Debt mutual support thread number 5 .... the light at the end of the tunnel is NOT an oncoming train

[TalkinPeace]

This thread follows on from the last four threads in the series, the most recent of which is here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/a2142758-Debt-mutual-support-thread-number-4-every-journey-starts-with-the-hardest-first-step

We live in a society that makes it incredibly easy to get into debt but makes it incredibly hard to admit you have a problem and even harder to get out of debt.
The posters on threads are here to help people get to where they want to be.

I am not in debt, any more.
Here is a link to some spreadsheets that might help
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/1987219-SPREADSHEETS-for-Debt-Control-Budgeting-Mortgages-etc

and lots of people use this
YouNeedABudget

The important thing to remember is

• yesterday is as past as the Crimean War

( we will not judge how you got into debt, but we will support you on the way out )

• this is an anonymous forum

( we will not tell your employer, family or friends of the reality of your numbers )

• this thread is about supporting people through the huge mindset changes needed to come out of debt

( feel free to offload all of the feelings that drive you to want to spend, that make it hard to save and that generally make life crap at times )

Join in, bare your soul and come out the other end.
Its worth it.
You are worth it.
The long term results for you, your marriage and your children are worth it.

So true Sporting...I've taken to only going anywhere near a shop when DS is with his Dad...I'm struggling not to compensate him for twunts exit from our lives and then his illness/operation-so best to save us both from the pain of it!

I'm fortunate to have a monthly saving scheme in work which pays out in Dec - that will be pay everything Xmas related though I still need to think about what actual budget is. DS not at school so will up food budget slightly, I'll be able to work from home and have hols so petrol budget can come down. Xmas dinner likely to be at Mums so will make a contribution to her costs...presents for DS, niece and nephew only (unwritten rule in our family that we only but for kids, and no cards-saves a fortune!) ....

andsmile
I cannot see a hole in your maths. Go for it.

FREE THING TO DO WITH KIDS
Sticky Cards
Get a roll of double sided sellotape and a big sheet of card.
Lay the tape along the card strips an inch apart, leaving the upper cover on.
THen cut the card into pieces 4" by 1" with the tape along it.
Go for a walk and get the kids (or adults) to stick something onto the card every 20 paces.
Cheaper than snacks and much more fun

Also, just found this
www.naturedetectives.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/CF76BA6C-38CF-4990-967A-7E127481E52D/0/autumn_booklet.pdf

and ah, we have one of those mortgages, but still not enough equity to remortgage. Can't bloody wait to get shot of NRAM, have paid over the odds ever since we got it. Go! Go! Go!

Kinky do you realise that your loan does not count as part of your LTV needed? But obviously will still be counted in when doing viability checks as a liability? I've been waiting for 2.5k to get us down to 85% - there is 90% ones about but they are pants.

We have a buy to let mortgage with them - to this day I don't know how we got it. It was orginally at 85% but is now 90% due to house prices falling. The area is 'slow' where the house is at t hough I have seen some for sale 10k above what I though ours was which would make it 80% LTV but Buy to let mortgages are nearly all 75% now and good deals at 65% so we a bit stuffed with that one for no - at least its getting paid on repayment nest egg n all that.

So as of today -
CC1 - 0 paid off today
OD1 - will be paid off on Wednesday
OD2 -176CR soon to be about 260CR will be 519CR at end of month when all bills are paid.
CC2 - will pay off minimum until I get back on my feet and can start over paying with a vengeance!!

Just the work situation to sort out now which I'm aiming for early in the new year, and for Christmas I just think I need to join the frugaleers over in credit crunch and start as I mean to go on - this is certainly not going to happen again!

I'm going to treat myself to coffee and a cake in John Lewis (courtesy of a coupon) and go and spend my Tesco Orchard Vouchers - free money is after all not to be wasted!!

sporting
sounds like you have a rally good handle on things
well done

and yes, frugality does not stop with debt zero day
I'm still incurably tight because I'm now saving to make sure my kids are OK when they leave home (only a few years away)

and - I hadn't thought of that! Even so, we would still be over 90% . I think when we get it down another few k, we might start to have a look .

Well done sporting.

Hi TIP I am feeling a wee bit more optimistic and there does appear to be light at the end of this all.

However I intend to be more frugal going forward and more importantly DH seems to be totally on board with it all too, which is half the battle.

I am actually looking forward to a more frugal Christmas, we have plenty of decorations and we can have lots of fun without spending loads.

There is too much emphasis on spending on lots of material goods these days, we managed when we were kids on much less and I don't remember feeling hard done by!

Hi all starting to feel the Christmas spending pressure now ! I have 1 of 9 adults presents bought & need to buy for 6 kids. All relations our friends all agreed no Xmas presents a couple of years ago which is great ! Then Santa presents, present for DH (low budget maybe e40 if anything left). Then the Xmas food etc.... Not feeling too stressed but also wanted to get new decorations etc for the house just a few extra lights if I have the money !

snowie
HAWKIN
honestly
presents bought out of guilt not means are not good
why new decs?
we buy one a year each
tinsel is 30 y o
paper chains 45 yo
streamers 50 yo

I did a wish list on amazon snowie and shopped accordingly - I found quite a few thinfs for DD cheaper on the Mothercare website as they were reduced and then had further 20% off.

