MLM bot watch - Continued discussion of the network marketing companies Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus etc as a pyramid scheme or scam

[CheekySmile]

Still continuing the discussion of the various network marketing schemes or multi-level marketing schemes (MLMs) that people we know are involved in.

If you have an MLM bot of your own then join us and share their claims and content.

Or if you are researching a company before signing up to be a network marketer please take a look at the previous threads here and here and also this thread which delves deeper into the workings of MLMs.

And don't forget our very own MN MLM Timeless Vie!
www.facebook.com/timelessvie
www.twitter.com/timelessvie
www.timelessvie.wordpress.com

Does anyone have Sajid Javid, Anna Soubry or Ed Vaizy as their MPs? They are the Govt Ministers for The Department of Business, Innovation & Skills. Any constituent can lobby their MPs about issues that bother them and ask them to write to Ministers on their behalf but it seems far more effective when a Minister is lobbied directly by a constituent.

Alternatively Angela Eagle is the Labour Shadow Minister. A strong advocate for women's issues, she might be a good bet.

excuse my random rambling thoughts on the presentation (second link from gimlet)

I find it Odd how she keeps saying 'we' 'we own...' 'we are in...' 'we came over...' when she has zero stocks/shares in the company.

Also do we have proof of how much a CC is from that presentation wholesale £159 and retail being £227. So... getting the 4 CC a month that's over £800 of retail sold?

Does she actually say at about 17:55 in that they are paid given a bonus for sponsoring people into it? and on the next slide the sponsoring bonus goes up?

Still scratching my head over the numbers.

If there is a diamond manager who has 25 personally sponsored managers how many managers do the managers have? Do they still count if the managers then leave? I mean If they sponsor someone to manager status and that person jacks it in does that still count towards their numbers or do they have to be active?

yes, I'm trying to get how it works and these are all questions I'd ask if this me listening. I'd be a total pain in the arse

It makes me laugh when they say, 'why make momey for your boss when you can make it for yourself?' When the truth is that you are making money for your upline.
If they want more truthful analogies, the way fl works, its as if you were the office junior and you were made to give her a percentage of your income to your boss, forced to spend a certain amount on work clothes every month or you'd get sacked!

i love you all madly for keeping this thread going over xmas.

watched the vids. she is definitely going from a script and she's saying whatever she has to say to suck more people into her downline so she has the ethics of a fruitfly. I too noticed her vague promises and statements (it's changed my life! how? concrete example please) and outright lies (you will make your money back! etc). My fave bit of bs was when she claimed the DSA (direct sales association) and the investors in people awards were proof the company has been checked out and approved by the UK government. um, no. having an investors in people award does not not mean it's a scam, lady.

another thought:

ironically, her doing yet another recruitment video when she's been a fancy pants manager so rich omg so rich for 21 months PROVES that no matter how high you go you have to keep on recruitin, recruitin, recruitin due to turnover.

My other fave lie was when she said with a straight face that she had no time to coach anyone because so amazing and busy and rich, but in she would do it for you, if YOU bought a starter pack before Jan and joined (gotta make those numbers to keep her status). but then she really gave it away when she said later she'd be visiting scotland. so which is it. are you too busy to coach or not woman?

she must be drooling over scotland. so many victims

new post: timelessvie.wordpress.com/2015/12/27/when-is-a-bot-not-a-bot-when-shehe-is-a-lifestyle-coach-business-owner-stylist-presenter-etc-etc-etc/

gimlet, some musings after watching the six minute video.

She mentions a "holiday" in Cancun she is has been awarded and, even more importantly, at 2:47 mentions qualifying for the first level car plan which "gives me extra money for three years towards the car of my choice". Now we know it is a HP agreement.

Repeating ( from another video) "I don't say to impress you but to impress upon you".

Repeating (from another video) "...recommending products, that's all that we are doing is recommending the products, and using them ourselves..." omitting the constant fb saturation, badgering of family, friends etc.

Another interesting quote stating a claim that could be checked out: "fl have patented the way that they extract the aloe vera gel from the aloe vera plant...the aloe vera in our bottles is as active in the bottles as in the plant, and this gives us a superior product that really, really works."

