total headwreck, empty sac 11 days ago, embryo 6wk there today...

[SuperGlue]

It was very hard to put this into a title but basically I had a dating scan 11 days ago when i reckoned i ought to have been 9 weeks pg. In the scan there was an empty embryonic sac measuring 7 wks but no yolk or fetal pole. The sonographer said it was most likely a miscarriage but that I would need to come back in 10 days to see if there was any growth during that time as a protocol.

I have spent the past 11 days in total turmoil and limbo. Waiting any moment to miscarry etc.

Went back today for the second scan expecting to be taken in this week for a d&c only to find that the sac had grown in the 10 days and there was now a yolk, fetal pole and an embryo measuring just 6 weeks. No heartbeat but she said heartbeat would kick in, if it was going to, over the next 7 days. SO basically she could not confirm that it was a miscarriage at this stage but that we would need to go back this day next week to see if there is a heartbeat. If not it will be confirmed then.

She was fairly certain that there was a problem with the development of this pregnancy and that the most likely scenario would be that it would develop this far and trail off and we would not find a heartbeat on Monday.

I just can't get my head around it all. Even if my dates were out a bit, I didn't think it was possible to be out that much.

Has anyone else ever gone through this?

I feel like my head is about to explode trying to take it all in / work it all out and another 7 days waiting stretches out in front of me..........

How are you today Toni and TomCat?
I've done a pg test and got a negative this morning. That's a relief. Now just need to stop bleeding. Always waiting for something!

west so glad u got ur negative, finally. hope the bleeding eases up soon and u r ok.

Thanks everyone for your support. I actually went into work this morning (nothing seems to be happening very quickly so figured it was safe), kept my head down and sorted out some stuff I can do from home. I just muttered something about flu to anyone who was brave enough to approach me! My manager's really understanding and I know I'm under no pressure to meet deadlines, but at least now the distraction is there if I need it. I think facing people who don't know is the hardest thing and I'd rather just keep my head down and hide until it's all over. I've told a couple of close friends what's going on and they've been lovely. I don't see any reason to hide this; as far as I can tell there are too many women out there who obviously have it really easy and assume it's a lot less common than it really is. Having said that, I knew the risks and actually felt that something wasn't right, but I still felt like I'd been hit by a bus when faced with that empty screen.

Gingerbreadmam, thanks so much for sharing your story with me. It sounds like you've been through a horrible time and I hope you're starting to deal with it somehow. From the different stories on here, I guess I need to be prepared for anything.

What I feel I really don't want is a longer wait, it looks like any kind of development stopped 6 weeks ago, so how much longer can it last? I just want it to be over with as soon as possible. Are you normally given the option if it's early enough for medical management? I quite naively thought that it could all be over within a few days and maybe I can be back at work this time next week, but it looks like I'm just at the beginning.

Superglue and fromwest, so sorry you've had to endure so many losses and years of trying. I feel like I must be one of the lucky ones (at the moment) because this is my first pregnancy and I'm 33 so hoping I still have plenty of time left (people in my family have a habit of having children very young though, which means they're annoyingly all waiting for me to catch up). But at the same time, because this is my first, in the back of my mind is that thought 'what if it happens again, and again?'. How do you even begin to deal with that? I suppose I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it.

Off to do some more waiting. Virtual hugs to all!

So sorry you had to join us Tomcat. If you are measuring 6 weeks they have to rescan as it can be too early to pick up a heartbeat. If you know what route you want to go down be ready to state your case and ask for what you want. For my first m/c I was 16 weeks measuring 8. I often wonder what would have happened if my GP didn't try to get a HB with a Doppler, how long my body would have held on to the pregnancy as I had nothing, no spotting or anything. Where I am they don't offer a first scan until 20 weeks. I reckon I could possibly have gotten that far, I can't imagine how awful that would have been. From the research I did I knew I wanted an ERPC and pushed for that, but everyone is different so do what you feel is right.

As Scarlet says once your mc is confirmed you can ask to arrange treatment quickly. Naturally it can take a very long time. After my MMC was confirmed I waited four weeks and then decided to have medical management as nothing was happening. They had offered me treatment immediately, it was my choice to wait.

