Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 20 - tests, treatment, trying again.

[barkingtreefrog]

Buckle up, the threads move like lightening! Tea, sympathy, information, support and combined wisdom to guide you through the maze of testing and treatment for recurrent miscarriage. Newbies always most welcome.

Please start with the traditional recap of your stats.

Yay barking!!!!! Brilliant news!

Spoke too soon yesterday - the puking has begun with a vengeance! No chance of going to work today - got as far as the front door three times now, then mad dash to the loo... oh well.

barking wonderful news on the egg front. Well done you! Firmly crossing everything that you get plenty of healthy embies to put back. What a

cloud I commented on the age to adopt thing as well. In my LA it was a 40 yr gap but no age limit as such, so a 50 yr old could adopt a child of 10 or above. It's obviously different in other regions too. You would hope they'd use common sense and not apply it too rigidly if a match was otherwise good.

X-posting from TTC after MC thread...
Afternoon team, just wanted to drop in and say hi, as I've been awol from MN for a few months.
In case you don't know/remember me:
MC1 @ 7.5w Feb 2014
MC2 @ 10ish Aug 2014 (saw HB at 8w but problems seen, ERPC @10w. Sh*ttest two weeks of my life)
Now 23 weeks (wheeeee!) on attempt #3
First 12w were tough, emotionally as I was terrified something would go wrong. Then a very wobbly time as symptoms started to taper off but I still couldn't feel anything nor did I really look preg. But now I'm sporting a proper baby bump and can feel BabyCharlie moving several times every day. Doesn't stop me for being scared at least once a day! But 12w and 20w scans showed all going well, so now trying to stay posifrickintive.

jass so sorry for your losses I hope you find lots of support here.

barking wow 8!! that's excellent! Hoping you get plenty of embryos from those!

sun I think you're right to take the meds. We all know that lots of women spot in early pregnancy and it turns out fine. So hoping this is the case for you.

bunny yey to being sick!

Good luck for tomorrow counting !

Yay barking so chuffed for you! Can't wait to hear about the next stage!

sun you've had great advice already so I'll just keep everything crossed for you and a lovely sticky bean!

Work today was fine. Everyone was very sensitive to not really say anything, just a few hugs and arm pats. So not too bad really. Hated being back and not pg though. Kept thinking I should have been almost 15 weeks now. I'm thinking that will go on till edd though!

Hope your first days were ok too pop and MrsC

Ooh and good luck for tomorrow counting I'll be thinking of you.

barking good news on the eggs..everything crossed they do what they should with the sperm overnight...

baking glad to hear faith is gaining ground again, I think of you both often

counting hand holding for tomorrow*

tanny you sound beautifully besotted, I can well imagine the worry is still very much present, and hope it becomes a little easier over time

cloud nice to hear you had a good weekend.

twilight I'm thinking of you. Tough times I am sure. Sorry you are trying to adjust your images of the future...I very much hope you get the future you want.

Those who had first day back, hope it was ok.

sun I agree..take the meds and call epu. Hand holding and hoping..

Welcome new people.

Cloud, waves!

Sun, your hcg hcg levels will not be affected by progesterone, and going on pred and proge might delay actual bleeding, but if the hcg is not rising, your test lines will stay weak or disappear. I have guidedmyself by daily testing and if there hasbeen clear decrease in line intensity for couple of days have stopped pred and proge. After a few days you even do not need to wean from pred, but lets hope the pg is going to stick and you can continue the meds!

Sorry about long posts..on train back from coventry and want to get this down on here whilst its fresh in my mind.

Saw Prof Brosens who again took the time to listen and explain. He discussed again about each uterine lining and each embryo being unique - and the importance of the lining being selective. The key function of tbe lining is to respond to that unique embryo, appropriately. If there are high NK cells, (as I have) it is indicative of the lining having an inflammatory response. Its thought that the inflammatory response is caused by having low levels of stem cells, which makes the lining age too quickly. The uterine scratch activates the stem cells (as well as providing a sample for NK cells)

NK cells are just a snap shot - they change with each cycle, as does the whole of the lining each time. Some lining is left after each menstruation, so each lining has old and new cells, each lining is unique. Which is sort of hopeful as it can'reset' itself. Hence people may have 3 mcs then suddenly a successful pg. The more mc's you have, the higher the liklihood of another, but there is still a chanxe of success due the regeneratative properties of the lining.

