'FL / MLM' Thread 3

[Eyespying]

Continuing the valuable discussion of 'Forever Living' and other 'MLM/commercial' cults.

What really annoys me is when they say "we want to help other people change their lives". Liars, all of them. Why not admit, you're doing it for the money (you wont get), admit you're human like the rest of us, and you want to recruit other people to get yourselves further up the ladder. Sorry about the rant, but it really does piss me off.

Annie65 - 'MLM' adherents are certainly not telling the truth, but (in the majority of cases) they aren't lying (in the strict sense of the word) when they insist that they want to help people. Sadly, core-'MLM' adherents have been tricked into living the classic cultic lie that, by 'investing' their own cash, working long-hours for no immediate reward and selflessly-helping others, they will ultimately gain limitless benefits themselves.

That said there are some wicked persons who get involved with 'MLM' cults and who know damn-well they are lying, but they continue all the same.

If you want to get good people to do wicked things, all that's required is to convert them to a non-rational, closed-logic, ritual belief which keeps telling them to ignore external reality. History proves that you can trick human beings into committing the most heinous crimes, simply by persuading them that their actions will ultimately be to a much greater good, and, therefore, anyone opposing them, is evil.

Everyone seems to recognise cultism when cult leaders trick their followers into committing suicide, but few people recognise the exactly same phenomenon when the followers are tricked into committing financial suicide.

Even though this evidence-based analysis is balatantly obvious, and irrefutable, few people seem to want to accept it.

Spy, this is horrible, its like the people at the meeting found it funny that people were failing. I know they are brain-washed at this point, but where is their humanity? Its as though they look at people as though they are products themselves, I know I could never be like this as I always worry and feel sorry for people (sometimes too much). I know all the other "cult" mlms are the same, I heard that those high up in fl call their down-liners "ants", and anyone the "ants" recruit are the "ants legs". Vile people.

Annie65

Where is the humanity indeed?

Previously, in this thread we were also briefly visited by a particularly non-empathetic MN member who branded MLM' victims as 'suckers,' and who attempted to ridicule my attempts to raise public conciousness about 'MLM' cultic racketeering.

Are they telling us its a waste of time getting an education and qualifications? What a state we would be in, no Doctors, no nurses, no domestics, no catering staff, no Police, no nothing. Just a world of Mlms, all ploding along, but they will all be "living the dream", with spider-legs mascara, aloe -vera drinking gel and their very expensive toothpaste. Yes there will be no body left to recruit, but at least their teeth will be lovely and white. Joking apart, its so dangerous, I feel so sorry for the people who have lost good careers for this sham.

Does anyone know who works out their wages, its a very complicated process. I like to know exactly how much Im getting and why. If you dont know how much your wages are going to be, how would you know if they are right. Does Fl employ a wage office I wonder and who would pay their wages,

Annie65 I presume, by 'wages,' you are asking how 'commission payments' are calculated by 'FLP?'

The essentially-identical, incomprehensible, mathematical formula used in all 'MLM' rackets to calculate 'commission payments,' is ultimately mystifying bullshit, when you know that the overwhelming majority of so-called 'MLM sales' have actually been unlawful losing investment payments (based on the false-expectation of future reward) made by the 'MLM' adherents themselves, but laundered as 'lawful sales' (based on value and demand).

In effectively all cases, any payments made by 'MLM' companies to adherents have represented an overall net-loss (when all the adherents allied expenses have been factored in). However, the overwhelming majority of 'MLM' adherents have never received any commission payments.

The simplest way of explaining what is going on in all pyramids and Ponzis, is to imagine 100 children all being persuaded by an authoritarian adult to place one £ coin on a table on the pretext that their is a secret magic formula ('geometric progression') by which they can each get back more coins than they placed. No matter what mathematical formula is put forward, it is an absolute impossibility for the £100 to be divided in such a way that all the children will show a profit, because they have actually been tricked into buying infinite shares of their own finite money. The more, casual observers and victims have their mental energy focused on the meaningless mathematical formula: the less chance they have of spotting the simplicity of the fraud

In 'MLM,' rackets the children have all been given cheaply-procured magic sweets in return for their £ coins, but only to make it look as though they have not been robbed.

