Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 18 - tests, treatment, trying again.

[bakingtins]

Buckle up, the threads move like lightening! Tea, sympathy, information, support and combined wisdom to guide you through the maze of testing and treatment for recurrent miscarriage. Newbies always most welcome.

Please start with the traditional recap of your stats.

bythesea good luck!

just congratulations on viability, another fantastic milestone reached

barking glad the hypnotherapy was so helpful. I did contact the natal hypnotherapy people to suggest a TTC after loss track when we last discussed it but they never replied. Maybe you could suggest to your practitioner she could do something? It can't be that difficult to produce a cd?

ohfliperty welcome to the thread. The RESPONSE trial is to do with immune modulation, is that right? Some of those currently going through testing might be interested in joining you.

jady sorry work are being crap. Are you sure resigning is what you want? Can you get yourself off sick and think about it for a while? It seems crap if you feel backed into a corner and forced into it. That said, I might be joining you, I have a meeting with work today to say I can't go back at the end of my mat leave in May. I'm really hoping they say I can have unpaid leave but it's a small company and they're not obliged to offer me anything.

Hoping that radio silence from tanny means baby tan arrived overnight....

The Becky Watts thing is awful right on my doorstep too, one of the woods they searched is where I walk my dog.

Flen that does help thank you. I have been getting twinges and aches and I think they have been worrying me but it sounds as though the uterus contracts back and that can cause some mild pain. I just want to get back to 'normal' again. This part is the worst part for me as resetting hormones takes ages.

sebs how I hate that sodding form! This time I spoke to the MW and explained I would be having all my early care from the RMC clinic but she booked me a 12 week scan - the RMC clinic won't do an 'official' 12 week scan and the NT measurement where I am. In the end I did see her for the first time at around 11 weeks but that would not have been early enough to get the 12 week scan booked.

No signs yet, I'm afraid! After much googling (what else to do between 2.30 and 4.00 every morning?) I have found out that what I going through is perfectly normal and is latent labour. Which actually really helps. I think I had this last time, and I ended up with only a 4 hour active labour after all the fannying about. Basically I am doing loads of the prep work, effacing and dilating, without having an awful lot of pain because it is happening much slower than in active labour. Bonus!

DH is here today and looking after DS, so that should mean I can crack on. This baby will definitely get here sometime soon, and actually knowing this has helped me reach some sort of Zen like state!

Just what a great milestone to reach x

Wherever you are Tanny, all ladies on here sending you love and strength!!!!! X

You sound very calm tanny, that's great! Hope the latent labour does its job so you can just sneeze and baby tan arrives

Great news on reaching viability just! Must feel like a big milestone x

fliperty, sorry, I'd missed your post. I nearly joined the response trial but decided against it in the end as i was worried about a trial and also didn't think I'd be able to get other treatment alongside it (ie progesterone, heparin). I'm now just waiting to go for NK testing at Coventry following another mc and wondering if I should have just gone for it. So if Coventry comes up negative then i might join the trial (assuming I've not already turned 38 by the time i get round to it, which is in August). Whereabouts are you?

Good luck Tanny dying to hear your exciting news!!

Bythesea good luck for scan today. We are thinking of you.

So I've been thinking of my questions for Mr Watts and have the following. Sis said she thought they were good and reasonable and she couldn't think of anymore but felt that was because to her it's obvious if that makes sense? So I wondered if any of you ladies had any more I could add

And still no AF!!!!!

1. Why have I suffered from 3 x miscarriages? (I appreciate the answer may be, I don’t know)
2. Apart from the first one at 5 weeks, is there a particular reason why I lost 2 and 3 at 8 ½ weeks?
3. What have my test results shown?
4. What do these results mean?
5. Will you be doing an intra-uterine scan on me?
6. Does Worcester offer Genetic Karyotyping?
7. If not, is this something we can pay for?
8. High natural killer cells? Are steroids an option?
9. Is presence of cat litter trays a problem? (Big worry of mine!)

