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Keeping up with the Joneses culture

138 replies

Mumoftwo2021 · 02/06/2021 07:28

Anyone else feel that social media etc have set impossible standards for our younger generation.

We have become a culture of debt and trying to keep up with the Joneses, all the while destroying our mental health and spiralling further into debt.

Recently I’ve reviewed our finances and decided to stop being sucked into this and sort out our finances out to have some quality of life.

Anyone else taken a U turn in this day and age and refused to try and live up to today’s standards?

OP posts:
Kendodd · 05/06/2021 21:41

If you buy a 4x4 because you love it

See that's what I just don't get. Why would anyone love a car? All I want from a car is that it gets me from A to B.
We needed a new kitchen a while ago (needed because the old one was falling to bits) while kitchen shopping there were lots of 'dream kitchen' type marketing. Wtf is a 'dream kitchen', who dreams about kitchens?

Whereverilaymycat · 05/06/2021 22:12

@Kendodd because people love different things? I don’t particularly care about cars. It’s very much an A to B for me too. My other half loves them. Enjoys driving, enjoys the features, likes motor sport etc etc. So for him he’s interested in cars and has a car that he really loves and enjoys driving. Someone else liking his car is irrelevant. He bought the car because it made (and still makes) him happy. Not because he wanted to out do someone else or have a certain image.

Kendodd · 05/06/2021 22:25

I do get that people like doing different things, emotional attachment to possessions though, I don't really get.

A great sage (well, Joan Collins Grin ) once said 'never love anything that can't love you back'. She was being asked about a peice of jewellery she was wearing and if she loved it. Wise words I think.

VodselForDinner · 05/06/2021 22:34

@Kendodd

I do get that people like doing different things, emotional attachment to possessions though, I don't really get.

A great sage (well, Joan Collins Grin ) once said 'never love anything that can't love you back'. She was being asked about a peice of jewellery she was wearing and if she loved it. Wise words I think.

Not sure if I’d take advice on love from Ms. Collins!
Sophiederuges · 06/06/2021 08:23

@Whereverilaymycat I like your way of thinking! I could have written it word for word, though not so articulately as I was struggling to put it into words.

LongIslandIcedT · 06/06/2021 08:36

We weren't particularly frugal until DHs redundancy. My wage just about paid the bills. He wanted to set up a company, this depleted our savings. I was 29. He ended up getting a job on 18k just to get some money in and it took years to get back on our feet. He's earning better now but we are stupidly cautious about spending unnecessarily.
I spent my early 30s just about managing, it was really hard when my friends are having great holidays, moving to bigger houses and getting lovely things. I decided to be happy about not spending in the same way, I follow a lot of minimalist blogs and it has definitely helped counter act the big marketing companies. Good luck.

Whereverilaymycat · 06/06/2021 09:13

Thank you @Sophiederuges. To the point @Kendodd made. Maybe love isn’t the right word as it implies that he couldn’t live without the car. He could. He sold another car when we had children as it was unbelievably impractical. He missed driving it, but it didn’t last that long. Maybe it’s just enjoyment.

I’ve been following the FIRE thread on here and what has been eye opening for me, is the idea of only spending where it’s necessary or you get real pleasure / value. So rather than thinking you have to keep up with someone else, you think I have £x what do I want to do with it? What will make me happy? Some people have always had this within them and that’s to be admired. For me, it’s something I’ve had to learn and be vigilant over.

Whereverilaymycat · 06/06/2021 09:14

@LongIslandIcedT I’ve also found looking at minimalist and money saving blogs a good motivator. Makes me feel less different in a world where there’s always pressure to buy more and buy ‘better’

Lampzade · 06/06/2021 09:42

We are quite comfortable at the moment and have just bought a lovely house in an ok area.
However, I have never felt the need to keep up with others. I don’t have a 4x4 Range Rover, simply because I don’t like them. However, I do have a very nice car which is three years old.
I travel a lot for my job ( pre Covid) and therefore spend inordinate amounts of time on the road so I need a reliable car
I don’t assume that everyone who has massive homes and expensive cars is in debt or extremely unhappy, because this is not true.
I think that sometimes one can try to pick holes in the lifestyles of others to make ourselves feel better

Some people have more money than others , this is a fact of life.
Things are better for us financially, but even when things were difficult I was never bothered by how much others had. I just wanted some security for family . If things go pear shaped I cope because money doesn’t define me.
I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, Twitter because they don’t interest me tbh.