MN readers might be interested to learn that at least one US mainstream commentator Joshua DeLeon (an author/researcher on 'Ring of Fire'), is now openly-accusing Donald Trump of committing wire-fraud via his promotion of the 'MLM' racket known as 'ACN' on the kitsch reality television show, 'Celebrity Apprentice.'

ringoffireradio.com/2015/08/trump-defrauded-audience-on-celebrity-apprentice-by-pitching-pyramid-scheme-product-he-never/

'Ring of Fire' is a syndicated weekly radio show hosted by three presenters, including the son of Robert F. Kennedy, RFK Junior.

ringoffireradio.com/about-our-hosts/

Eye, I was wondering who does the working out of the money and who puts the money into peoples bank accounts. Just being curious. I have been reading the fl 2015 policy, and no way would anyone be able to work out exactly how much money they were getting, I had a feeling fl make it difficult to work out, it seems they are in complete control, even to the point of dictating peoples pay

Annie65 In theory, all commision payments are automatically calculated on how much product adherents have bought (by value) directly from 'FLP,' or from other 'FLP' adherents, the previous month. Whilst the adherents' percentage of commission depends (again in theory) on what level they have achieved, and maintained, in the hierarchy.

Although 'FLP' has had published 'Amway'-style smokescreen 'rules' which appear to make it obligatory for adherents to sell on a large majority of the products they have bought from 'FLP' and its adherents to 'customers', before they can qualify for commission payments, in reality, these 'rules' have not been not enforced and the vague term 'customers' can be taken to mean other adherents, rather than members of the general public.

Thus, 'MLM' commission payments systems are always presented as being based on the value of products adherents buy and then sell-on to real customers each month, but because the adherents are taught not to seel, but to buy a significant quota of the products each month and recruit others to duplicate the same system etc., ad infinitum (as a means of achieving financial freedom), in 'MLM' rackets, rewards have actually been unlawfully based on the number of further obedient contributing recruits an existing, obedient contributing recruit, can sign up and maintain.

This type of dissimulated pyramid scheme based on perpetual payment and perpetual recruitment, is forbidden by (ill-written) UK trading schemes laws, but it's also forbidden by criminal laws which clearly define, and prohibit, fraud.

Since 'MLM' products have not being generally sold to members of the general public outside of a closed-market (based on value and demand), from all rational economic points of view, the 'MLM' products might as well not exist. 'MLM' rackets have all been variations of essentially the same absurd illusion based on blinding casual observers with thought-stopping jargon and mathematics, whilst maintaining an absolute monopoly of information. Thus, and all accurate data about what has really been occuring behind the impenetrable 'MLM' facade, has been withheld from the public and from the regulators.

Presumeably, even though 'FLP' commission payments are worked out an executed by computers, the computers must be operated by junior 'FLP' staff, and the payments authorised by senior staff.

I don't know if you were following earlier threads, but a MN member briefly appeared and explained that her husband had been sub-contracted to do IT work at 'FLP' HQ in the UK. Even though no names were given, the disclosing of this banal information was probably in breach of her husband's employment contract with 'FLP.'

I did read that they keep payment under the value of cc's so it is understood universally.

Obviously that was said by a flbot, but means they can hide a complicated method behind a simple theory. And quite often on "bonus day' you see scores of 'now I can pay for the holiday' etc. But surely if you wan to do this as a job you should be focusing on the bills.

LittemissStubborn The introduction of a centrally-controlled parallel means of exchange into 'FLP,' was also copied from the 'Amway' cultic racket.

Just to add a final layer of mystification, each effectively-pointless transaction in an 'MLM' racket has to be laboriously transposed into 'points' and then back again. Like meditating monks, obedient 'MLM' adherents can waste hours each week performing these mind-numbing ritual calculations.

In 'FLP,' points eventually add up to 'Case Credits', but it's all part of the impressive-sounding jargon bullshit, maliciously designed to shut-down the critical, and evaluative, faculties of not just 'MLM' adherents, but also those of all casual observers.