10. Have my 2 Loop diathermy procedures potentially been an issue? Are they likely to be an issue moving forward? 11. What treatment/action plan do you suggest for the next pregnancy? 12. Do you offer progesterone therapy? 13. How early do you suggest taking progesterone? 7 days post ovulation or from positive testing? 14. Do you offer treatment with Heparin in early pregnancy? 15. If I suffer a 4th miscarriage? What would you suggest then? 16. What are other options moving forward?

Sorry quite a lot there!!!

I hope your meeting goes well today Baking. It doesn't seem like you're asking much, no money just to keep your role open for you.

I have GP appointment this morning, not sure what I'm going to say, but something needs to let up and work is my main source of stress and has been for some time. I prob could go off sick, but I wouldn't be paid and would just worry about having to go back. I'm hoping to both go off sick and resign. I can't work with this boss. Talked it through with DP and agree that removing work will just be a huge weight off. We can move into his house temporarily and do some work to it whilst it's still on the market which will relieve financial strain. And hey, gets us into practice with less money when baby arrives! See... Still some positive thinking going on up there.

Just read fb post by uncle of Becky which really touched me . Who are these monsters??

Sounds like a reasonable list brummie. On point 9, this is something i was also worried about until i read lesley regan's book, where she categorically says that toxoplasmosis is not a cause of recurrent mc. If you were extremely unlucky it may have caused one (although highly unlikely as you have probably already had it if you have had cats for a while), but definitely not a cause of two or more mc, because it's like chickenpox in that once you've had it, you don't get it again. So don't worry about that as a cause x

Tanny glad you're feeling calm. Hope it hurries up though!

Questions sound good Brummie.

Would they test foetus if it happened again?

Can you get a list of exactly what has been tested so far for your own records?
They'd be my extra questions

And remember to take a notepad and pen with you for the answers, unlike numpty me who forgot to even ask the questions I had in front of me.

I did ask my vets too Brummie they said to just drop round cat poo samples and they can test it. I haven't done in favour of making DP clear it out instead

That sounds like a very comprehensive list of questions Brummie. I have no idea who Mr Watts is though

Thanks all! I'm sure the cat thing is a red herring but covering all bases!

Sebs Mr Watts is recurrent miscarriage specialist and clinical director at Worcester Hospital and both me and Loopy are under him.

My sister worked for him when she was an obs & gynae registrar so I've been name dropping shamelessly at the hospital. Needs must and all that!

Good list Brummie - and i think a pen and notebook is of key importance. It shows you are taking record of what they are saying, its permanent and you mean business. A lady with a pen is not to be messed with.
Re cats - i have two british blues so this was also a fear of mine. But some of the results of my blood tests came back already and it was negative for tox.... I think it must be one of the first things the nhs test for, with diabetes and thyroid. Xx

Aaah that makes sense now. I have no idea who I will see in regard to recurrent miscarriage at my hospital but I doubt it will be anyone 'known' probably the poor trainee gynae that I terrorised in my consultation
Pre-OP. He will see me trundling down the hall and make a run for it.

brummie I think they are good questions, I would be asking if there are any adverse effects to the different options and if there is any evidence, research or anecdotal that supports his advice? I would be really interested to hear of the feedback you get if you were happy to share?
Does anyone know of links between corpus luteum and m/c - when I was scanned they identified a cyst or corpus luteum on my left ovary. This pregnancy stopped growing at 7 wks, at around 7 weeks I had a pain bad enough for me to suspect an ectopic which was a twisting/stabbing type feeling on my left ovary and continued to have discomfort on that side since?
Also, its two weeks since this m/c was confirmed and today is the due date of my 1st m/c and I just dont know what I'm supposed to think/feel - all I do feel is lethargic in my life.

Maverick - interestingly it was so commented on my (good at that point) 9 week scan that I had a cyst on my ovary and that was the corpus luteum. She said that was a good thing as it was providing hormones for the pregnancy. Never considered it might be a bad thing!!

Brummie I don't know what mr watts usual course of action is, but FYI when I saw a Julie she thought he would have done a hysteroscopy on me because I have had emcs, elcs, and ERPC. He has prescribed baby aspirin and progesterone and I had confirmation from Monica this week that assuming we make it to the 6 week scan and all is well, he is happy to prescribe heparin for me. Now it might be that he is only doing all of the above because I tested positive for lupus anticoagulant, or it might be he is happy to try these with everyone. So I'm not trying to get your hopes up but he is clearly open minded enough to believe there are benefits to these treatments.

Sebs mummy, my GP and midwife have no idea I am pregnant this time. All my medications came from the hospital and the hospital have arranged my early scan. My GP surgery did the blood tests but only because I chose to go there rather than do the long drive back to the hospital. They clearly have little to do with them as I got lots of tuts about my tests not being tests they are used to doing and non of the 2 nurses/ 2 phlebotomists knew what they were for! It reinforced in my mind that I was right to opt to be referred to the hospital in Worcester (county where I live) rather than the one in Warwick (county that the GP surgery is based). Seems odd though that Warwick would be so bad given how close they are to the Coventry clinic!!! Unless my GP is located is some weird Bermuda Triangle kind of place where no one ever has miscarriages and needs sending for tests!

Tanny I hope you are not kept waiting much longer!

Oh and he never said anything re when to start progesterone. They gave it me before I could even get a BFP, so I think I started it about 8/9dpo but really hard to know for sure, and I started the aspirin from the day I got a test to agree with me, as Ive see a few things saying aspirin before BFP is risky and I think a few people on here said to wait until get BFP. Heparin only starts once they have checked the location of the pregnancy on the 6 week scan.

Are you tempted to test again?

Sorry you're having a hard time today maverick. Hugs to you . I think it's sometimes hard to feel anything but numbness. It never goes away but it does get easier with time. Its still very fresh and raw for you. Its taken different times to feel human again after each of mine. No3 took me 9 weeks to emerge from the fog. Give yourself time x

I also had a clc with the pg that turned into mc3,which happened in October. From what I've been told and read,it had no bearing on mc or future pg, it's just where the progesterone producing corpus luteum closes over. I was worried about not being able to get pg with it there, as it was still 5cm several weeks after mc and i still had pain from it, but still managed to get pg, so doesn't affect it. Still felt pain from it until a few weeks ago, so can take several months to go away.

Good luck today bythesea

Great news just

Maverick

I've just been to the Drs about chest pain (thinks it's just pulled muscle from coughing tho ) so thought I may aswell mention blood tests again and he's ordered the blood clotting one (apl??) so booked in this afternoon to have it taken. Yey! never thought I'd be so pleased to have blood tests!

I'm not sure about clc, although as march says, it probably has no bearing on it.

I have my own query on a cyst type problem if anyone has any thoughts??

...I was having one-sided cramping, actually more like burning pain after mc1 whilst still bleeding. On scanning (to check for 'retained products') they said it was a 'normal' cyst as part of my cycle or a 'dominant follicle'. I then thought I'd ovulate soon but continued to bleed instead whilst also convincing myself I was pg again!. I also had the same pain around the time of ovulation in my 1st cycle post mc1. It then disappeared the next cycle and we conceived but lost it the next month.

It just makes me wonder if the pain was because the folicle became a cyst and caused mc2 or, if it was because I was trying to ovulate but my body couldn't so the egg got a bit old n mouldy and then was no good, so caused mc2.

Sorry that's just me rambling! Just one of the many possible reasons I'm trying to make sense of or write off!

Another one with work issues here - although probably not as bad as jady
I've been called into a meeting due to the amount I took off work for medical appointments and sickness last year - apparently, so that they can see if they can help me in any way... I went back and checked, and about 95% of these absences were either pg- or mc-related. I reckon it's going to be a very short meeting
I never put the pg appointments down under the 'antenatal appt' option, as they all happened before I told anyone at the company that I was pg. Reckon next time I will probably let HR know and start logging them as such, to save them and myself the extra work.

Sorry Flower, I don't have anything to contribute, but hope you find an answer soon.

Good luck with meeting Cloud. I agree with letting them know early on, not sure they have to class as pregnancy related if they don't know, but I'm sure they'll be understanding.
I'm just back from GP who was really lovely and willing to support my decision to resign and has signed me off for the month so I don't have to go back. Don't think it will sink in until I've handed my notice in though. DP will be handing over fit note and letter tomorrow for me. Yikes!