I was waiting for black friday on amazon - I read that a few main highstreet retailers might be doing it this years with flash sales. I was going to register for amazon prime free trial for 30 days and get everythign delivered for free then cancel - but you'd have to be quite organised.

I also moved current account to M&S and Im hoping that voucher will cover adult presents and some food (£100 switching)

I think the next couple of weeks are good to list any toys/winter coats on eBay to get good price/sales. - Is there anything about you could sell?

Im pleased Ive capped my xmas spending this year. We are at CP which was boked and paid fore a while back before all this...But the good thing is it has stopped us spending too much on other stuff as we know we are going there and we cant take tons of presents.

Anyway I hope that gives you some ideas - plan your December calendar re cheap craft activities/cinema visit - priority moments/cheap matinees/days so you have a plan and spend intentionally - stops the spontaneous.

Oh and points days at Boots - spend £50 on 3 for 2 get £12 points worth back?

smile amazon sounds good - when is Black Friday ? It's an American thing isn't it ?

tip you're right I suppose I just haven't bought any new ones in years !! Wanted a few lights for the window.

Question on play dates anyone - as we both work FT we don't really do them with school friends (& very limited with kids of best friends). DS is quiet & never gets invited to any. I've also noticed a tapering off in birthday invitations too. I just looked up an old text message from last year & looks like he wasn't invited to a party that he was last year as the birthday date has passed. (The child may not have had one but still). I also think that child's parents are less friendly than they were previously (but again I work FT so would have only met them twice a year !). I don't really know any of his classes' parents well (his first teacher was v poor & there were a few problems then). He is involved in lots of activities (not too many!) and I've noticed he gets on well with other kids joking laughing playing etc but doesn't seem to attach very well in a gang or anything so I think he feels a bit left out of things in school sometimes. Should I be worried ? He only had 2 from school at his own party (it was short notice so a few couldn't make it) and every time I asked him who to invite the list changed. He says he'd like people for play dates but truth is I never get around to organising it. Last mention was the child I just realised whose birthday passed weeks ago. He mentioned before that anther boy had a party & he wasn't invited & felt left out. (Mental note don't invite that child to his !). He was upset & that's the first time he expressed that. I said maybe the mother couldn't afford to invite more than a few. Teachers have said he doesn't mix as well but that's contrary to anything I have witnessed outside school. He even makes friends easily say waiting in the barbers ! He seems to be confident to me and in some ways I wonder is he better off being happy with his own company in teen years he might be less susceptible to pressures. I am a bit paranoid about some parents moods who might be friendly one morning then blank you the next ! I don't get that at all ! I find the school gate so pressured I dread it tbh . It's like 5 minutes to squeeze in the wrong impression . Anyway I'm wondering should I push play dates more - he has said he would like a "best friend" but I don't let him out to wander the streets yet (if I had my way - never ).

I'm wondering is it too late to suggest kris kindle for my family I can't afford presents for that many !!

According to this 24th Nov - this comming Monday!

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11244515/Where-to-find-the-best-Black-Friday-deals.html

good god snowie you have just described my DS to-a-T. I went through this last year and ponder it a bit.

1. Playdates - I used to do regular playdates, put a lot into them food/treats. sometimes picnic to park. I also held halloween and easter parties. I was friendly with a lot of mums - always chatting to someone, meeting for coffee every now and then. But then I had DD and just couldnt always fit them in and I also relaised that no one else was doing all this...DS seemed fine.

1. Friendships - exactly as you say - chatty will want to play but doesnt seem to 'bond' he can be quite sensitive and does not like rough play. He is not streetwise (for want of a better word) at all. Ive heard him stand his ground verbally. I know he plays on his own regulalry at playtime - does his wn fantasy role play games (which is good for him in one way) But I have noticed he seems to have had far less invites - but this is expected as less parties now he is in year 4. But parties where he had invites previously have been an gone - but then he hasnt had a party for two years so people sometimes invite accordingly. I have seen him play with people either side of activities with kids and familes we have know for a few years but again its just if we are there and they are (at gym there is a kids area etc) He seems to get on.

1. I so want that to be true about teen years! He is quite open to me about the smallest things, he is quite bright enought to see bad/silly behaviour that is overt but does not pick up when people are lying/scarcastic etc. DH and I arent that 'tight' with friends but I feel we have a decent social life with other families. DH is far less sociable than I am, and I can be chatty but then worry too much about people afterwards (I have worked on this a lot) So given that about us Ive kind of accepted that its only natural that DS has some of these trait and attitudes towards friendships. He seem to have social skills re talking to adults, paying for things, asking for things in cafes etc that some children shy away from...so I try to keep a mre rounded view. I dont feel DS has found his true friend though and think this will all change when he is old enough for things like games workshop events, starts secondary, etc. I dread social media side of things.

