Debt mutual support thread number 6 ....... start the new year with a clear purpose and keep moving forwards even by tiny steps

[TalkinPeace]

This thread follows on from the last five threads in the series, the most recent of which is here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2193736-Debt-mutual-support-thread-number-5-the-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-is-NOT-an-oncoming-train?

We live in a society that makes it horribly easy to get into debt but makes it incredibly hard to admit you have a problem and even harder to get out of debt.
The posters on threads, new and experienced, are here to help people get to where they want to be.

I am not in debt, any more.
Here is a link to some spreadsheets that might help
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/1987219-SPREADSHEETS-for-Debt-Control-Budgeting-Mortgages-etc

and lots of people use this
YouNeedABudget

The important things to remember are

• yesterday is as past as the Crimean War

( we will not judge how you got into debt, but we will support you on the way out )

• this is an anonymous forum

( we will not tell your employer, family or friends of the reality of your numbers and we are here day and night )

• this thread is about supporting people through the huge mindset changes needed to come out of debt

( feel free to offload all of the feelings that drive you to want to spend, that make it hard to save and that generally make life crap at times, including getting those closest to you to recognise the changes needed )

Join in, bare your soul and come out the other end.
Its worth it.
You are worth it
The long term results for you, your partner, your children, and your friends and family are worth it.

Oh god I bloody hate houses. Totally empathise with the whole house drama thing. Ours is a nightmare. We got an extension built shortly after we moved in but with hindsight used a terrible builder and it's given us no end of issues (and wiped out a mass of savings etc in the process). The whole house needs redoing more or less. Absolutely hate it. Sometimes I actually feel I'd be happier living in a static caravan.

Anyway... I've come on here for a moan. Not even particularly money related although I always spend when I'm in a down mood so maybe thrashing it out here might help me avoid that and go to sleep.

Don't even know what's wrong with me to be honest. Just stressed penny watching and trying to make sure everything organised for christmas and sick of Christmas now to be honest and just want it to be over.. and feeling guilty for feeling that way.

I've spent the last 3 days doing battle with crowds in the shops getting all kinds of bits from last min gifts to food stuff and I am worn out. Hard work pushing a buggy in and out of crowds and everyone is so fucking rude! I've really noticed people being rude this year more than ever. Drives me nuts.

Dh and I have faffed and faffed about over spending the voucher card I saved for from park and as I suspected due to inability to make decisions we ended up going into the city at the very last second to spend it resulting in a very stressful trip for everyone.

Tomorrow we are going to take the crappy pound land gifts I got dhs family round to his mums which I am feeling really stressed about because I think they will all sneer at us to be honest. I was feeling quite strong about the fact they make little effort for us all year round and we are broke so I haven't spent much and now I am feeling unsure and feeling worried about it.

On top of that my dad, who I haven't seen for 3 years and still gets my dcs names wrong, sent me a cheque for £80 and some gift vouchers (£50) and I sent him a card saying I'm sorry but things are tight and I can't afford anything. And now I feel really bad. And embarrassed. (He sent his before he received my card).

To top it off when I was feeling better about budgeting I put a deposit down on something for the end of January - a tattoo I have been planning for ages. This was ages ago now and the date is looming closer and the money I've saved towards it is being eaten up by Christmas spends I didn't anticipate like extra food stuff and a couple of presents I'd forgotten for dhs family for people that will be there. So now I only have £40 towards it and no idea how I will get the rest (£120 ish still to find, already paid £30). Not sure what to do. Part of my thinks I'm ridiculous for considering adding to the debt to do it (if I can't scrape it by the end of January by gift money or saving) but on the other hand I never ever go out, buy anything for myself, drink or smoke so this is the ONE thing I will probably do for myself this year. And I haven't been able to restrain myself from spending to save for it. I should never have booked it in the first place. I booked it when it was my birthday and I had birthday money floating about and I thought I'd use christmas money to do it but it's all been eaten up.

It doesn't feel very much like christmas right now. Dh and I are just worn out with all the worry and stress and just trying to do our best for the dc.

One saving grace is dd returned from her dad's with some amazing presents so hopefully the cheap ish ones we've got won't be so disappointing.

Gosh I sound so ungrateful and fucking miserable don't I. It's only 1 bloody day. Let's get it over with.

Moan away love. I always find your posts moving. You have a 'weight' on your family at the moment.

Personally I'd cut my loses with that tattoo. Every time I looked at it I'd remember the feeling of being stretched and skint. That was what DHs amazing car was like for me. It just represented a needless frippery.

