Mum left me with 80k of debt in my name

[dreamingofautumn]

Hi everyone,

I’m just after a bit of advice, I’ll try and keep this brief. I’ve always had a strained relationship with my mother to the point I decided to move out when I was 21 into the local uni accommodation. During the three years of my degree I didn’t change my address details or anything to reflect where I was living and unknown to me my mother had taken out a huge number of finance agreements in my name- phone contracts, payday loans, credit cards, store cards, catalogues- you name it she took it out, totalling around 80k. When I finished my degree and had to move home after my Landlord sold the flat I was renting I discovered the mountain of debt collection letters she was hiding. I was obviously fuming and went to call the police but she played the mental health card and threatened to commit suicide (she had tried this in the past) and swore if I didn’t contact the police she’d pay it all off. We set up payment plans with the companies which she paid for about a year then promptly left my dad and I’ve never seen her since and it’s been 4 years.

I’m in a relatively good job but even so I feel like I’m barely making a dent in all this debt. The lenders have been incredibly supportive about setting up payment plans for the most part but my credit score is shot at the bottom end of very poor, I have 4 CCJ’s and countless defaults. I’m 28 and I’m stuck living at home with my dad because I can’t pass the credit check to rent let alone ever get approved for a mortgage. I was young and naive and shouldn’t have trusted my mother but I honestly don’t see a way out of this and don’t know how I’ll ever manage to rebuild my credit score

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Also does she have ’previous'/form for this sort of thing?

Much of the advice on this post is nonsense - e.g. "She acknowledged the debts when she signed off on those payments when her mother threatened to commit suicide. She signed those notes. I don't think there is any way around that. It is her debt now." Crap!
Can I respectfully suggest that contributors refrain from giving legal advice if they are not qualified to do so?

If the Police have told you they can not act. I would gather all the evidence and investigate a civil action.

This is such a shitty situation OP. I don't think you should be liable for the debt at all. As well as CAB do you have any free legal clinics near you (if any are running at the moment that is). I know the advice is time limited but they're free and at least it gets you in front of someone who should be able to tell you if this is worth pursuing. Also you can send Subject Access Requests to all the lenders to see what documentation they hold on the debt. Not all records are always kept after 6 years but if there's clear evidence in there that signatures were not yours etc it might be helpful. I'd definitely go the legal route as far as possible first. A couple of friends opted for bankruptcy a few years ago. The process itself was OK and the amount they were allowed to live off was fine, both were relieved they'd done it, but they filed for bankruptcy for their own debts. These aren't your debts, you shouldn't have to take the brunt of this.

You poor thing OP. That’s one of the most shocking threads I think I’ve read.

What an absolute dick your mam is. You must e a remarkable person to grown in to someone so level headed, bright etc...

I’d go to the police. Who needed enemies with a man like that.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. 100 times worse because it was your own mother

So sorry OP

I have skipped reading a lot of the replies as I have one of my own via experience. We had a family member do this very similar to your situation OP.

The family member was charged with fraud but skipped the country via fraudulent means. Has been jailed elsewhere for other illegal activities (never learns) and once time served, will be extradited.

One Creditor is a major bank who attempted to go after two of the family whose name debts had been placed in. Clever work by Solicitors forced the Bank to back down as they were found not to have undertaken correct due diligence in confirming they were dealing with the correct people when they extended the credit.

Get legal help OP. Quickly. They will find your Mother while they are at it, however, please brace yourself that She won't be helping you at all, but covering her back as much as she can. Could well be an addiction issue at the heart of it too as it was in our case.

You need to tell each of the lenders that none of this is your debt, and give them the last contact details you have for your mother. You really should never have accepted any sort of liability. Can you show that you did not sign or apply for anything?

It's to late for that. She entered into repayment agreements which effectively transferred the debt to her officially.

She needs a solicitor experienced in debt/ bankruptcy/ fraud.

OldGreyBadger she can't repudiate the payment plans she entered into without a solicitor going to bat for her.

The lenders have been incredibly supportive about setting up payment plans for the most part

Zilla It's a few years since I worked in this field and I am aware that the FCA has increased expectations of lenders since that time. You're right in saying that the OP should get proper advice, the CAB should have a list of solicitors who would give 30 minutes advice for free or a for a fixed price.