Don't worry about trying again. The chances of success are very good. On the other hand you might miscarry again and a very small number of women are sufferers of recurrent mc. Most likely you will be one of the majority. You will never know if you don't try! Hope for the best!
I've had 3 mc in total, the first was 13 years ago. I've also had successful pregnancies and have a family, so I think I've been very blessed overall.

20 weeks is a long time to wait, Scarlet - just the 7 weeks between the bfp and the scan was excruciating! I've already decided that next time, we'll just pay for an early scan at about 8 weeks if we can (not that I've told my husband that yet!). I would definitely rather have known about this a month ago than be facing it now.

As for treatment, until today I thought I'd probably go down the medically managed route, as the thought of any kind of surgical procedure scares me. But from what I've read on here it sounds like a lot of natural and medically managed don't go that well and you often end up having to have an ERPC to complete it anyway, so maybe that's the best option. I really do just want to be able to move on as quickly as possible and put it behind us.

So nice to get honest opinions on here! And good to hear fromwest that even with 3 miscarriages you've had success too. Everyone I've spoken to so far has said 'of course you'll be fine next time' but I don't think that attitude will help me. I'll just try to stay positive for us that it won't be too long before we have a healthy pregnancy.

tomcat after my experiece i have already decided should i ever find myself in the same position i would request the erpc straight away. although it is an op requiring ga the scariest bit is getting the ga the next thing u know u are awake and its all over. i didnt have ay pain at all after erpc and only slight bleeding and usually with an erpc you can guarantee they have got everything. i did feel light headed for about 5 day afterwards but compared to the psychological trauma of waiting and the other things i had to go through it was nothing. also just so u now i wasnt trying to scare you just sometimes the advice from the hospital is very misleading and although some people might experience a heavy period its not the case for most people. also just for ur stats my pregnancy stopped at 5wks. i was nearly 14 wks when i had the erpc.

i also think, if it matters to you they cremate the products and scatter them in the crematorium in a rememberance garden (could be different for different areas) but i think that is nice in a way.

think about your options and discuss them with your dp. you are extra fertile after a mc and the statistics for your next pregnancy being succesful are really good. whats helping me is thinking of doing things differently next time round. i know it was nothing i did that caused the mc but it helps psychologically e.g. stop drinking coke priort ttc. shapeing up. taking folic acid prior to ttc and conception vitamins. all little things but mentally they make me think yes that will help.

hope youre ok

Thanks gingerbreadmam. I am sort of already doing the same in thinking about doing it 'properly' next time - we weren't really consciously ttc so I wasn't taking folic acid either. I was on my honeymoon and had cocktails every day so I definitely won't be doing that! Even if you know it probably didn't contribute to the mc, if it makes you feel better about it then it can't hurt to be extra healthy.
I am definitely edging towards the erpc now but I don't know if different hospitals have different policies on what they recommend. I would definitely ask what they do with the remains - the garden idea is lovely.
I'm about to go to dinner at my in-laws' ... not sure if they expect me to be my normal self exactly but am gearing myself up for talking about it without a shaky voice.

Quick question ladies.
6 days since my ERPC. I haven't had any fresh blood for 2 days, just some brown clotty discharge. Nothing seems 'abnormal' ie funky smell. But I've had some weird pulling like sensations in my abdomen. Kind of like a stitch, or even ovulation pain. Do you think its normal for what I've been through? I don't feel flu-y or poorly.

tomcat I've just been in a similar horrible experience to you. The idea of the ERPC was more daunting than the actual procedure. My advice - don't push yourself. Take time to heal physically and emotionally. The ladies on this thread have been my godsend.

mrsb i think if no smells and no temp or anything its likely youre fine but might be worth seeing dr for peace of mind? i had some stabbing pains a few days ago as if ovulating but that was almost 3 weeks after erpc.

tom dont think you have to hold it in. if you get emotional so be it youre going through a very difficult heartbreaking situation and anyone with an ounce of decency will be compassionate. it might do you good to let it out.

dont think the cocktails did anything and at least u had a good honeymoon i hope! like i said earlier mc jus happen but sounds like it may help you too to think of the good things u can do for future pregnancies. focusing all that energy elsewhere can only be a good thing any way better than stessing all the time.

i have a question actually and wouldnt mind some advice. i am planning on speaking to my union tomorrow about the way my absence and workload was dealt with whilst i was off due to all this, am i being silly? too emotional still maybe? i dont know. mentioned it to my dp earlier and he said you dont want to be causing any trouble which was one of my worries.

ginger - I'm facing something similar when I go back to work. I think its disgusting how some employers treat pregnant women, and women who've gone through what we have. It cant hurt to get advice.

