Accused of financial abuse and theft by my sister

[Mayamymay]

Hi, I hope you’ve all enjoyed Christmas. I actually thought I’d posted last night, but it’s nowhere to be seen!!

A few years ago I fell into some financial difficulties and had a lot of debt at high interest rates. My poor credit rating meant that I wasn’t able to move the debt to a cheaper option.

My parents are retired, comfortable with no debt, but by no means rich. I adore them both. They were keen to help and allowed me to take a loan and a few 0% cards (all with relatively low limits) in their names to save on interest costs. I manage the accounts Online and make the payments directly from my account. They are very clear that they’re pleased to help, but that they see it as their debt in name only. There is no cost to them whatsoever. The payments are made on time. I’ll occasionally use the cards if necessary. We’ve had the awful conversation about inheritance etc and I’ve been clear that if my parents died then any outstanding debt but be cleared from my share of the inheritance. My siblings would not be impacted whatsoever.

my sister has found out about our arrangement as has kicked off, accusing me of being a thief and a financial abuser. Our relationship has been strained for a while now. Dh says that she’s just spiteful and needs go fuck off, but she’s hit a nerve and I can’t stop crying.

is my husband right, and should have just ignore her?

No, mums sister lives there so she’s spending a month there. Dad joins her in 2 weeks

Then wait till they come back and discuss it with both of them. And stop spending on the cards.

I understand all of the concerns everyone has but I would try and help my children financially if they needed it and I would prefer an interest free loan in my name rather than a high interest credit card in their name.

If you split from your DH, he could legally ignore the 12K debt you owe your parents when calculating half of any assets you jointly own.
How long have you been married? I only ask because if the debt incurred after you married, it’s a joint debt - what is he doing to help repay your parents? You’ve paid on average £333 a month so far. For the 7K on the new card to be paid off in 17 months, thats £410 a month, plus the repayment on the bank loan.

Not saying it’s your intention but it’s what the Tinder Swindler did. He didn’t steal the women’s actual money but their credit lines. So they took out credit at his suggestion which he then took - then vanished. They were left with the debt. None had any recourse to him as the debt is theirs. You’ve basically done the same but rationalised it because you currently do pay it off and you intend to pay it off. But your parents are having to take the risk on you doing that. If there are circumstances that prevent you repaying they are as exposed to the debt companies as the women were as the debts are theirs. Do you not see it this way?

Parents aren't using the credit cards in Australia, are they?

You sound financially irresponsible I'd be worried too

Are you not committing fraud by using the credit cards which are in your parents names? Or are you an authorised user of these cards?

This flippancy of sell my house before allowing that to happen is ridiculous - is the house in your sole name? Are you the only one on the mortgage? Could you sell it quickly enough to raise the money to prevent your parents having to pay with their savings before the bailiffs call?

If you had that asset of the house in 2021 I am guessing you did not have the equity or required financial soundness to re-mortgage or to take a loan against it to clear your debts. Do you now? If you do this is what you should do to clear the debt your parents have.

I see you are going to talk to your dad later - if you are not prepared or able to re-mortgage or secure a loan against your property then the best thing you could do is to persuade your parents to clear all the remaining debt using their savings and turn it into a formal loan to you with an agreed payment plan, what happens should you default and have it written into their Wills that any outstanding balance will be deducted from your share of the inheritance.

Make it formal, legal and above board and take back your debt.

Depends on the T&Cs.

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/when-somebody-else-uses-a-credit-card-315827

Sounds like your parents are really helping you, that's great that you've paid off so much. They made a good plan, and you stuck it it, well done. Your sister is just worried that you're gaining by lumping them with debt, but it's not true at all. I have a sister who's aggressive and tries to control our parents. I've learned to ignore her now. There is no contact between us now, and I feel better.

Your sister is just worried that you're gaining by lumping them with debt, but it's not true at all

Or perhaps DSis in angry that parents who had no debt and aren't that well of have been lumbered with £ 20k of debt for which they're liable by a financially irresponsible sibling.

I think it is the OP who is controlling her parents by legally lumbering them with her debt.

