a long history of conflict unfortunately

OP posts:
Nicole1111 · 29/12/2023 11:04

I think your sister’s accusation that it is financial abuse is inaccurate, as your parents seem happy with the arrangement, but I can totally understand why she would be concerned about the possible implications for your parents. While it sounds like you’re managing your finances better now you must have been pretty horrendous with money to rack up that debt in the first place so it’s not unreasonable of your sister to be concerned that you wouldn’t repay your parents and could get them in to trouble. Drawing up a contract which explicitly states you would sell your house, repay out of inheritance etc to show your sister might reassure her.

LargerThanAHobbit · 29/12/2023 11:08

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 10:10

Hi, I’ve used them on occasion when ve had a big bill just before payday etc, however I’ve always increased payment to clear the amount of I’ve spent etc.

This sounds like poor money management.
What were the big bills before payday?
Why was it not expected and planned for?

If it was something like a car repair or washing machine breakdown, why could you not just work around it, like wash by hand or catch a bus, until payday?

You have to just stop spending to get out of debt. That means changing your expectations of what is a 'reasonable' lifestyle and what are 'reasonable' things to be spending on. You just have to make-do and go without until payday.

Well done for paying down as much as you have, but it sounds like you have scope to do better.

gattocattivo · 29/12/2023 11:08

Regardless of the technical aspects (whether it's fraud, whether it meets the definition of financial abuse) ... it's appallingly selfish to put YOUR debt onto your parents. That's the real issue here, which you seem hell bent on trying to justify.

starsparkle08 · 29/12/2023 11:09

I can see why your sister is angry now seeing the severity of the debt starting at 20k and now 12k . Your parents may have mentioned it to her as they themselves are unhappy and it’s causing them anxiety .

Original poster
Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 11:09

Catsknowbest · 29/12/2023 10:56

So they know you've used the cards for purchases?

Show quote history

Yes totally. They’ve been very clear that I can use the cards in any way that I see fit. I do agree though that using them isn’t ideal

OP posts:
Gazelda · 29/12/2023 11:12

You obviously have a difficult relationship with your sister. And I think she's used inflammatory language. But maybe there's more of a back story and she's genuinely concerned for your parents.

It's amazing that you've managed to clear so much of the debt so far, and that you're on track for 2026.

But it's a worry that you're still spending beyond your means. You don't seem to have any buffer.

And your marriage isn't in the best state - what if you end up divorcing? How will you afford to keep paying off the cards?

And why didn't you get the latest card in your name? Did you even try?

To be honest, it sounds as though you've been a bit complacent about this. Your parents might have agreed to it and even be happy to help. But there are a number of pitfalls and it would have been better if you could have found another way such as professional debt advice.