Raskolnikov84 · 06/06/2021 21:21

My father told me that on his first day at boarding school in the 50s, a boy - who had a stutter - came up to him and asked "Does your f, f, f, father own any land?"

My father felt a little embarrassed as his own father did have some land, and he didn't want to seem like a show off, but he answered honestly "Well yes actually, five acres. And how about your father?"

The boy replied. "Yes, he owns f, f, fift, fift..."

My father thought he would try and be helpful so offered "Fifty acres?"

To which the boy replied "No, fifty thousand acres".

Whenever I feel envious of what someone else has, that story comes to mind, and the feeling disappears amidst the inevitability and pointlessness of it all.

BarbaraofSeville · 07/06/2021 09:27

I have never worried about anyone else’s standards. Just make things nice for yourself

^^ This. But what baffles me most is that there seems to be people buying things they don't really want, and often can't afford, because either other people have them, or the feel they 'should' have them. Confused. Like the OP and her 4x4. It sounds like you didn't really want it, and you've been paying for it for two years and still owe £38k on Shock.

I more or less buy what I want, when I want it, within reason. And usually, when I look into it, I don't really want things that much, certainly not the cost and effort it takes to acquire them.

For example, I'd quite like to replace our 15 YO carpets with some sort of hard flooring. But to do that, I'd have to research what's available, most suitable, what it costs, how to get it fitted, because, having not bought flooring in 15 years, I have no idea what's available and what it costs. But if we're replacing the flooring, we really should get some of the walls replastered first, as they're not in great condition and its a messy job. But before we did that, we'd need to have a bit of a declutter and move all the furniture out of the way, and it's now all a big expensive job that I can't be arsed with. Maybe I'll just get the carpets cleaned, they're not that bad really.

I'd also quite like a new electric Mini, but they're over £30k and I quite like the Countryman one, but they don't do that in electric yet and I drive about 3-4000 miles a year so I don't need an expensive car so I'd me totally mad to spend over a year's take home pay on something that gets used a couple of times a week, if that.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 07/06/2021 10:07

Just a personal theory but ironically I think the people best able to resist this pressure (and probably some of the people posting on this thread comfortably saying they've never bought into 'keeping up' whatsoever) are the best off financially - if you are comfortably middle class, secure that you'll always be able to take care of the DC, support them in whatever they want to do, they'll never be bullied for being the 'poor kids' at school, free of whatever insecurities a lot of people have, you probably are less inclined to bankrupt yourself to get them the designer trainers or whatever other status symbol you feel is more protective? I'll probably be torn to shreds now by posters saying 'no I grew up in a ditch and raised my 10 children in a bus shelter wearing bin bags and never felt any materialistic instincts' classic-MN style!

I think this is very true. I grew up in a deprived area, and parents used to go to great length to ensure kids had the 'right' trainers etc. When I started mixing with people who were better off, it was noticeable that they cared less about the appearance of being wealthy (because they were secure in the knowledge that they were!). Fear of appearing poor is a big thing for a lot of people.

Grellbunt · 07/06/2021 10:29

I think there is more brand/fashion based bullying/excluding in certain social mileus. My kids are taught never to comment on what people have or don't have but some kids seem to care a lot and say it out loud....

Sonofabiscuit · 07/06/2021 11:23

@Grellbunt

I think there is more brand/fashion based bullying/excluding in certain social mileus. My kids are taught never to comment on what people have or don't have but some kids seem to care a lot and say it out loud....
My mil is the same ,she's obsessed with labels and who has what .moans has no money but changes cars every 2 years as must have anew car ,her husband is as bad . I wish someone had taught them not to be like it when younger and guessing now it's too late .
Blacktothepink · 07/06/2021 11:38

It’s not new…been happening for years, I know plenty in their 60’s & 70’s like this.