Although if it will definitely give you pleasure then it may be a great thing to do

Houses!
Don't get me started!
Anyway...Xmas food shop was £127 but with my vouchers was £43 :)
Still got a quarter of a tank of petrol left which is good.
Wishing you all a very happy Xmas and peaceful, healthy and frugal 2015 :)

Fairy...I really hope tomorrow goes well for you and you and your Dh can relax a bit for the day.
It is hard.
Xx

Fairylea
Two of my clients are tattooists. They make an absolute mint at the moment.
Draw your design on a piece of paper and live with that - save the inking till you can afford the real thing without having to give anything else up for it.

Your Dad will understand better than you realise - he wants you to be happy and healthy and wealthy.
Part of that is the short term pain of what you are going through at the moment.

Why do people find it so difficult to cull the luxuries in their lives and get themselves out of debt? In my twenties I accumulated massive amounts of debt, through credit cards etc, going on holidays, buying shit I didn't need, going out for meals. All the usual crap. It got so bad I was bankrupted, lost my house, lost my car, lost everything. I really needed the wake up call.

Why did I need a 50" plasma TV, a Sky subscription, or a games console?
Why did I need a £40 a month mobile phone contract and the latest iPhone?
Why did I need to eat out twice a week, and why did I need to buy so much at the takeaway?
Why did large amounts of my weekly shop end up in the bin the next week?
Why did I need a loan on a £20K BMW?
Why did I need 3 weeks on foreign soil each year?

Not to mention cigarettes and alcohol.

None of us need any of these things. We only have them because they are luxuries and we are taught that to have them makes us feel normal.

But living in debt is an awful feeling. If that is 'normal' I don't ever want to feel normal again. I'd rather feel the safe warm comfort of knowing I had six months worth of living expenses sitting in the bank. I don't have it yet. I probably won't have it for another 5 years. But that feeling of security is felt by less than 5% of the British population, and my little coffee jar of spare cash gives me a hint of what that safe feeling really feels like.

If I want to go out for a meal I can. I wouldn't even have to think about it. But I won't. I can't yet say the same about having the money to go on a holiday abroad. But I wouldn't do that either.

Debt and bankruptcy has taught me the value of my own time and effort, and not to blow half a days work on a meal, or a months pay on a holiday.

I don't get why many people who profess to be struggling with debt continue to squander their money on luxury, all the while paying off interest owed on things they never had the money to pay for in the first place.

EVERYBODY

Happy Christmas
Its just a day piggybacked by the church onto the celebrations of the shortest day of the year.

Those who believe - good on you and sorry about the consumerism you have to put up with by the rest of the place.

Those who do not believe - make the best of it that you can

But the days are now getting longer
And its the time spent together not the money spent that matters.

I will check in tomorrow so that if anybody is feeling really hacked off there will be a friendly if slightly tipsy pair of ears to hear you.

Its sunny. Go out and catch some rays - the Vitamin D will do you a world of good.

elephantspoo
You and your pile of silver in Singapore are not welcome on this thread. Please hide it from your feed.

Elephant...
My debt was racked up fixing the many issues with our house. The savings just weren't enough.
Sadly, young children need hot water and heating in January when it's snowing.
Ditto a roof that doesn't leak.
Tiresome, but there it is.
You seem to delight in coming onto threads and trying to point out how marvellous your life/you are.
Perhaps if you actually were as happy as you claim you wouldn't feel the compulsion to do this?
Hmmm.

Anyway...mince pies made, been to cemetery to see dad.
Not sure whether I am going to midnight mass tonight as I was up most of the night with ds1 who has "the cough" that's seems to be doing the rounds ATM.
Hope everyone manages to enjoy their Xmas hols and it isn't too stressful.
Love to all x

I'm ignoring elephants. What a ridiculously naive post. Not everyone is in debt because they've spent on non essentials.....

Talkin thanks for the idea... its a bit difficult in that dh is heavily tattooed and socialises in circles with those who are at the top of their game. I am also building a portfolio to hopefully get a tattoo apprentice position when ds starts school with one of the most sought after artists (I have an art qualification etc). My appointment is booked with one of these top people and they are drawing the design up for me - ie as a custom one off design. If I cancel I will lose a lot of face with those at the top and it won't do my reputation much good. Having said that if I can't afford it I just can't afford it. I will have to see what santa brings (mainly dhs mum and my mum) and hope and pray it might be some money.... If it's not I am going to be sensible and cancel.