The biggest joke of all is that 'MLM' bullshit has been swallowed by regulators, journalists and even judges, for more than 60 years. They too have wasted, and continue to waste, large chunks of their time trying to fathom what is ultimately unfathomable.

Let's face it, if judges haven't been able to understand so-called 'MLM payment plans,' what chance has the victim?

By the way LittleMissStubborn, as you have begun to observe, the financial factors which are funadamental to any real business, but which obviously never get transposed into 'points' in 'MLM' rackets, are all the allied expenses, because these are systematically categorised as 'negative' information which must be totally eliminated from the adherents' 'positive' thinking (in order to 'achieve success.')

Indeed, if you go through any so-called 'MLM pay-plan,' you will find absolutely no trace of external reality, because external reality is 'negative.'

If 'Vemma' looks frighteningly familiar to 'FLP,' that's because it is.

However, today it was announced by the head of the US Federal Trade Commission that 'Vemma' is a fraud that 'lures college students and other young adults with the prospect of getting rich without having a traditional 9-to-5 job.'

www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/08/ftc-acts-halt-vemma-alleged-pyramid-scheme

It is just like reading about FL

LittleMissStubborn 'It is just like reading about FL'

.... and about 'Amway', 'Herbalife,' 'ACN', 'Xango', 'USANA' and around 1400 other copy-cat 'MLM' rackets all still (legally) registered in the USA as 'commercial enterprises.'

The 5 US Trade Commissioners unanimously might have voted to take this action against the 'Vemma' racketeers in defence of their employers, the US people, but one former US Federal Trade Commissioner, Pamela Jones Harbour, is currently working for the 'Herbalife' racketeers.

mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.fr/2015/02/herbalife-hlf-shame-on-pamela-jones.html

www.youtube.com/watch?t=85&v=1FYqqcVDABo

This is a video of a sinister, multi-lingual 'Vemma' recruitment meeting for college students in Switzerland. Again, it could be any one of hundreds of essentially-identical 'MLM' cultic rackets using Evangelic techniques translated into the language of 'business' and 'personal development,' to fit the 'capitalist' spirit of our age.

www.youtube.com/watch?t=87&v=DKFyWNXQdSk

Vemma targets college kids (pay off all your student loans now!) just like fl targets new mums (make loads of money from the comfort of your own home, spend more time with your children) .

In the Today Show expose clip, JD Park; an executive from Vemma, explained the pyramid scheme beautifully , but he was at pains to say later that is was not an illegal pyramid scheme - an important difference apparently.

stopfaffing - Agreed, but there are far more important questions to be asked than whether any individual 'MLM income opportunity' racket has been set up in such an ingenious way as to make it appear (to casual observers) that its instigators have not breached laws (apparently) designed to identify, and prohibit, closed-market swindles (or pyramid scams) dissimulated as 'direct selling schemes.'

1. Why have the de facto agents of US-based 'MLM' racketeers previously been allowed effectively to control the content of American state, and federal, laws (and regulatory guidelines) apparently designed to identify and prohibit closed-market swindles or pyramid scams dissimulated as 'direct selling schemes', rendering these laws (and regulatory guidelines), and those tasked with enforcing them, effectively impotent?

2 Why have US-based 'MLM' racketeers been allowed to use stolen funds to co-opt, a veritable army of amoral, and/or stupid: legislators, academics, journalists, regulators and various other opinion makers and celebrities?

1. Why have US-based 'MLM' racketeers been allowed to inflict impermissable, co-odinated, devious techniques of social, psychological and physical persuasion on countless millions of vulnerable persons around the globe, in order to enslave and defraud them, and prevent them from complaining?

1. Why hasn't this massive subversion of democracy and the rule of law by a growing syndicate of modern-day American gangsters, long-since been recognised, and those involved held to account under the US federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, Act 1970?

1. Why, when so-called 'MLM has clearly been the reality-inverting front for ongoing major racketeering activity, hasn't the US Federal Bureau of Investigation been involved: rather than the US Federal Trade Commission?