Do what you think is right - if it helps you and you think you've been unfairly treated, it's your right to speak up.

i just dont know. i dont know if i have anything to raise if that makes sense and i certainly dont want to land my line manager or boss in trouble.

i left work early on the thursday for the first scan where i was informally told i had mc and to take 2 weeks off work for it to happen. i did as advised. let line manager know via text the day it happened but still called in sick the next day in line with policy. i did this over the next few working days and every time i spoke to my line manager to report absence i was asked when i was sending my sick note in even though by policy this wasnt required until 7 days absence had passed.

the other thing that upset me was after three weeks off sick i returned to work whilst still waiting to mc (hospital wanted me to do it naturally). i obviously wasnt in sound mind and didnt really want to go back but felt like i had to due to the sick note chasing and issues with someone else who had a terrible sickness record then 'left'. on my first day back i had to have a return to work meeting. i understand why these are necessary but as it was 'mitigating circumstances' what was the point? so there i was discussing my yet to happen mc with my boss.

anyway i had 3 weeks worth of emails to check talking 200+ along with a million tasks i complete regularly and project work i was in the middle of. also a pile of filing sat right on my desk i hadnt had chance to put away. none of my work had been touched. i even had emails from my line manager copying me in saying i would pick stuff up on my return. so i had all this to catch up on then my line manager who is in the same office as me and works closely alongside me dishing out tasks on top of tasks.

i felt no-one considered the work i had to catch up on or my emotional welfare. but is this me being sensitive and is it because it is something a bit taboo?i expected my line manager to understand as she has children. when i thought today if my manager had been a man would i have expected the same?

i dont know what outcome i want so dont know if theres any point.

Ginger - it wont hurt to get advice from the correct people. You're not looking to get anyone in trouble. It might help to raise issues that could help support yourself, and others further.

Yes, it can be taboo, but I shouldn't be. You should still be offered support and help if needed.

It doesn't hurt to get advice at the end of the day.

I'm looking at doing the same and fearing the repercussions, but my situation has been ongoing before MC and its only going to get worse if I don't do something. For me - being treated like crap at work has been the final straw and its deeply unfair and hurtful to feel like I have to make excuses and be sorry that I've missed work.

As far as advice I've received, you don't have to discuss the details in a return to work. They can only ask if you are fit to work, and should offered a phased return. It is their duty of care to ensure you are fit physically and mentally - and offer you any help you feel necessary ie reduced work load.

because the meeting was the first day i didnt really have the chance to realise how busy i was if that makes sense. like i say i dont want to cause trouble i dont think any of it was done deliberately or anything like that i just expected it to be treat more sympathetically and with more understanding which i suppose isnt their duty as such.

the workload issue does need raising i should possibly do this directly with my line manager when i feel upto it. i remember someone saying earlier on the thread they wanted to change duties after going through this as they lost confidence in themselves i guess thas how i feel at the min. project work was mentioned today and i just wanted the ground to swallow me up i dont know if im going to manage it.

that sounds awful about your work. are you in a union and have you arranged to meet with them?

Maybe get some advice, and then ask for a meeting with your manager to discuss work load? I know it seems easier from an outside perspective, but I understand how stressful it is.

I'm not in a union, but need to be. Basically I know that once things settle down they'll find a reason to let me go as now they know I'm TTC. Its awful, end of the day though, I'm looking elsewhere as I just cant take that hanging over my head with every thing else going on.

Tomcat sorry you've had to join us.

Scarlet I can't imagine having to wait until 20 weeks for a first scan, it makes me sad to think about women getting so far before discovering the baby stopped growing months ago!

MrsB after both my ERPC's I had all sorts of aches and pains including the pulling sensation you described. I think it's just due to the trauma your womb has been through during the op. ERPC might seem like the most straight forward method but I have to warn you all that I was refused a third because the walls of my womb are now too thin and could rip (they become thinner with each op).

Ginger I'm sorry work have made things more difficult for you during an already difficult time.