Thank you badvoc and everyone else.

I hope you all have peaceful and happy days tomorrow xx

TalkinPeace - That was a move of a pension pot, and believe me, if. I could have got my hands on it. I would have, but alas it seems we are not permitted to touch our pensions until we are old, we're not even allowed to buy houses with it, so I put it somewhere safer than the stock market. And no, you are not allowed to buy silver in a pension plan either.

Badvocinapeartree - Been there too. Boiling kettles to fill a bath, choosing which room to heat and staying in one room in the coldest months. My life is no marvel. We lost our house in the end, along with our car, our independence, and possibly any chance of getting on the housing ladder again. I have no idea if it is possible to rebuild a credit rating after bankruptcy. I do know that were outside of being able to take out a 25 year mortgage now on account of age, and I do know we are a long way shy of even being able to put down a deposit on a future home, let alone be able to raise a load or get credit. So maybe we'll be renting for the rest of our lives. I don't know.

What I do know is that the fault was entirely ours. Not societies, not the governments, not my employers (I was made redundant), but ours. We spent too much money on stuff we did not need. People complain about debt, but they usually do so on their smartphone while DC is playing on the Xbox, DH is drinking a bevy, and their dog is munching through £100 a month in KangaChunks.

Oh goody lets clap our hands and delight in all the crazy reasons we're in debt....

I've been on these threads since day one. Without naming names people are in debt due to...

Feckless partners leaving
A very ill child
House repairs due to to 'acts of God'
Money pit houses that just never get good
Job losses
Illness
... I could go on.

After 5000 odd posts yours is really unsupportive and unhelpful. It's not 'challenging' or analytical it's just rude.

It's like busting into an AA meeting and saying well I only have a glass of wine and im ok.

So elephantspoo please stay if you're going to be supportive but if not, please just hide us and our spendthrift ways and leave us in peace. . merry Christmas!

Fairy Ah the illustrated men!
TBH I take the long view - even with my clients. Its a craze, it will die back to a much lower turnover within 3 years. 3/4 of the new tattoo shops will go bust.
The big money will be in tattoo removal.
They call me a pessimist, I remind them that I'm the clean skin accountant.
Chap we used to share a house with was on his 2nd full body coat (face and hands as well)

In your position I'd brazen it out and say that you felt it more important to get finances sorted for the kids over the winter and be willing to wait another 6 months for the tattoo.
If they do not accept that argument, they will be bust in a year or two anyway.

Yes you may well be right talkinpeace. I am going to be sensible and not do it unless I really can afford it.

I do agree with you that a lot of them will go bust in the future, leaving only the exceptional ones. Dh and I both share a passion for tattoos, it is our main and only interest and it always amazes us how many people just walk into their nearest tattoo studio regardless of how good they are or not, with no research whatsoever, to get "a tattoo". Unfortunately we have turned into quite the tattoo snobs .

Ah well its good to have a hobby... whatever it is. We just can't afford to indulge it at the moment. I don't think dh has much spare skin left anyway!!

Happy Christmas tip and all xx

Fairy why don't you just tell the tatoo chap that you've had some unexpected extras to pay for so can you postpone getting the tatoo done? As you've paid a deposit it shows your intent, I'm sure they won't mind if you bump it back a little while.

Well, turkey is in the oven, cat is in the kitchen!! Need to lay the table, hoping to sit down after six. My youngest is so excited bless him! They have laid out their stockings, and are looking forward to seeing what their table presents are this year (annuals). Even my eldest is excited and at nearly twelve it's lovely to see him still enjoy the rituals.

Bills and CCs are paid for the month, we have plenty of food in (plus that bloody cheese mountain from MIL) so I'm determined not to worry about our situation until after Xmas.

Thank you all for giving me a safe place to talk about 'stuff'. I wish you all a happy Christmas wherever you are and whatever your bank balance!!! X

Well, I'm relatively new to the thread, but I'd like to wish a fantastic Christmas to all of you, and to especially congratulate everyone on:

• tackling how much the debt actually is
• figuring out inventive ways to cut costs and sticking to them
• clearing whatever amount of debt you've managed, no matter how big or small
• not racking up any more debt

And most of all, I am in awe of those of you who just continue to cope and manage brilliantly, even when it is so tough for you. You are all an inspiration. I wish you all the best of years in 2015 and much improved fortunes.

woah elephant there's a bit too much judgey negativity in your post imo, i get that you're saying you've been there too etc, but it isn't coming across as very supportive.
I don't think there's any point in casting blame at this point -everyone here is trying their best to get out of debt and we've all made sacrifices to get there - people on these threads have sold cars, ebayed so much their kids thought they were next, moved down in brands for food, meal planned, worked extra. We've all had difficult conversations with partners and parents and PILs, we've all had to say "no" to children and friends and family when we'd love to say "yes" to that treat.