In terms of my 9 week loss, which was doing well up until it died (ie no growth retardation, good 'normal' scans) he said: Could have been a chromosomal issue (erpc gave no results so we will never know); or could have been because that is the stage the placenta takes over. Which I know has been discussed on here before. So at 9 ish weeks, the placenta is flooded with blood, oxygen, and free radicals - its like a stress test. If the cells that have formwd the placenta are not properly 'prepped' it may fail with the sudden increase in blood flow. So for me, my lining may have been better this time around to get to 9 weeks looking normal, but still not quite up to it when it came to the placenta.

The plan is to ttc for 2 more cycles on the prog from day 21, pred if bfp and heparin. If I have not conceived in that time (tried 2 months so far post mc) to return for another scratch for its beneficial properties and check NK cells again. Also he would suggest BHCG injections which may be beneficial to the lining (ok to start later from positive pg scan - its not like the prog or steroids which need to be started early). He said the BHCG is totally anecdotal and no scientific evidence it will work, but sometimes you get to a point where its worth trying.

Sorry mammoth post - I left out details I was unsure of as dont want to give incorrect reports.

Got to get off train...

Hello charlie . Good to hear from you. I have been thinking of you. Glad all is well.

Yeay to sickness bunny though hope it doesn't get extreme.

Will be thinking of you tomorrow counting.

Argh lost post.

Boys followed by immune issues and rmc is not an evidenced based theory according to Prof Brosens, though he did say defo true that in sec

Argh..

Secondary rmc more common in mothers of boys, but unknown why, And it would probably come back to lining issues if there is some sort of evolutionary process which has gone a bit wrong, in an effort to give a male baby the best chance of survival.

Sorry long and garbled..and if everyone is familiar with all this, but thought it could be helpful.

charlie glad you are doing well

bootles wow that sounds like a lot to take in. Really interesting though especially about the placenta (I think that might have been the problem for us this time- with no scientific evidence at all obvs!) When you say you're giving it two more months ttc and you've done two already, was the two already from first af/ov after the mc or did you wait two cycles to go to Coventry? Trying to decide whether just to get cracking again on the next go or to wait it out and try Cov. Thanks for sharing that it all sounds really positive, especially the plan for going forward. Enjoy a relax on the train home. or !

My goodness. I forget my phone for one day and so much happens!

8 eggs! that's totally awesome barking! Hope they all have a wild party with the sperm in that test tube tonight.

Yay (sort of!) for sickness bunny

Glad to hear all is going so well Charlie and bythesea

minnie, glad your first day back went ok. Hope your first days went ok too pop and mrsC

glad you've had a good visit with prof brosens bootles. Sounds like you have a good plan

cloud, glad you had a lovely weekend. Still keeping fingers crossed for surprise bfp.

sun, congrats on the bfp. It's so hard this bloody thing, isn't it? I really hope it will work out, but totally understand that feeling that you know what your body is doing. Agree with the others that you should hope for the best and take the meds but test regularly so you know what's going on. Hand holding.

Good luck for tomorrow counting, you have the patience of a saint to wait until now with no complaining. I'd have been a mess. More hand holding for you x

minnie it was a follow up appointment for me..the last mc was on coventry protocol after being diagnosed with high nk cells there. I took notes this time....

Good that you have a plan bootles and glad you were listened to. Really hope tgis next time is the one.

Thinking of barking's eggs and willing them on.

Glad you had a good appt bootles - really useful seeing that all in writing.

barking yay!!!!!!!! Here's hoping eggs and sperm are having an awesome party right now

Glad your first day back was okay minnie. I know exactly what you mean about it being hard not being pregnant. That's definitely one of the worst bird for me. I love my job but feck me I get thoroughly fed up of STILL being there long after I should be on lovely mat leave.

Good luck 2mo counting - will be thinking of you.

Glad to hear all is well charlie

bootles thats very interesting theory, thanks for shaing. Glad you have a plan you believe in. Sounds like a nice bloke - I wonder if he knows he's a bit of a celebrity on here!

counting will be thinking of you tomorrow

I really need to try and keep up with this thread, but it races by and I struggle to keep up with reading it, never mind posting.

Bound to miss lots of people out and sorry in advance!

Counting good luck with tomorrow's scan.

Baking, glad that F seems stable now.

Barking, hope your eggs are getting jiggy right now, and they are spoilt for choice over what to transfer back. Will you have one or two?

