Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Money matters

Find financial and money-saving discussions including debt and pension chat on our Money forum. If you're looking for ways to make your money to go further, sign up to our Moneysaver emails here.

'FL / MLM' Thread 3

648 replies

Eyespying · 12/08/2015 08:43

Continuing the valuable discussion of 'Forever Living' and other 'MLM/commercial' cults.

OP posts:
Eyespying · 27/08/2015 10:22

What a surprise, the mainstream media is only now reporting the 'Vemma' racket.

www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2015/08/26/federal-trade-commission-calls-vemma-a-pyramid-scheme-that-preys-on-young-adults/

OP posts:
Eyespying · 27/08/2015 10:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Eyespying · 29/08/2015 11:50

I'm interested to know if there there any MN readers from Hailsham in Sussex?, because your town is evidently in the early stages of being infected by an 'Income Opportunity' racket which has beeen tailored to deceive struggling small-business owners.

behindmlm.com/companies/lyoness/uk-politician-wants-whole-town-signed-up-as-lyoness-affiliates/

OP posts:
OP posts:
Annie65 · 31/08/2015 16:03

They pop up everywhere, I would be thinking "what a nice lady" if I didnt know any betterHmm

Eyespying · 31/08/2015 18:24

Annie65 - Few people have wanted to confront what really lies behind this type of affinity pretending by 'FLP' adherents.

From my own research, I know that for many years now, if any individual, and/or family, attracts media attention due to events likely to have caused emotional distress, they risk being approached by opportunist 'MLM' recruiters offering 'help and support' - (apparently) out of the kindness of their hearts.

OP posts:
Eyespying · 01/09/2015 22:53

The 'MLM' cultic racket known as 'Vemma' was finally shut-down by the US FTC last week.

This week, a trickle of the most-deluded 'Vemma' core-adherents have started to post reality-inverting (paranoid) material on the Internet, in which they try to convince the world that 'Vemma' was an innocent, and entirely legal, enterprise selling a good-value 'health product/energy drink' whilst offering a 'viable income opportunity,' and that the company was, therefore, unjustly attacked, because 'the US federal government hates MLM.'

In reality, the price of 'Vemma's Verve,' was fixed at more than $40 per can. Thus, because this cheaply-procured 'MLM' wampum could not be regularly sold for a profit to members of the general public (with fully functioning critical and evaluative faculties) a never-ending chain of would-be 'Vemma' millionaires have actually been deceived into buying a regular quota of the wampum each month and attempting to recruit others to do exactly the same (based on the false-expectation of a future reward).

OP posts:
Eyespying · 01/09/2015 23:04
OP posts:
Annie65 · 02/09/2015 08:22

Wow Eye, could there be a light at the end of the tunnel ? I really hope so. The more I find out about fl, the more I worry about my sil. At the moment I suspect shè has lost a bit of money, but I know she has child-care issues and she likes the thought of "sacking her boss". Thats when the trouble will really start if it gets to that. I really think the authorities need to step in and start investigating all of these Mlms, but with all the red tape that slows things down, it could be too late for my sil and others. Sad

Eyespying · 02/09/2015 09:03

Annie65- In respect of US law enforcement and 'MLM' cultic racketeering, I wouldn't hold my breath.

There were (impressive-looking) telephone numbers given on the recent press release about 'Vemma' (apparently) so that anyone could contact the FTC's Office of Public Affairs. For obvious reasons, these telephone didn't work, because the obvious questions which certain well-informed observers (including myself) want to ask the boys and girls at FTC are:

  • By applying common-sense, and concentrating purely on the quantifiable evidence (i.e. the effectively total lack of any transient participant ever having generated an overall net-profit during the previous 60+ years) what would the FTC say has been the exact material difference between 'Vemma' and any other ( demonstrably-reality-inverting) so-called 'MLM income opportunity?'
  • How is it possible that agents of the FTC have allowed this blatantly obvious criminogenic (cultic) phenomenon to have polluted the USA, and by default, the rest of the planet?
  • How have all the persons at the FTC directly responsible for this chronic debacle had the cheek to keep calling themselves 'regulators' and to keep cashing their salary cheques?

