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MLM Bot Watch 18- chat about Utah based tragicomic cultastic racketeering scamalangadingdongs like Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juiceplus etc etc etc

1000 replies

chuckingstones · 08/04/2016 20:44

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66
cozietoesie · 20/04/2016 23:57

It's likely a (very loose) translation from another language, Dolly.

emmajones95 · 21/04/2016 00:00

Why are you all so against these companies? I've found my way here through various googling, and I'm confused??

stopfaffing · 21/04/2016 06:50

Morning, Emma, and welcome to the thread. Many people have found their way here through googling and now you're here, have a google look at our Timeless Vie site. Once you've read the main posts (from people who have had bag experieces with MLM), have a look at all the links on the left. Then come back with your thoughts about what you've read.

stopfaffing · 21/04/2016 06:52

Bag? I meant bad Grin

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 07:47

Welcome, emma. Smile

emmajones95 · 21/04/2016 08:08

I have read it. I just happen to think it's really unfair of you to try and poison people before they've had a chance to make up their own minds. That site you linked me to is so full of half-truths and twisted information it's funny. Hasn't anyone ever argued the other side before? Or do you kick them off the forum or something?

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 08:09

Ah.

bearbehind · 21/04/2016 08:24

Ok emma, if you think TV is made up of 'half truths and twisted information' perhaps you'd like to update us all on the whole truth and the untwisted information and argue the other side.

No one here is trying to 'poison people' - we are capable of making our minds up based on the information provided. That information leads most of us to fundamentally disagree with the whole concept of MLM's.

You are free to decide as you please but don't expect everyone to suddenly side with you unless you present a compelling case to do so.

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 08:44

If any of you have a spare 10, you might find it interesting to look at some of the latest MLM news from the States - in particular, the 'little local difficulties' that one prominent organisation is having with their 2015 disclosure statement and that another is having with insurance cover for FTC action.

Thought-provoking stuff. Smile

Toobusytowee · 21/04/2016 09:10

Hi Emma and anyone new having a look. The issues we have with MLMs are-

  • people don't make money in them but they are told they will.
  • people put a lot of time and effort and their dreams into these schemes only to have it not work.
  • when it doesn't work they are led to believe it is their own fault.
  • attraction marketing - ie people bring bad things on themselves, even plane crashes and floods. You can have anything you want just by 'being positive'.
  • fake it until you make it bollocks.
  • the legal health claims made for the wampum being sold.
  • vulnerable and desperate people targeted to buy products and join the scheme.
  • the personality takeover of new recruits (hence the term 'bots') into the inanely smiling, meme-posting, emulate-my-wonderful-lifestyle bot who will defriend friends and family if they disagree with the MLM.
  • the fake smiley 'family' that are other bots that will turn on you and bully you when you leave their MLM.
  • the sneery dislike of people with jobs and the assertion that people who have fulfilling careers that are well paid with holidays, sick pay, free training, expenses, spare time, pension are worthless and not as good as a scheme where you will lose money, have no spare time, no pension, no sick pay, no expenses.
  • the blind faith that, even when presented with all the above facts and supporting evidence, bots still think MLM is a good idea because they see people who say they are rich through it, clutching massive cheques.
  • the whole cult aspect of mind control and some very dubious methods of making people comply in these schemes.
  • the ridiculous arguments that are presented by MLM adherents that are just plain wrong e.g. It's not a pyramid scheme because the person below me can make more than me, all companies are pyramid schemes, pyramid schemes are illegal so this one must be ok as it hasn't been shut down, the MLM is in lots of countries therefore it must be ok if those governments have accepted it, if you disagree with MLMs it is because you failed at one yourself, you can't understand MLM unless you have been in one yourself.

Have I missed anything?

If you had read Timeless Vie, you would have seen all these things. Do you think we are wrong somehow? We welcome discussion and other viewpoints, we will not ban you from here. It is the MLMs that shut people down, ban them and fire them when people speak out. Free thought is allowed here.

emmajones95 · 21/04/2016 09:30

I think you've taken it all out of context. I do think that their 'let's all be positive and happy hun' thing is a bit nauseating, but I think the actual basis of it is ok. I've been in several, and it's like anything else - if you work hard you'll make money. They are not get rich quick schemes and they don't claim to be as far as I'm aware. They're just a way of people making a bit of extra money. I think they're great for mums or other people who are stuck at home. What's the difference between spending £30 on a foundation from an MLMer or spending £30 on one in Boots? Is it that you're saying the products are shoddy? That's a whole different thing, but in my experience, on the whole, they're not.