Iamthewombat · 07/06/2021 11:41

OP, can you say precisely what it was that made you think that you had to have a big car? No judgment: people have their reasons. I’m genuinely curious.

I was interested to read this disarmingly honest explanation from @MrsToadlike:

I had in my head this image of "successful" young mums with good jobs and a happy family driving a 4x4.

I realised that I'd craved a 4x4 not for the 4 wheel drive capability or the big boot space, but because the images I'd seen both in adverts and also in real-life in supermarket carparks had been of women with their sht togther with their 2.4 family in the back of their 4x4. And I'd made a link of "well if I drive one of those I'll have my sht together too and my life will look like that".

Was it the same for you?

I was also intrigued by this, from a PP (and I think that her father was correct)

Years ago my dad who was a union leader said that the local very large car factory offered a scheme where their employees were given a perk of a brand new car with discount, he said it's the company way to keep everyone compliant and not strike if the company decides to change their workplace conditions as they have this bill to pay. One by one these employees went from buying realistic smaller affordable family cars to luxury expensive ones.

Mumoftwo2021 · 07/06/2021 11:50

@Iamthewombat
To be honest we were looking for a bigger car as I had a bmw 1 series and we’ve two children & my DP is over 6ft, I kind of felt that the Range Rover was the top 4x4 and at the time not many people had the velar which tempted me.
As others have said I think it’s definitely a self esteem kind did thing if I was happy in myself I wouldn’t care what people thought.

I agree with the kids thing also they get called names if they don’t have certain brands or clothes or consoles etc and nobody wants their child to feel like that.

Hopefully I will soon get to the happiness that other posters have who don’t care what people think etc xx

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 08/06/2021 18:25

I agree that often it’s the most well off have the luxury of being able to walk away from the consumerism that they can easily afford.

When you could have a big TV or a ‘tacky’ big car or holiday or kitchen every 3 years, it can be much easier to not want them and to feel somehow more enlightened about consumerism and advertising. When your self worth comes more from the job you do, or the person you are, or somewhere else such as faith, the shiny new trainers or other outward markers of ‘success’ just aren’t needed, but when you actually don’t have much else, those things suddenly matter a lot to both individuals and communities. On one level that might be a pair of the latest trainers or a flash phone, and on the next level perhaps a certain brand of car or handbag, and behind that the UK holiday destination that you weekend in or the instrumental lessons your child has.

Lots of people in all income brackets are interested in ‘keeping up’ but what keeping up involves varies from paying the fees for boarding school, to having a certain T-shirt.

I think we like to imagine we are free from then influence of advertising and have thrown it off, and perhaps we do with the most basic consumerism, but often we take on other less obvious values which are still driving us in certain directions...whether they are all about providing ourselves and our families with experiences, or travel, or soft skills, or cultural experiences. Whichever group we are in, we are influenced to a degree by the norms around us, even if some aren’t overtly consumerist,

For us, we have what I would call moderate public sector professional jobs. Our income would seem a fortune to many, but is on the lower side for those with our education. We haven’t valued cars or home improvements or the big house, and by being pretty money savvy, our good, but nowhere near spectacular incomes have allowed us to privately educate our children and we will retire mid-50s. Lots of friends with incomes more than double ours say they couldn’t afford the education or retirement, but they might have houses double the size if ours and in more expensive areas. Neither of our choices was wrong or right and one isn’t morally superior to the other.

In the end, I think we all have goals and things we value. I agree that if you can afford it, it’s not a problem to spend big on something you value highly. For us it was education. For others it might be cars. But for most people, they key is spending big on just one area.....when you need to spend big in multiple areas and run huge debts to do it, it’s not about managing your resources to fund the thing you love, but seemingly indiscriminate spending on lots of stuff. And I do appreciate that lots of peoples finances done allow them to spend big on anything at all and I understand why people might seemingly foolishly get into debt for a big blow out at Christmas or when they decide to think ‘sod it’ to their lives of penny pinching and splash out on a new TV.