-What's the point of tackling so-called 'MLM' income opportunities individually, when, by the time one gets closed, several more have appeared?

OP posts:
Eyespying · 02/09/2015 09:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Annie65 · 02/09/2015 10:25

Eye, I had a feeling you would say that. The only way anything would be done quickly is if it affected the" powers that be" personally, and not in a nice way. I just hope my sil comes to her senses before its too late. If she asked me personally to join her team I could try to tell her everything I know, but she knows Im not interested and would say its nothing to do with me.Sad

Eyespying · 02/09/2015 11:06

Annie65 - I've considered this problem for a long time, and I've concluded that if successive US governments really had trusted in the free-market (as all of them have claimed), then free-market policies would have been applied to the problem of organized frauds, and significant cash rewards would have been offered to whistleblowers and to any US law enforcement agents prepared to take swift (and rigorous) action in defence of their employers (the people).

Instead, whistleblowers have been ignored and generations of (low-paid) legally-qualified, US law enforcement agents (who have completely failed to act in defence of the people) have been, and continue to be, co-opted by 'MLM' racketeers (using wads of stolen money).

We've long-since arrived at the stage where the 'MLM' phenomenon has become a putrid a can of worms, which few people want to open, least of all in the USA.

OP posts:
xenu1 · 02/09/2015 13:44

MLM scams, like cults and psychic healers, are often awkward for TPTB to handle. In fairness, without complaints no-one can act. And any politician attending an MLM rally would see only many enthusiastic supporters, all vehemently asserting their voluntary enthusiasm for the organisation.

Eyespying · 02/09/2015 15:17

xenu1 Clearly what you describe as 'MLM scams' are not just 'like cults:' they are cults, not because I say so, but because, despite their thought- stopping external 'commercial/capitalist' camouflage, internally, these groups have exhibited very specific identifying characteristics.

One of these tell-tale signs, is that inflexible core cult adherents always insist that they alone represent the truth and are excercizing free will, when all the independent quantifiable evidence demonstrates that virtually everything in the adherents' lives has become controlled by sociopathic, or psychopathic, self-appointed leaders with hidden criminal objectives, and that the adherents' controlled behaviour is, therefore (at best), misguided, and (at worst) downright evil.

The plain truth of the matter is that trade regulators have been completely unqualified and powerless to recognize, let alone combat, the historically significant criminogenic phenomenon that has actually been lurking behind the thought-stopping, pseudo-economic term 'Multi-Level Marketing.'

When you talk to 'The Powers That Be' in private, it's surprising how many of them are prepared to confess to their own ignorance of the cult phenomenon and, consequently, to their fear of openly discussing it, let alone tackling it. Thus, to date, virtually no member of TPTB has been prepared to tell the truth in public.

For obvious reasons, all manner of charlatans and co-opted academics have expanded into this tragicomic moral, and intellectual, vacuum, and they have flatly denied the existence of the cult phenomenon. They have also falsely painted well-informed observers as dangerous alarmists, merely for trying to raise public consciousness.

Legalistically, in the USA, and many other democracies, there is still no such thing as cultism, but ask any cosmopolitan person and he/she will freely-admit that cults most certainly do exist.

OP posts:
ambler21 · 03/09/2015 22:25

I've been following these threads with interest.
It seems the Advertising Standards Agency has recently been looking into some FLP marketing.
Summary - www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/146660-/
Wordy - www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2015/9/Forever-Living-Products-(UK)-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_293201.aspx#.VeimgPlVhE9

Eyespying · 03/09/2015 23:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twinsanity · 04/09/2015 13:42

On a day when many on social media are reflecting on the refugee crisis, all my FLBots are as jarringingly upbeat and excited as ever about their Skype meetings in Pjs, cheeky wines over lunch, 2016 year planners etc etc etc etc #annoying and inane

Twinsanity · 04/09/2015 13:43

Jarringly - if that's even a word

Eyespying · 05/09/2015 09:24

Twinsanity Your FLbots will almost certainly be convinced that by promoting the 'MLM business opportunity' (even in this inane fashion), they are serving a much higher purpose.

www.foreverliving.com/marketing/Page.do?name=forever_giving

As part of an overall pattern of ongoing major racketeering activity, virtually all 'MLM' bosses have infiltrated traditional culture by creating smokescreen charities, or by giving a portion of their stolen funds to authentic existing charities.

For obvious reasons 'MLM' bosses have tended to pick children's charities, because these have the maximum (intended) emotional effect on their victims and on casual observers.

When seen in the wider-context, these (apparently) philanthropic acts were actually designed to obstruct justice in order to continue to commit fraud. The fact that these acts have been broadcast very loudly, demonstrates their hidden criminal purpose

e.g. This morning it was trumpeted that the bosses of the 'Herbalife' racket are going to dole-out more cash to 'help' poor children in India.

www.financialexpress.com/article/companies/herbalife-launches-third-phase-of-casa-herbalife-program-with-smile-foundation-2/130472/

What better way to prevent Indian victims of the 'Herbalife' fairy story from facing reality and complaining?

Using these, and other, similar subversive tactics, the authors of various copy-cat 'MLM' fairy stories continue to dodge criminal investigation and bleed billions of dollars from a never-ending chain of vulnerable people around the globe.

Even Al Capone gave (very publicly) to charity.

OP posts:
Eyespying · 05/09/2015 11:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

stopfaffing · 05/09/2015 16:12

Just looking on another fl thread and it's mentioned on one of the youtube clips that fl have a Gold award Investors in People. I've googled and found that it seems to be true, in November 2010 they state that they satisfied the requirement for Gold award IIP.

Eyespying · 05/09/2015 17:07

stopfaffing - As I'm sure you have deduced, impressive-sounding awards like this, have little bearing on whether a corporate structure might be a front for organized crime and a cult.

This is just a brief taste of the far-from-rigorous report produced by 'Investors in People' relating to the front company for the 'FLP' cultic racket in the UK.

"In relation to charitable causes, many commented on ‘Forever Giving’, the Company’s international charitable foundation. It was also noted that in the UK, Forever Business Owners selected Macmillan Cancer Support which has benefitted from a range of fundraising activities, including a sports day on which the staff worked for free and donated their salaries to the organisation."

www.foreverknowledge.info/index.php?id=40177

Some of the key-common-sense questions, the answers to which reveal the extensive psychological, and financial, abuse which has been lurking behind 'FLP UK Ltd.' but which were of absolutely no concern to the wide-eyed boys and girls from 'Investors in People,' were:

  • Since the company's instigation, exactly how many people in total have signed annual contatcs with 'FLP UK Ltd.' in which they were arbitrarily defined as 'Distributors/ Independent Business Owners,' etc.
  • Exactly how many of these people remain under contract to 'FLP Ltd.'
  • Exactly how many of these of these former contractees got back more money from 'FLP' than they gave to the organization (including all their time, effort and allied expenses)?
  • What percentage (by value) of 'FLP UK Ltd.s' claimed 'sales' have been lawful (and profitable) transactions made by contractees to members of the general public (based entirely on value and demand) rather than unlawful losing investment-payments made by the organization's own constantly-churning insolvent contractees (based on their false-expectation of future reward), but laudered as lawful sales?
OP posts:
OP posts:
Annie65 · 07/09/2015 15:33

Wow exactly the same as all the other mlms. I know more about FL as its personal to me, but Ive had a look at the others, the only difference I can see between them is they sell a different product.

Swipe left for the next trending thread