I'd love to be wrong, but lenders might rely on case law and the fact that the OP discovered this after graduating university would harm her claim to be naive and unaware of the consequences of acknowledging the debt.

contact christians against poverty.
and/or stepchange.
local solicitor.
anywhere for free legal advice.

good luck.

OP this is so sad and I hope the legal advice suggested can help but I too wonder where is your dad in all this? If this ever happened to my daughter we would never let it affect her like it is you, and do anything possible to support her and help her when it’s not her debt. It feels like you’ve been let down by both of them if your dad hasn’t stepped in; I think it adds to the sadness that you are blaming yourself in worrying about being dependent on him for lodging while it’s the least he can do for not protecting you or sorting this awful situation. Has it affected him too?

To try and answer a few questions, apologies there were a lot within the advice. My dad worked away a lot, he has a job where he does 4-5 weeks away then say 2 at home so he never noticed any massive purchases or money etc into the joint account. He owned the house outright as my mum has previous form of being bad with money/credit so they were never able to get a joint mortgage, he has offered to sell the house to clear the debt but he’s coming up to retirement age and none of this is his fault either so it seems stupid both of us suffering because of it, he’s worked hard all his life and done so much work on the house over the years and he doesn’t deserve it and shouldn’t be punished for making a poor choice in terms of who he married. He has helped me pay off some of the more pressing debts (the CCJ’s) and has also helped me out financially since where he can in terms of running a phone contract for me, helping me get a car etc...

I honestly have no idea what she bought in all honesty. I’d be in inclined to say that she’s put it away somewhere with the intention of always leaving but I’ve honestly got no idea. The level of interest on things she’s taken out has increased the debt considerably- she took out 10-15 payday loans each for £500-£1000 but with the interest and defaults, by the time I found out about it the debts were £3000+ for each loan. It also looks like she’s never used the phone contracts she took out, she took out 6 phone contracts with Vodafone which never had any minutes or anything used so I wonder if she just sold the handsets for cash but for all the phones on a 24 month contract the total debt for Vodafone for example was over 6k and she did the same with a few of the major phone contract players. The only thing where I’m 100% sure of what she bought is the catalogue accounts where the account statements show just general purchases like clothes/perfume/small electronics. Considering how much there is to payback there’s literally nothing at all to show for it.

The account she had the money for the payday loans paid into was in my name, it was an account my grandparents had opened for me when I was younger and paid some money in each month which it looks like she got access to following my grandads death. Initially it was a savings account I believe but somewhere along the line it got changed to a current account but I don’t know if that was done by my grandparents or my mother or just done automatically when the age for the child savings account expired.

I also have no evidence of anything she ever said/promised to do. I do have my tenancy agreements from where I was living during university but apparently because I was still on the electoral roll and all my ID was at my family home address it doesn’t stand for much.

I’ve never seen any physical signatures on any of the account information I’ve been sent over the years - for the payday loans and credit card it was an electronic signature as such which was just really “tick this box to confirm/sign the credit agreement” but I wonder if they would have a physical signature on record somewhere, I never thought about that so I may look into it.

I never thought about asking citizens advice for recommendations for solicitors who offer free legal advice either so I’ll try that too. It would be helpful if it’s something I could arrange because attempting to deal with all the creditors is exhausting, it has got easier now the CCJ’s are paid off because I have a bit of breathing space so to speak but it’s still emotionally draining.

I feel very stupid that I let myself get manipulated into this situation so I am very grateful for the helpful and supportive advice that’s been offered. I’ll keep it all in mind when I contact citizens advice and CAP.

I’m so sad for your OP and I can’t believe how common this seems!

It's to late for that. She entered into repayment agreements which effectively transferred the debt to her officially

The debt is already hers officially unless she reports it as fraud. I'm not sure making the payments make any difference to this, that applies when you take out your own loans legitimately, stop paying and then start again.

I would seriously consider reporting the mother for fraud, if it's not a police matter, could somewhere like action fraud be the way to go?

Bankruptcy without a fraud declaration means that the OP is claiming that the reckless behaviour was her doing, which could lead to a bankruptcy restriction order and even be considered to be perverting the course of justice which carries a prison sentence if caught and as it could all unravel as part of the bankruptcy procedures I wouldn't go down this route.

I'd also discuss with DF his offer to release the money by selling the house, but probably not do this either if it's going to seriously impact his retirement. I'd also not go down the route of paying the money off myself as it could take literally years YO do this and seriously set you back in life.