Anyway I know the mums of DS who have packed out after school stuff and dont have time to do playdates and their kids have not suffered. I dont think it helps. But if there is a blossoming friendship there then maybe a little time away fromt he pack to help it develop - dont forget playdats can be weekends when there is less rush after work.

As for missing out the school gate thing - having extracted myself from a wendied click it can all get a bit political, its not much fun standing around getting wet like today while wondering who is checking out your boot/coat combo (Oh yes have heard that) So now I get in and I get out. I speak to people who I know if I happen to be near them but its functionary rather than a social staging post IYSWIM

Sorry long post but I hope that gives you some insight of some sort!

smile thanks for the reply - was having a wobbly there googling "my child has no friends" not good for mental health . Your DS sounds very similar to mine. I also have younger dd - she sucks up a lot of the attention (being the shining star that she is & opposite to him in some ways). However they are close in ages & despite the killings & "hatchyoo's" 50% they get on well - same sense of humour & they always have an instant playmate & companionship. (They plot against me).

As you point out that your DS has inherited your traits I suppose I need to recognise that DH was probably quite like that himself and has grown into moderately functional adult . I also think he is quite grown up underneath it for some reason. He was at home with me for nearly 3 years before I went back to work I wonder is that why.

I suppose I need to work out what I can do. I think I definitely need to make one to one time with him to discuss all this properly !

My DD is younger by 6 years and they roll about together better than what I thought they would! She is a lot more pushy/extrovert/resilient as far as I can see up to now.

YEs thats a good way to put it - grown up underneath.

What I've learnt to do is listen and say how did you respond/deal with that (re incidents in school) and sort of help him reflect on stuff. iask him do you want me to do anything - he mostly says no. I keep these chats going (but I find them very tedious but listen accordingly) I kind of accepted that he is who he is and I cant go making him something he is not. He seems happy so thats the bottom line. There is that book about making friendship cant remember what it is called..?

I think you've hit the nail on the head saying is he happy & mine is mostly happy so that's the main thing. I suppose there's always the worry that something else is happening. I do worry (now) that he doesn't tell me things ie he probably protects me from certain truths that I protected my own parents from. I need to talk to him about that I want to be cooler than my parents !!

exactly - I still worry, too much. Kids eh?

Play dates are an interesting thing that I do not miss in the slightest.
DD had a few friends at primary school but the school were always worried that she did not have a "best friend". I wasn't.
At Secondary she dropped all her junior friends and became joined at the hip to her best friend. Still best friends 5 years on.
She's a social beast now, never happier than when out with friends.

DS had a best friend at junior school whose mother did not like me = no play dates
they are still friends now but his mates are more school based.
friends only come round in the holidays
he does not really have parties as we are usually away for his birthday

so long as your kids are happy and learning resilience and persistence they will be fine

always good to hear from someone further down the path thanks TIP

Hi girls thanks so much for your replies I feel a bit better about it was v anxious yesterday - I think Friday being the end of the week it all builds up !

I am beyond

DH has just informed me this morning that we need to pay a £3k tax bill by January 31st.

No this was not anticipated. I am fuming I think I shall explode above Birmingham into tiny screaming pieces and land strewn over gardens for miles - screaming into the night.

I mean he works in tax, specifically employment tax how the fuck could he not know about this. It is not a mistake by anyone it is from a tax return calculation. He has failed to plan for this or inform me.

I feel betrayed - Ive put lots of effort into doing all this stuff and now look - what's the point. WHat us the fucking point of counting tins of beans, comparing, shaving, switching and all the other penny pinching for his to do this.

It is the result of something specific that changed in his tax code that I did not know about. It also means that effectively the wage rise he recieved was very very little in real terms.

3K

andsmile
and breathe

presumably its 2013/14 and its higher than expected because he's crossed the £2000 tax a year threshold so they have demanded payment on account.

I'll let you into a really big secret : the interest rate on over due tax debts is under 2%
Pay what you can and then keep trickling the money through to them.
So long as the actual 2013/14 part is paid and its the 2014/15 that is delayed there is nigh on nothing they can do.

If its gone through his tax coding CHECK IT : because HMRC are physically inacapable of getting codings right year on year
I avoid putting tax bills through coding AT ALL COSTS

feel free to PM me with numbers if needs be

Hi TIP Ive managed not to shout and rant. I feel a bit broken..but

I managed to 'find' 2010 of amount required by paying minimum payments elsewhere and could use the overdraft Id just paid off so we can cover it that way. So I calmed a little.

But then we got a new card approved which is 0% on money transfers
for 24 months and a high limit - so the silver lining is I can pay that sub loan off with NRAM and this new bill. The money saved from the mortgage can be used to pay this new 0% card - it will be S/O over 24 months.

It wasnt paid through code as it was loss of personal allowance. The have to pay you as if you still have it (DH explained the reasons why) then it corrected through tax return for high rate tax payers.

Guess what our emergency fund has to be set at min £250 per month.

I havnt had two months the same, financially speaking, for ages.