She goes on to say "no other company could copy our products". But we know that there are superior products out there already; natural, organic aloe vera products for sale at an affordable price.

They are looking for:-
Retailers (just selling to regular customers, earning £200-£400 per month.
Business Leaders: develop a team, earning £800-£2000+ per month.
Business Developers: earning £2000-£20,000+ per month.

"Free holidays", two a year, is mentioned again. No detail about them being training sessions though.

Chairman's Bonus is described "profit share, where the company cut up some of the profits and give them back to us.

So much not mentioned. They'll find out in due course though .

This is a wonderful series of threads. I haven't posted before but have followed, and now have my very own bot.

It's quite a sad situation - she has a partner with severe MH issues and was working full time. She had a reasonable, steady and secure income and has just packed it all in to sell FL products. Started with an "online sale', which didn't shift anything and is now focusing on recruitment.

I find the whole thing so incredibly immoral. She's talking about changing her life, freedom and happiness, when really all she's done is invite uncertainty and additional pressure into her life.

I really want to say something but it won't be welcomed.

Stop,
Just an idea... Could we put a shout out in chat for anyone who works in the beauty industry who might know about these things?

I've messaged a few of the dead 'global business mentor' pages on Facebook, you know they are dead when the FL link takes you to the same landing page. Just asked, 'what happened to your business?' So far, silence. No one involved seems to want to talk about it.

£120 a month for toiletries and vitamins is a ridiculous amount. I think my personal spend is about £10 a month!
Save that rather than spend it and thats a holiday, just goes to show how un- free that free holiday actually is.

Great idea siwi. Sometimes I wonder if the audience would be extended if we posted elsewhere. AIBU to find these MLM scams completely unethical?

Good idea sminky. I hadn't made the connection between the global landing page and their business being dead but it makes sense.

Yes lazy coo!
And we can all clamber in to recommend timeless vie.
I did that once and the very next post was something along the lines of
'TimelessVie! That sounds like a low rent copycat rip off of Forever Living!'
:)

Gimlet1984 the pic of your fl girls bonus looks genuine. It's paid on the 15th of each month and my payments came from 'forever living pro' too. So I would say she's telling the truth. If one month, she didn't get her 4cc's she wouldn't get that bonus. So when you're earning that amount, you can buy 4cc's yourself no problem as you still get paid well above it.

bettyberry Wholesale is £159 and retail is £227 so that's over £900 in retail if you don't sponsor someone to make sure you do your 4cc's. It's a lot, isn't it

Also, if you had a manager and they stopped, you would then get paid on what her team does, you kinda become their substitute manager (but not direct sponsor, which connects in with getting paid CB - it's all very complicated) so still putting in the work with them and you'll still get paid on that leg.

That's why you're told to go wide and deep so you're always developing a downline so if someone drops out your pay won't drop too much. It only really affects bonuses if you've got to sapphire and you're getting your 'gem' bonus. If one of your 9 managers stops then you stop getting your gem, until you get back up to at least 9.

All this info is online but it took me ages to understand it all.

*Ray8 you really have the perfect username. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us on this thread.

And I clearly still can't use BOLD despite me being on MN for years.

I feel stressed on their behalf, sounds like an absolute nightmare. How one finds enough cactus drinkers, it seems as if its a relentless stressful game of keepy uppy. No wonder every interaction with a bot ends with, 'have you got any friends who might be interested?'

Ray, what if one of your managers gets to the same level as you or overtakes you, do you lose all their downline too and have to start that leg again?

That's interesting Ray, I wonder where her money goes then if it is a genuine payment because her car is leased and she rents an apartment on her own. I guess it's on fuel and other business costs.

Barnbot goes on about £160k turnover. I want to know what the net profit is!

darcybussell no, that's why it's pretty genius and was sold to me that I could actually earn more than my sponsor.

For example, you could have 2 managers in your downline (so you're senior manager) but one of those direct managers has built their team far quicker than you so could have 5 direct managers in their team (soaring manager)

You still get a % from all your downline but overall the soaring manager would be earning more than you as they have built a bigger business.

But (another confusing bit) up until soaring manager, you need to do 12cc's outside your manager legs in order to be paid your bonus on them. (not 12cc personal, just anyone in your team who isn't a manager yet doing cc's)