Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 21 - tests, treatment, trying again.

[Justonemoretime]

Buckle up, the threads move like lightening! Tea, sympathy, information, support and combined wisdom to guide you through the maze of testing and treatment for recurrent miscarriage. Newbies always most welcome.

Please start with the traditional recap of your stats.

becca I never used to spot before periods either until mc1 (and I got pg 2nd cycle with mc2 so was still spotting then). I do believe this points to progesterone problems, in my case at least.
Hope your hcg drops more speedily, it's like adding insult to injury when it drags on. Hope your physical recovery happens soon (obviously the emotional recovery is another thing) xxx

sebs, i think it is because implantation is a process rather than an event. The implantation bleed is when the egg first settles in but implantation as a whole is the invasion of the embryonic cells into the uterine wall,which happens over weeks. If the lining is not properly prepared then this implantation can be flawed and the placenta doesn't grow properly. Then when it starts to profuse with blood around 9 weeks it is not strong enough and can fail (one of the potential issues)

That is really interesting Just and reassuring that they fine tuned your dose. I think prof quenby was feeling a bit rushed when I saw her. She basically told me in general terms that they were all about the lining. That I fit their findings in falling pregnant easily, but then losing them which fits in with the lack of selectivity. But I've not had the telephone consultation yet so was expecting some more from that. What was so positive is seeing the passion she had in her subject, compared to my consultant who takes a huge breath every time I ask a question as if to say just go away! Was a breath of fresh air.

What annoys me is that my consultant said I don't implantation issues because I've been pregnant and seen the heartbeat, it was therefore implanted. Completely ignoring the fact it was too low down in my uterus and died.

For balance, I should add that this is just one theory on what's going on, which I think seems to fit with me. St Marys theorise that clotting issues are much more common than standard testing shows and dr shehata is all about the immune system attacking the foetus as far as I'm aware. They could all be right and people may have any one or more of these issues. They still need to work out the finer details of which group to treat with which treatment. And that's quite tricky when they all think they are right and everyone else is wrong! I find it all fascinating. It's really brought out the scientist in me, all this research!

Sorry to here you got so close sebsmummy1 here's hoping we all have sticky beans next time :-) after miscarrige 3 they did a full blood clotting screen on me and antiphsopliopd syndrome (my dad had strokes and died very young) they was worried something had passed down to me so I tried low molecule weight heparin and baby aspirin but I don't think for us that was the reason as it made no change. He offered it me this time (didn'take it with either my successfully pregnancys but did hemorrhae with second son so declined any blood thinners) I'm wondering if I had said if I would still be pregnant now. He said if it went wrong he would strongly advice me to go hardcore on the next pregnancy...... (my bloods were all ok didn't indicate a clotting issue) x

Sorry hope that makes sense afew typos!

Becca we are all thinking the same, maybe if I did X the outcome would have been different. I'm still beating myself up for drinking Bucks Fizz, eating steak cooked medium and dancing on my birthday (pretty much the time it died which is a nice memory!). But I suspect none of that made an impact. I took baby aspirin, as did Brummie, but sadly it didn't help. Who knows, hopefully for me Thurs might hold some answers.

Remember, the heparin given by Coventry is given from in uterine scan (5-6 weeks) is for its cryoprotective effect (helping the trophoblast, which becomes the placenta, implant effectively) nor for its blood thinning effect.

*not

So fascinating!
Minnie** if you're reading this remember proff walker is totally open to progesterone from day 21 - he prescribed 400g twice a day for me.

Coventey ladies, another question - does brof b prescribe heparin even if a clotting issue has not been found?

Sorry diddly I've just noticed an error in my reply about heparin. As just says that's taken from the scan at 5-6 wks. Not sure if it can be taken later. I'm getting muddled up with the steroids which I think are used from bfp(?) which Is what prof b said could be taken a week after, but I would check all this out tomorrow as it may be individual.

Another point prof b made (which I've also just remembered) about std testing was that many people have show positive for these but don't have rmc so it seems to effect some this way but not others. And of course many women show negative results but have rmcs so I think there is still a lot to learn about those side of things. Maybe one if the reasons why they don't require these tests to be done before attending the clinic...

Forgot to say sebs, good luck with the retest. hope you find out one way or another what's happening, still hopeful for you x

freckle everyone who goes to Coventry is recommended heparin injections from an early scan (5 week ish) to confirm the pregnancy sac is in the right place/rule out ectopic until week 12. Nothing to do with clotting, it protects placental cells.
The progesterone from day 21 is what makes a difference to lining receptivity and selectivity, and steroids modulate the immune response, given from BFP but only if uNK levels are high.

freckle, From what I gather from others progesterone from 7dpo and heparin from location scan are standard for everyone that goes to Coventry. As just says,heparin is for cytoprotective effect (stops call death)and not for clotting issues (although you may also be prescribed it for clotting by rmc consultant if you come up positive). Steroids from bfp only if high nk. He said if I had particularly high nk them they may need to treat in advance of getting pregnant, but I'm not sure what that would be.

Ahh...i really did not know that about heparin, THANKYOU so much ladies for the information. And is the heparin prescribed a daily injection or a tablet? Do you inject yourself? Sorry, bit of a Spanish inquisition, I know! - I'm just thinking of us up here in Leeds asking for this too...