Bootles, interesting re the Coventry stuff. I can't help thinking we are all onto something re smc following having boys.

Sun congrats on the BFP, hope this is one for keeps.

Brummie, glad you enjoyed Sunday with the friend not turning up. Originally Monica offered me the 20th under GA and said a local would be about the same time but she couldn't make that appointment as it would be with someone else so she emailed kiddiminster 2 weeks ago, but no one contacted me so the local date is unlikely to be for ages now, but she said they have just had another slot under GA for Mr Watts become available for next Monday so I've persuaded DH to take time off work, and so I'm having the hysteroscopy then, with the pre op stuff on Wednesday. I would have preferred a local to a general and am a bit worried about looking after the children on the Tuesday and it's caused a few child care headaches for the Weds and the Mon, but I just want it over and done with, and hopefully to gain peace of mind that there is nothing physically wrong and that it's just a case of trying again with the help of the aspirin and progesterone and heparin. Fingers crossed it means we can ttc in April as I think I am likely to ovulate within a couple of weeks after the operation, although it's always impossible to be sure when it's the first cycle after a mc.

bootles your notes are amazing. I have been struggling to explain what prof B told me to my dh but now I can just show him. Thank you. I hope you found it helpful seeing him and are happy with your plan.

Thank you so much for all the support and advice ladies. Not sure I would have made it through today without dissolving into a blubbering wreck if it hadn't been for all the lovely messages. And jass and barking I think - thanks for the info re hcg and progesterone. That was one of my main worries with taking the meds that it would prevent a cp and turn it into a full mc (love it that I am rating cp as a 'better' option ). And march - yes, can't help but thinking that I've been here before and know what is happening but really hoping to be proved wrong this time.

bootles - sounds like a really helpful discussion with coventry. And how refreshing that he was suggesting other alternative options, even though they are not yet proven. Hurrah for some pro activity from rmc consultants. It sounds like you have a solid plan in place for the next few months.

counting - hand holding for tomorrow hun - keeping everything crossed for you. Someone a while ago - tanny or tiny maybe - used a lovely phrase something along the lines of the scanning room will be crowded with us all there with you. x

Bootles, glad you had a good consultation. Hope the next steps are productive.

Counting, good luck tomorrow.

Barking, wow! 8 eggs! Hope they're all doing their thing ready for an heir and a spare!

Hm, thanks Bootles, I am on exactly the same kind of medication for my bfps, so I figure even if I can not go to Coventry I do not need to neither:-)

Sun, I so hear you on preferring cp to mc. I can add I also prefer blighted ovum to later mc. That is what rmc does to a formerly soft soul, unfortunately.

My doc has done her doctorate thesis in looking at old church books and seeing that even in the old times, mothers of boys more often than mothers of girls did not have other children in next 5-10 years, then had another one. Which is in this sense good to know that this immune reaction seems to lessen over time. I think what I am seeing with my own pgs is exactly this. but since I am 45 the question is whether I will recover before menopause hits or not. This forced pause in having kids is supposed to be a nature's way of protecting mother from bleeding to death with next pregnancy, so body is protecting itself. Why boys do more harm to uterus is totally unclear. Sorry, body, we are in 21st century and even if I have had difficulties shedding placenta since DS1, I have never bled to death, so get over it, pls!

counting thinking of you tomorrow, hope you manage to get some sleep tonight .

bootles what you noted about every lining being different is really reassuring, like each time is a fresh start.

loopy providing we get a good quality embryo they'll just put one back. If they're poor quality and chances aren't high they'll put two in to increase the odds.

Thanks for all the lovely support .

minnie not sure that was clear..after waiting for 1st af post mc we started ttc..i used left over meds (prog from day 21) as that was the protocol i was on under coventry. Taken me this long to get the follow up (work/childcare/illness etc) so he suggests trying another couple of months then having a repeat scratch. Glad your first day back was ok.

bunny good about the sickness but it does sound grim

Definitely more secondary rmc women have boys than girls, just the immune theory that Coventry were disagreeing/lack of evidence on.

I think P.Brosens is aware of this thread. I said lots of people learn about the clinic on here.

I know, really, that my odds are still not great, but he has given me a little teeny bit of hope. He said (I really don't mean to keep quoting him like a blindly hopeful Idiot - I'm really not) the only reaon to stop trying is because you want to.

mrsdiddly glad its helpful - I didn't take notes before and wished I had, so did this time.