I'm not saying that people in debt deserve pity or aren't responsible for their situation but there's no need to come on accusing people of blindly buying Xboxes and then whinging about debt - maybe read all 6 threads first and then come back if you have anything useful to add.

To the rest of you - thank you, Thank you for all your words of support, kindness, wisdom and comradeship in 2014. I've no doubt I'd still be in debt if it wasn't for MB and these threads.

A mellowly drunk and VERY full TiP wishes you all a FABULOUS Christmas.

May you hide behind the sofa for Doctor Who,
May you laugh our loud at Johnny English / Shrek / The Mummy
May you all have had something you really wanted this Christmas
even if it was a cup of tea in bed this morning

And remember
No matter what 2014 threw at you, you go into 2015 properly tooled up to face niggles down before they become problems.

Happy Christmas Talkin - thank you for all of your support this year and I hope you have a super evening .

Tipsy tip! :)
I have just had half a cream and raspbery roulade and a satsuma for my tea....how very festive :)
am now watching some of the TV programmes I've recorded over the last few days.
The dc seem to really like all their gifts and we had a nice dinner.
Love to all x

Hello all

Happy christmas! Thank you all for supporting me and keeping me sane recently. Hope you are all having nice days.. glad the dc liked their gifts badvoc.

It's been okay here. I've survived the visiting relatives bit. Thankfully they didn't open the gifts while we were there and when we came home we found that one of the gifts from dhs sister was a pound land biscuit box (fair enough) so maybe they are also struggling and I didn't feel quite so awful about our gifts!

It's been a nice day... my two dc have been very excited about the things we've managed to get them. Ds was absolutely bowled over by the 99p monsters inc toy I found on ebay! Over and above the present we actually saved all year for! (Always the way - that present was a £20 wooden play kitchen, we used some of our park voucher for that). Dd was thrilled to bit with her new clothes... a checked shirt and a jumper and 2 t shirts. She got a few nice bits from my dhs mum too and his family so she's very chuffed.

Dinner was a bit of a disaster. .. I think ds was overtired despite him having his usual 2 hour nap and he suddenly decided he didn't want any dinner and wanted to watch rhyme rocket!!! So to try and keep the peace (otherwise he just goes nuts and you can't relax anyway) we put rhyme rocket on for him on the tv and he had a tuna sandwich instead! Oh well... and then he had another long tantrum because there was no more new rhyme rocket episodes.

Thank goodness for bedtime. Thank goodness christmas is just once a year.

Possibly the worst moment was my mum giving me all of £5 for my Christmas present (!) And then saying quite merrily that her and her new boyfriend have a massive whole turkey between the two of them for dinner and had roast pork last night with absolutely loads they had to throw away. Err thanks mum. I don't care that she gave me £5 but I don't need to know how well off they are compared to us on a regular basis. Oh well the joys of Christmas.

Going to eat lots of chocolate now and watch eastenders and maybe a film if there's a good one.

Lots of love to all. X

Hello All,

Just de-lurking for Christmas. I'd like to try and post more as I think it would help with my debt journey, but (and I know this might sound strange) I suffer quite badly with anxiety which seems to prevent me from being regularly social.

Anyway Happy Christmas! And ... without sounding weird I wanted to say a few thank yous. Fairy you won't remember me but you were very very kind on a thread which I started once about my guilt due to not BF-ing DD (which led to my PND that exacerbated this whole anxiety business in the first place). Not to sound too stalkerish but I've noticed your posts here (I've been lurking on this thread since day one) and in other areas since, and we both have little ones of the same age - my DD is just over 2.5.

I know what it's like when parents usually give you money at Christmas and then don't. You don't like to rely on it - but can't help it a little bit. My FIL gave us £500 at Christmas every year for eight years, and then one year just didn't - we got socks and perfume etc instead (fair enough and it's lovely to get anything). But ... It was a year that DH was it of work too and it hit us a bit. We'd ear marked it for bills. Silly.

TIP - I think you are an inspiration and I hope you've had a great day.

Kinky - a fellow exhausted teacher who is similarly bemused by how you can work your guts out, earn a good wage and still live in a damp embarassment of a house ... I salute you.