The real question is what gives you your purpose in life and sense of value. Where would you be and how would you feel if all your ‘stuff’ was stripped away. What would be left. The same could be said too about relationships...where would you be if suddenly the key people around you were no longer there for whatever reason. What about if you lived in an area if the world where natural disaster or war could wreck everything around you and leave you just standing naked and in bare feet? Some people have a self worth and value that comes from things beyond the transitory things. But perhaps that’s getting rather deep now..

WombatChocolate · 08/06/2021 18:33

Lots of people seem to worry about their kids being impacted by a lack of brands etc. I think it’s all down to parents and parental perception of these things and not about the kids themselves in reality. Kids who worry about this stuff and feel judged, take it from their parents feeling this way. Parents unwittingly pass their values to their kids.

The one kid I know who knows all about local house prices, the cost of all latest electrical items and clothing brands and is fully aware of who has what and who doesn’t, is the child whose parents discuss that stuff endlessly and despite being well off don’t feel well off ...all related to their backgrounds when perhaps they did struggle financially.

The kids who seem to have least awareness of clothing brands and who wear 2nd hand and those whose parents are very well-off and could easily afford all that stuff if they wanted it. So, it’s not the stuff, but being able to have it if you want it that can make the difference. Those kids will grow up not being hugely interested in TV brands or cars or designer handbags, but they will also grow up with a sense that the world is their oyster and success is their birthright, just because success is all around them. You don’t need to get your value from a big TV in that situation or to worry your child will be bullied for having the wrong trainers. Instead, the aspirational middle class might worry their child will be disadvantaged by not having done Latin or Mandarin since they were 7, or only having reached Grade 6 on the oboe. It’s the same as the worry about not having the right TV, but just placed somewhere

Mumoftwo2021 · 08/06/2021 18:52

@WombatChocolate some very interesting points, hit the nail on the head there! X

OP posts:
Dashel · 14/06/2021 22:15

DH have been very frugal for a long time, but I have friends who if they were given our considerable savings, would have nothing left within a month and none of it would be on a house. We are great friends but polar opposites with money. They laugh about the money they have blown on new hobbies that get forgotten about after a week.

I think that money and time are finite resources that need to spent wisely and planned and budgeted so that they help you to get what is most important.

I’m into FIRE and of the opinion that money needs to be used to enable freedom. I think of non essential large spends as costing me time at work and so an expensive car just isn’t worth working for an extra year for, let alone several expensive cars over a lifetime.

Keepitonthedownlow · 14/06/2021 22:22

@MrsToadlike

OP your messages about the 4x4 really struck a chord here. I'm a mum, early 30s, I have a well paying job too, and I had in my head this image of "successful" young mums with good jobs and a happy family driving a 4x4. I didn't know why I felt like that. And then about a year ago I watched The Minimalists documentary on Netlifx, which has some really good stuff in there about the power of advertising. And something clicked in my head - I realised that I'd craved a 4x4 not for the 4 wheel drive capability or the big boot space, but because the images I'd seen both in adverts and also in real-life in supermarket carparks had been of women with their sht togther with their 2.4 family in the back of their 4x4. And I'd made a link of "well if I drive one of those I'll have my sht together too and my life will look like that".

By the way, for anyone reading this thinking 'toad is bonkers', I totally agree, looking back on it now I realise I was bonkers to subconsciously link the two things. Of course my life won't suddenly improve if I drive a 4x4 Confused

It's the power of advertising.

Speaking of the power of advertising, the 'good life' vision I grew up with was owning a bike, with a basket in front with a small cute dog in it. I'm guessing it was a pet food commercial... I did finally achieve that dream.
partyatthepalace · 14/06/2021 22:33

@LemonRoses

The Joneses are very LMC.
Thank you Jilly Grin
Letsgetreadytocrumble · 14/06/2021 22:37

It's rife where I live. I just dont play - I have a right fugly car but it's reliable and has done me brilliantly over the years and I love it!

Mumoftwo2021 · 15/06/2021 09:13

Update, we have the new ‘used’ car and I love it! The weight lifted has made me so happy and the freedom we have is great, I don’t know how we lived so tight for two years!
@Dashel such a great way to view money!

OP posts: