'FL / MLM' Thread 3

[Eyespying]

Continuing the valuable discussion of 'Forever Living' and other 'MLM/commercial' cults.

Some of you may appreciate this short film

vimeo.com/106241499

Thanks ambler21 This short movie has previously received very little attention. Most people who have never encountered gung-ho 'MLM' adherents would not believe that the absurd robotic characters portrayed in it, are essentially true to life.

The towns of Grand Rapids and Ada, Michigan, which feature in the movie, have been effectively-owned by the bosses of the 'Amway' racket for decades. They bought these with $ billions stolen (right under the noses of regulators) from a never-ending chain comprising tens of millions of vulnerable people all around the world; including approximately one million British citizens (1973-2006).

fox17online.com/2015/07/01/amway-family-fireworks-in-grand-rapids-july-4/

To give MN members some idea of the depth to which the pernicious 'MLM income opportunity' lie has been allowed to infiltrate traditional business, the Korean communications Giant, 'LG UPlus,' has lately been caught operating a form of dissimulated pyramid scheme evidently copied from US-based 'MLM income opportunity' cultic racketeers.

koreaittimes.com/story/51341/lgu-calls-accusations-its-multilevel-marketing-tactics-%E2%80%9Cunfair%E2%80%9D

It's also interesting to note that, when faced with investigation, the bosses of 'LG U+' have immediately claimed that they have not been breaking the law or have been alone in using an 'MLM business model,' but all the same, they politely offered to reform any 'disributor's' fraudulent activities which might come to light, just to make sure their own 'MLM business' will, henceforth, be in compliance with Korean law.

Again, these affinity-pretending tactics have evidently been copied from US-based 'MLM income opportunity' cultic racketeers.

Quote from film:-

"people have to buy the products from themselves to get sales up, they are customers not employees"

nor are they or .

stopfaffing - Lots of people (including the boys and girls at the US FTC) are finally twigging that all the countless millions of losing participants in hundreds of 'Amway' copy-cat so-called 'MLM income opportunities,' have not even been 'customers,' let alone 'business owners' (as they were falsely-described in their take-it-or-leave-it-contracts).

seekingalpha.com/article/3512816-bill-ackman-missed-one-thing-in-his-herbalife-vs-vemma-comparison?auth_param=2rl3n:1avhglf:50cf27e3fd2281bed9592e02b820a918&uprof=52

About 5 years ago, I made essentially the same observations contained in the recent insightful 'Seeking Alpha' article linked above, and concluded that the 'MLM' bosses' ultimate absurd defence would be:

'Read the seller as buyer, stupid, and then theft is legal!'

Thanks for the article links Eye. Like most I struggle understanding the endless intricacies intentionally woven into MLM business structures. These articles did clarify a few things for me, the seeking alpha article in particular (registration required). It makes perfect sense why former MLM adherents would say they were merely a retail customer if questioned after the fact. It would take a lot of courage to admit to yourself that you had been duped, let alone admit to friends, family and the wider public.
Since a dear friend became involved in FL I have done a lot of research around the subject. I would be interested to know your opinion on a few things.
Firstly, do you believe herbalife will eventually follow the route of vemma, and if so will this have a snowball effect on other MLMs?
Also, is there a tried and tested way to approach talking to loved ones about concerns with MLM without simply becoming one of the negative influences that should be removed from their lives for their 'business' to succeed?
Thanks

Ambler
One approach to getting someone to realise that they are in a cult is to discuss other 'cults', in this case, mlm schemes. And point out the illogical.
No point at all in criticising whichever one they are into because they will dig their heels in. I read that somewhere.

Pampered Chef is closing in the UK this year.

I'm not sure whether the mathematical impossibilities or the negative publicity will be the final blow.

Thanks Fish.
I get the idea from the few open conversations I've had with my friend that he is aware there are cult traits to FL. I have made it clear that I think he's being conned. I think that he believes he will be one of the few who can milk the ignorant masses within the cult, which itself is a disturbing thought. I know that he is part of a high up FLbots secret facebook 'power team', where the ideals of the 'business opportunity' are much more explicitly stated. Statements such as 'there is NOBODY I can't recruit' are tossed about. If it wasn't a lifelong friend I could roll on the floor laughing at these people.

I can't remember who, on one of these threads, who is concerned about a friend has decided to act as you do when your friend goes out with a bastard. She won't listen and you just have to be there for her when it all goes wrong, iyswim.

Come over to the mlmbot watch thread.
You'll love it and also, there could be an exciting opportunity for you to earn whilst working from home.

ambler21 Far from struggling, I think you already see this very clearly, because as you observed, cults initially can seem too absurd to be dangerous. It's the scale of 'MLM' cultic racketeering, and the depth to which it's been allowed to gnaw into our culture, which is almost impossible to take in.

Concerning your friend, please feel free to contact me by e-mail.

I have important information which should be of great interest to you, but which cannot be publicly disclosed.

[email protected]

From my own (originally ill-informed) experience, I now know that it can be an enormous mistake to under-estimate the danger of criminogenic cultic groups like 'FLP.' That said, few adherents persist for extended periods. In general, the higher an opinion your friend has of himself, and the more cash, and/or income, and/or capital assets, and/or credit, he has acess to: the more danger he is in. If he has none, or only a limited quantity, of these, then he won't be able to continue, and his 'FLP' handlers will soon lose interest in him.

What's your friend had to say about the 'Mormon' angle?

Concerning your 'Herbalife/Vemma' question. I think that without Ackman's very public and well-financed 'Herbalife' intervention (which was based on original 'MLM' research and analysis which certain enterprising third parties sold to him after they'd found these freely-available on the Net), 'Vemma' would not have been closed so rapidly. It can only now be a matter of time before the bell tolls for 'Herbalife,' and then the entire 'MLM' monopoly of information should finally be broken. Ackman has excluded all public mention of cultism and never said a word about the wider 'MLM' phenomenon, but ironically, he and his people, are now all over the 'Vemma' racket.

You should understand that a syndicate of wealthy 'MLM' racketeers have effectively bought political protection in the USA, and it's taken the second Obama adminstration (and the intervention of someone backed by $ billions with a mind like a razor, combined with deep sense of morality), to begin to change this tragicomic situation.

Prior to these events, even the most well-informed and determined persons (like myself and Robert FitzPatrick and others) were largely ignored.

damn posted on the old threads again! confused!

I'm glad this thread still lives! Finding this thread is like discovering a radio channel of salvation from the FLbots - (or as I like to call them, 'walkers' from the Walking Dead. completely zombified!!) I'm relieved to know there are others with EXACTLY the same thoughts on it all as me.

I've now made it though thread 1 and it has really given me some laugh-out-loud moments - you're all hilarious. I've ended up knowing quite a lot about MLM (specifically FL) though studying it after my close friend got suckered in much to my disbelief. I've since become weirdly fascinated by all the bonkers motivational posts, 'horizon' images, white range rovers and hashtag bingo. Whoever said "Like Rubbernecking at an accident" and "seeking daily doses of cringe" hit it right on the head.

I know it has been mentioned, but it is kind of great that most of these MLM's are the brainchild of Mormons. You want to watch the intro video to the Younique brand. Note the woman with really bad makeup - but the first bit with the man crying is GOLD. AS IF he is shedding a tear about his passion to simply 'empower women' or whatever. LOL These founders are also latter-day saints :-S

www.youniqueproducts.com/business/about

I could rant on about it for ages, but i made some memes to sum it up (couldn't resist after someone mentioned we should do that to counteract theirs!) Feel free to share - I feel I personally can't on the likes of FB because there's that close friend I don't want to upset after she has already been sucked in. I tried to put some sound information together for them about the facts & risks involved, but she has already been brainwashed. Have decided to just leave her to it and hope she will come to her senses by herself. I was too late to even chop off the arm and stop the infection spreading :-(

i made more memes but ran out of images to post for the day :-( you can find them here if interested.. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2417524-FL-thread-2?msgid=56623506#56623506

mobiousgeek Thank-you for a fascinating contribution. Again, I would extend the same invitation to you, to contact me (in confidence) directly, because I have important information for anyone who has been an 'MLM' adherent or who has a friend, or relative, trapped in an 'MLM' cult.

Unfortuantely, I cannot post this information publicly.

[email protected]

Mobious, great pics thx! Eyespying is as usual informative and clear, again many thx. I understand MN-ers, under the "if you cant beat em, join em" principle have launched their own awesome business opportunity "Timeless VIE" - financial freedom thru parsley,
www.facebook.com/timelessvie?fref=nf

ambler, loved the film. FB site www.facebook.com/grandzeromovie
many thx!

xenu1 "If you can't beat em, join em."

I would strongly advise anyone with a friend or relative trapped inside 'FLP' to watch this documentary and consider the fact that the multi-millionaire instigator of the 'FLP' racket, Rex Maughan, once paid to be subjected to the same co-ordinated devious techniques of social, psychological and physical persuasion which his ill-informed 'FLP' followers have paid to be subjected to, and which they seek to peddle (on behalf of their multi-millionaire leader) to other ill-informed individuals. Furthermore, as a pious 'Mormon, Rex Maughan has been obliged to give 10% of his net-'MLM' racketeering income to the pious 'Elders' of the 'Mormon Church.'

I would particularly invite MN members to watch the video (linked above) where, at approximately 19 minutes, (de facto slave) British 'Mormon' boy-adherents (labelled somewhat misleadingly as 'Elders') are specifically instructed how to seek out persons in a vulnerable psychological/financial state in order to pretend affinity with them and recruit them.

Spy cant get on it, saying its got content from channel 4 and its blocked because of copyright.

Annie65 try Googling Youtube France and then search for the same documentary via Youtube France.

That might work?

Annie65 Here's another link to the same documentary.

www.channel4.com/programmes/meet-the-mormons/on-demand

www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/146660-/

www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumers/2015/09/18/vemma-pyramid-scheme-case-federal-judge-ruling/32571325/

A federal judge barred Vemma Nutrition Co. from resuming normal operations Friday and appointed a monitor to oversee its business practices, saying there was little doubt the energy-drink maker was operating a pyramid scheme.

U.S. District Court Judge John Tuchi prohibited the Tempe-based company from paying commissions, recruiting new members, offering rewards for purchases and tying sales to multi-level marketing.

The ruling guts the core of Vemma's multilevel marketing operation and supports a Federal Trade Commission lawsuit filed last month seeking to shut down the company for operating an illegal pyramid scheme.

"The evidence before the Court leaves little doubt that the FTC will ultimately succeed on the merits in demonstrating that Vemma is operating a pyramid scheme," Tuchi wrote in his 27-page ruling, which characterized Veema's marketing material as deceptive and misleading. "Some Vemma material also contains representations the Court would characterize as ridiculous — bordering on absurd — such that a listener could not reasonably be expected to believe them."

'Volkswagen' has hit the headlines this week, but few people seem to have any real knowledge of the tragicomic origins of the company; for until, 1945, the 'People's Car' was an enormous lie hiding in plain sight.

Thus, the even-bigger 'MLM People's Business' lie, turns out to be neither original nor unique, and consequently, it cannot be fully-understood in isolation.

mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.fr/2015/09/volkswagen-scandal-2015-nothing.html

www.youtube.com/watch?t=247&v=3En4ipNC6vw
www.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=LBpX0pkWKDY

As a perfect illustration of how 'MLM' propaganda has been a tragicomic inversion of quantifiable reality, the 'Vemma' racketeers had even stolen Charlie Chaplin's famous anti-'fascist / Nazi' speech from his satirical movie, 'The Great Dictator.'

Hi

there's an indepth article on Herbalife in this month's Fortune magazine
fortune.com/2015/09/09/the-siege-of-herbalife/
Its biz-oriented, describes the soak-the-sales-force pattern of MLMs, but is ambivalent on HL. It's hard to find victims, as most adherents are supportive. Worth a read.

"If the products are not consumed but, rather, pile up in distributors’ garages, that means there’s no real demand for them; distributors are just buying them to manipulate the compensation plan, and the company is a pyramid scheme. A common feature of pyramid schemes is “inventory loading,” where new distributors are pressured to buy more product than they can resell or consume."

"Hughes wrote for Herbalife a comically complex, 27-page compensation plan. Such impenetrability is typical of MLM remuneration schemes. Critics say these are intended to perplex the recruit, leaving him no choice but to trust what the recruiter tells him. Defenders of the Herbalife plan say its complexity arises from efforts to reward diligence, punish laziness, and ensure fairness."