'People don't make money but are told they will' is a massively sweeping statement, and is in fact incorrect. Some will, some won't. Just like those who sell old records on eBay or books on Amazon, or anyone in fact who does any sort of work for themselves. The fact that it's an MLM is irrelevant. They'll either work hard and it and make money or they won't.

I do happen to think there should be a cap on 'presenters' or whatever the different companies call them, because in the end the market gets saturated and it makes it harder and harder for people to sell. But the same could be said for corner shops or garages or anything else - competition can get so high that you get pushed out of the market. That's business the world over though.

The way you talk here is very scaremongering. These things work for some people, and are not as black and 'cult-like' as you say.

Also, I've left 4 of these companies over the years and NOT ONCE have I been bullied or turned on for leaving. This is absolute rubbish. Why would they anyway? When someone leaves their upline ends up with the leavers downline??? Who is there to complain about someone leaving?

Furthermore, MLMs can be a life-changer for people stuck at home. I remember a very long time ago when I was younger, stuck at home, agoraphobic - this was before the internet. Had online MLM work been around at the time I would have been a MUCH happier person - I would have had a focus, online friends and a bit of money coming in.

You're just being very unfair, and I think people should be shown both sides of the argument more. If you don't like MLMs then fine - don't do them. But why do you have to be so nasty and sarcastic about them and about the people who choose to do them?

P.S. My newsfeed is full of non-MLMers who constantly moan and whine about their lives - kids not going to bed, the price of things, the weather, their spouses, their parents, their job - all the people who put up statuses saying 'omg totally had enough' - then someone says 'what's wrong' and they say 'PM me hun'. LOL these people are not MLMers or 'bots' - do you slate those negative, depressing, energy-zapping people too? Or just the ones posting positive statuses trying to make a few extra quid? Would you rather they sat on their bums playing their PS4 like some do? At least they're having a go!!!!!!

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 09:41

If the large insurance companies decided - as is their right - that they weren't going to extend coverage to MLMs after all.........

darceybussell · 21/04/2016 09:45

Sorry Emma but I'm afraid it's not that sweeping a statement. Lots of clever people have produced lots of analysis and statistics and found that in the majority of MLMs the percentage of participants who make a loss is greater that 99%. When you look at statistics like that you can see that people get a bit upset when their friends and family join thinking they will make some extra money. Perhaps you don't see that among your friends, and if so then great, but that doesn't mean the statistic is inaccurate.

Some of the stats for Herbalife in particular are pretty shocking.

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 09:50

Which particular stats, darcey? A certain prominent MLM appears to have got its 2015 disclosure statement - the 'original version' at least - more than a little skew-whiff. Wink

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 09:51

Which, if true, would be unfortunate timing for them, given their current dealings with the FTC.

stopfaffing · 21/04/2016 10:07

Hi Emma, you've left four MLM companies in the past? Which ones? Why did you leave them? Was it costing you too much time and money to make commission? I'm glad you were not vilified by your MLM 'friends' when you left. We've heard distressing testimony from people who were treated badly by people they thought were friends in their MLM.

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 10:11

Insurance companies being - if not exactly 'risk-averse' - more than a little 'risk-aware'. Smile

Toobusytowee · 21/04/2016 10:11

Emma, have you ever looked at a disclosure statement? Where they tell you how much money you are likely to earn? They tend to show you will make tens of pounds to, at most, a couple of thousand of pounds a year. In schemes where it costs hundreds to thousands to qualify for these payments. And when you take into account expenses, training, P&P, time, own purchases of products, you will end up making a loss.

I don't know why people get bullied when they leave MLMs but we know it happens. Maybe because the person leaving is no longer spending money of products so their upline loses the commission? Maybe because they will stop recruiting and bringing in more commission for the upline? I'm not saying everyone gets bullied, just that we have seen it happen quite often.

Toobusytowee · 21/04/2016 10:15

Cozie, have you got a link about that insurance stuff? I'd like to read up about that. Thanks.

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 10:28

It's an easy Google, Toobusy, to start you off. Just use the obvious search terms. Wink

cozietoesie · 21/04/2016 10:32

After all, if you were to want to look behind MLMs, who am I to stop you? Grin

bearbehind · 21/04/2016 11:21

Emma, do you not find it insulting that the majority of money is made by the recruitment process and, in order to increase their down-line, bots openly lie on social media about what they earn, what they are doing and what the company have paid for in order to present a lifestyle to aspire to for no reason other than trying to get them to sign up and in turn make money out of them.

DayToDayGlobalShit · 21/04/2016 11:28

Welcome Emma.

Could you let us know why you left 4 MLM companies and which ones they were? Asking out of interest because leaving 4 which are supposedly making you money seems a bit daft.

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