What an awful situation, you definitely need some sort of professional advice on this before deciding what to do.

Does your job effect you gong the bankruptcy route?

Christians against Poverty helped me clear 20K of debt in 4 years. They are amazing. It was all free, the emotional support they also give is incredible. I highly recommend them.

Fucking hell OP this is horrendous!

I still think there might be something you can do with individual companies but it might be better if any contact came from an organisation or solicitor.
I would consider contacting someone like Martin Lewis directly or asking on the MSE boards. They're really good at helping with wording for letters and appeals.

You could ask them to cancel the debt on the basis that it was never yours and that they did not do enough to confirm the identity of the applicant. Again, there will be people who could advise you about what phrases will spur them into looking into this. Their legal teams won't want claims made against them.
I know you already have and it's unlikely but it's worth a try.

With the phone contracts, I think you've got a chance of getting the debts reduced on the basis that the contracts were never used which provides some evidence to the fact that they were obtained fraudulently. Maybe they could reduce each debt to the cost of the handset if they refuse to cancel.

The payday loans is an interesting one as they are already in hot water for giving people loans they can't afford. They don't do their due diligence and they do very little to confirm identity or income.
Some companies have now closed down like Wonga and many have claims pursued against them for mis-selling.
I think you might have a better chance now of trying to get these cancelled.

It would be easier with a conviction or a court order but it's not impossible and I don't think you should give up and accept the debt is yours now.
For me, I think getting a consumer org involved like MSE is the way forward.
Good luck!

That's a good point about the impact of bankruptcy someone else made. It can affect your job prospects as well as credit rating and being able to find housing.

I know this of absolutely no practical help, but there was a podcast episode about this happening to someone else, it might help with some of the emotional side of things to hear that you’re not alone in how you feel about the situation. They also did a follow up last year (episode 125) if you like the first one

thisiscriminal.com/episode-51-money-tree-8-23-2016/

If the legal route doesn't work then I would see if your father would consider an equity release scheme. Not generally a great plan but he does bear some responsibility here. How did he not realise that she was living beyond their means for example. He knew she was bad with money but didn't question it. You would probably need some way of him acknowledgeding the debt so if he needed care you could show he was paying off his wife's debt not yours.

Did you go to live at the university at 21 and not 18? Just if you were under 21 when this happened you would have surely been underage for the loans? As you were studying you presumably had no job or income so how were loans expected to be repaid to the lenders? Also was your credit rating never checked to reveal the earlier debts unpaid so you did not qualify for further debts mounting up? Seems like your mother was having money thrown at her - no problems.

Ensure your father has up to date will. If he dies first your mother may be entitled to half of his property.

If they are not already divorced she may get half of his property and pension etc on divorce.

You both need good proper legal advice to protect your interests. She has proved she doesn’t care about your welfare. Don’t hesitate to protect yourselves against her further selfishness

You can borrow money from 18 in the UK, so her age is not a factor.

What is a factor is that, as a student, the OP wouldn't have been able to afford all the repayments, so shouldn't have been approved for most of them, hence there's an element of irresponsible lending and/or insufficient checking on the part of the creditors and/or fraud by the mother, who may have said that the OP was working in a well paid job.

Tracing where the money was paid into might go a long way to prove that this was nothing to do with the OP. From the bank's point of view, the OP could have done this herself and made up the story about living away at university and her mother making fraudulent applications.

As to whether the DF should have noticed all the spending, he worked away for long periods, so this could be easily hidden. Sounds like he was in the oil industry, which is well paid, so their lifestyle might have appeared within their means, especially if things like jewellry was bought that he never saw. Plus the £80k could include a large amount of interest, charges and PPI, inflating the amount without any benefit to the mother.

Something to consider OP, is there any chance that your DF was financially abusive? If your mother didn't have access to money, she might have done this out of desperation, not greed. If that was the case, this would justify him paying the debt off, as he's partly responsible. Also, your mother is entitled to half the value of the marital home plus maybe pension provision if she spent a long time as a SAHP, so legally, some of your DFs assets are her's, but she doesn't have access to them, having walked away.

Definitely get legal advice, but one thing that occurred to me is that people who constantly rack up this level of debt rarely change and my guess is that she is still doing the same thing wherever she is, so this may actually be helpful?

In other words, it may be possible to track her down doing a credit check, where she is probably still committing fraud, as evidence of her past fraud.