Plus Sebs** - i am getting really excited for you!!!! Test!

Waves a warm welcome to the newbies. Sorry you find yourself here but they are a great group on this thread.

I'm sorry to hear how low you're feeling Becca, the heartache we feel from miscarriage can be so overwhelming. Hope you can get some help and some answers. In the meantime be kind to yourself and focus on the good things whenever you can.

Regarding the progesterone debate, I am convinved that progesterone was the cause of my infertility and miscarriage. For me the right combination was 200mg of cyclogest twice daily from day 21, continued after BFP until 14 weeks. I also took aspirin until 15 weeks but I know many on here are not keen on the 'just in case' aspirin. I think it was Just who said it may be a case of tweaking drugs and finding the right unqiue combintation for each of us, that was certainly the case for me.

Whoop to being 30 weeks Just. I'll be 29 on Thursday! Still doesn't feel real.

Oh Sasha I'm sorry to hear the scan didn't go so well. I will hope and pray that next weeks is more encouraging. Hugs to you and your DH xxxxxx

sasha So sorry your scan confirmed your fears. It is cruel and unfair that this keeps happening to some people.

freckle Heparin is administered by daily injection, and yes, you do it yourself. It sounds a lot worse than it is, the worst thing is the bruises, but that's really it.

Really interesting re. Progesterone and lining. I don't catch easily so certainly don't fall into the hyper fertility/non selective theory. Wonder if that will mean a lower dose of Prog? I fell no problem with DS but I was 37, now 40. I did manage to catch three times last year so I suppose that's not terrie going, it took us 8 months though to conceive after MC2 so I had pretty much given up. Sadly I didn't get my happy ending but for nearly three months I was stupidly happy.

Freckle you are a sweetheart but honestly I have zero symptoms so I wouldn't expect anything positive when i retest. I'm a bit scared it could turn into another non-viable partial-implant scenario that dragged out over months last time. It would be easier for AF to appear in the next couple of days.

When I know anything I shall moan update.

Good morning all,
Sorry for my absence, I have been following the thread but I kept losing my replies so gave up until I was on my computer.

Sorry to see that we have some new faces (not that you’re not very welcome) but I guess we all wish no one had to be here. I hope you find it helpful though.

sasha I am so sorry that this scan wasn’t better. I will still really hope that it’s better news next week but I know how horrible the feeling of waiting and thinking the worst.

march and cheesy glad Coventry was helpful and made you feel more positive. Looking forward to seeing some Coventry BFPs coming through soon!
Interesting what you added about couples keeping trying. I guess we are in the 4th time lucky group, nearly 15 weeks with no treatment. That said, it was very hard to try again without doing anything differently but it helped that we knew that MC3 was a chromosomal one – still, probably would have rather done something different even if it was ultimately just good luck which got us here.

counting and barking hope you are both ok. Thinking of you. barking don’t know if it’s on near you but I went to the highlights of the Banff film festival this weekend, thought of you as it’s all climibing/cycling/extreme sports. If it’s on at a cinema near you, it’s worth a few hours of escapism….

tiny and tanny hope all is going well with your new family additions

mrsD hope your phone consultation is useful tonight.

just 30 weeks tomorrow?! And cat amazing, other people’s pregnancies always seems to go quite fast – another amazing thing about time passing fast/slow/stopping depending on what you’re doing!

sebs sorry you are still in the limbo zone, I am thinking secret excited thoughts for you oh and good luck with weigh in. WW fan here, it’s always worked for me and I like that you can eat normally just with a better balance.

Right stopping there before I get into too much of a marathon post. Sorry for anyone I have missed. Hope the sunshine is helping a little bit with the difficult days.

Welcome sasha, becca and strubi. Sorry for your pain.

I had to make the miserable and dispiriting phone call to work to tell them I'll be off for a while. The GP took one look at me yesterday and signed me off for a month. I really hope it won't be that long. But at least it takes the pressure off to some extent. I'm still really struggling. GP was great, asked me to think about what things I want to try next time and we have an appointment booked to discuss.

I've got my appointment through for the Prof Cahill at Bristol. 28 May which doesn't seem so bad as we'll be heading to Coventry in June so there's nothing doing before then anyway. except trying to mend my head. Which will probably take that long.

My mum and stepdad left yesterday. Then my dad and step mother arrived. I think I'll do some gardening with my Dad.

Read the reports from Coventry with interest (thanks, ladies). I'm also in the 'conceive first time' situation. Really interested the note the point about taking progesterone early. I have only taken it from BFP before. Also spurred on by those stats about keep trying it will happen.

Xx to all.

I have been sure progesterone is a problem for ages. I've had spotting mid month since i had my ds and cracking headaches mid month and just before period too. If my appointment for the gyno after mc2 hadn't taken 3 months to come through, by which point i was pregnant again, maybe i could have been on progesterone from before bfp, instead of starting week 7 - the week it died. This time i have the progesterone ready.

I didn't.know that about heprin. Learning alot on this thread. Sorry to here you've been signed of work andcounting but if needed Atleast it's there. X