My best friend has been doing much the same for nearly 20 years...running up large debts, mainly credit cards/loans, and then his parents either pay off the debt or transfer into their own names, as their credit rating is far better than his. Over the course of that time they must have actually given him nearly 30K.

He's learnt nothing from it. He turns 40 next year and owes more than he ever has...as soon as the debt is paid off he promptly runs it back up again. The difference now is his parents are both retired, and can longer afford to bail him out. He's now reached the point where he can no longer pay his mortgage and service the debt... and he still owes his mother 15K on a loan. She is aware that he has some debt again, but has no idea of the extent of it. There is now a very good chance that he will default on his mortgage next year and lose his house.

First thing you need to do is stop using the cards. Also get help from a debt charity like stepchange. As the debt is in your parent's name, they will probably need to deal with them directly. While what you've done is not illegal, as far as your creditors are concerned the debt belongs to your parents, not you, and it is them they will come after if you default.

Op should feel ashamed and use that shame to make changes so that she never puts herself or others in that position again.

Justifying poor behaviour because it helps you minimise your feelings isn't helpful Op
You stay in a loop of shame / blame/ poor decision making.
Make changes and as I said before the Freedom programme is very helpful.

Stop feeling terrible. We all make mistakes. Just make it right

The OP exhibited exactly zero feelings of shame in her post. In fact was clearly hoping to be told her behaviour is fine and I 100% stand by you should be ashamed that's my answer to her AIBU. It's not kicking her when she's down she's not down she's appeased her husband, debt free with cards she can use at will. Shame should be felt about putting your parents finances at risk and a family torn apart by her financial misconduct. Every family has one and its left to other members to desperately try and protect the more vulnerable members.

The crux of it for me is not the initial debt but the fact that you are still spending on the credit cards. This additional spending on the credit cards in your parent's names destroys any credibility you had at the start of the arrangement and I can understand why your sister has said the things she has.

My dad lent me £30k for a house deposit, when he was 67. Many parents do. I had a three year payback plan with him. If I’d died or developed an incapacitating condition, I would have struggled to pay him back.

@gattocattivo - am I a financial abuser too?

That's in no way the same thing!!

That’s nothing like the OP and your dad will have had to confirm to conveyancers that the 30k was indeed a loan to be repaid to him, so if you’d died or became incapacitated he would have had an interest in the property.

Kicking the OP when she is down? How is the OP down, the OP is doing very nicely, no debt in her name, able to spend on credit cards that are not hers.

There is no way the OP was unaware of the risk her parents were taking on, the parents have no control over the accounts or cards and OP has helped herself to her parents line of credit on more than one occasion.

The protestations that she would sell her house, would make sure the debt is repaid from any inheritance and wouldn't do that to her siblings are just empty words, I am sure her siblings never thought that OP would land her parents with her debt giving her a clean debt history and use credit cards in her parents name for her own funds.

I’ve just say and read all of this post and it’s certainly evoked a response!

my view is that OP is a financial abuser, or a thief. As someone who supports victims of abuse within my job, I’m sensitive to the term abuser being used erroneously.

from what OP has posted, it sounds as though her parents were happy with the agreement. We can all have a view on whether it’s something we would have done on this situation, but ultimately it’s between OP and the parents.

As a mother I’ve asked myself what I’d do if my child needed this type of support. I’ve no doubt that I’d agree to do it if it made my child’s life easier and reduced stress. Whilst it’s not risk free, there is little impact on the parents of the debts payments are made on time each month. I remember my dad acting as guarantor for my car loan when I was 22 (I’m 50 now) which is essentially the same thing.

i’m disappointed with some of the very harsh comments that OP has received and feel that this is largely unwarranted.

I think it’s ok for the sister to look out for her parents, but throwing around accusations of abuse and they is disproportionate and unfair

I agree. I would hate to think that my kids were struggling with high interest debt when I had the ability to help.

@LaughingCat if you're using credit cards and making your parents entirely responsible rather than paying off your own debts then yeah you're a financial abuser too. But you're describing an entirely different scenario, not sure why 🤷‍♀️