I've had a bit of a meltdown at work today (privately not infront of anyone). I have to deal with a very dysfunctional family as part of my role and have passed on my child protection concerns time and time again due to neglect. I was informed today that the Mum is now pregnant with her 6th child. I am really struggling to deal with the injustice of it all.

thanks mrsb. suppose theres no harm in discussing it with the union see if they can offer any advice. i am still in two minds so will have a think about it this morning.

are you having much luck with the job hunting? its crap you should have to do that. could you play the ttc down and pretend you accidentally fell pregnant (not that you should have to) if it keeps your job safer for a while? try and join a union if you can and keep things recorded of how youve been treat and email trails things like that incase you should ever need them. im sure they'd be on shakey ground if it was obvious they 'let you go' for the wrong reasons.

chubby im so sorry that is such an injustice. no wonder you had a meltdown it just doesnt seem fair at all. im sorry you are having to deal with that. have a good vent on here, weve all had those thoughts at some point am sure!

Ginger - I agree with what others have said, that it can't hurt to at least approach your union and see where you stand. I think it's horrendous to be treated that way on your return to work when you clearly weren't up to it. I'm lucky to work for a large organisation where the workforce is mainly female, many of us in 30s and 40s - there are a lot of pregnant women (not looking forward to that when i go back to work) but it also means they may be understanding than the average. Only my line manager knows what's happening at the moment, and she's being very understanding and encouraging me to stay off work - but this is what I think you should expect, not something to be grateful for.
MrsB ... how awful to have pressure at work as well as everything else you've been through. You're right that it shouldn't be taboo.
Chubbymummy - your job sounds tough and it's no wonder this affected you. I think the thing that hurts the most about mc is how unfair it is when there are so many unwanted pregnancies out there, abortions, people who weren't even thinking about getting pregnant and then seem to sail through it, and then the people who have more than their share. An old friend of mine posted on facebook the other day a photo of her newborn - her fourth child. I've taken a break from facebook for a while, there are just too many new babies and seemingly perfect pregnancies. Nobody ever posts about a miscarriage, do they?!
Thanks for sharing about the refusal for a third erpc too, it's good to have all the facts. I was turning this over in my mind last night (when I was meant to be sleeping) and the idea of it, even though I was leaning towards it, is starting to scare me. I think all three possibilities are scaring me now actually as Friday's re-scan gets closer. The other side of the coin is that maybe I haven't processed this properly and need to give myself more time, in which case maybe I should let it happen naturally, or at least go for medically managed, because then I'll be able to process what's happening instead of it all being done under anaesthetic.

If you choose medical management I think it's more effective if you have the pessary as well as the oral tablets. This is what was done for me and it was fully effective. I had to spend a day in hospital to have it done. Ginger and wonky did not get the pessary and their med management did not complete. I'm thinking there's a link.

ahh west you beat me to it i was just going to say if medical management is done in hospital it seems to be quite affective. you are in the best place if the pain is too much or anything else goes wrong and they check what you pass so can be sure everything has gone as it should.

i dont think it was medical management that caused my problems but if the hospital had seen what happened when i did it they probably would have been able to tell me it handnt worked which would have prepared me for what to come.

i felt very silly when i finally did end up in hospital too as when i had what i thought was the mc the blood loss was unbelieveable but i thought i was fine as id read that could be the case. i actually think looking back i probably put myself in danger that day thinking it was normal and should have gone to hospital. no harm done in the long run but medical supervision is probably a better way to go.

oops i meant effective.

I agree. My medical management was done in hospital (private room) and I was only allowed to go home when they were satisfied that I had passed everything (bed pan). The staff gave me and DH plenty of privacy and we're on hand with pain killers, water etc.

Thanks for your help, ladies. The thought of the erpc still scares me even though you've all reassured me that anticipation is the worst part generally. I spoke to my mum about it last night - she's a midwife herself but never tries to impose her opinion on me - but she seemed to be saying that the surgical option is usually viewed by a hospital as a last resort, and that if it can be done by medical management then it's best for the body. I'll listen to what they have to say at the hospital tomorrow before I decide either way, but I've got a long list of questions for them thanks to your advice.

I've started bleeding this morning - I've been waiting for it since Monday but it's definitely red now. It's not heavy yet, but I'm scared of what's to come. I've always had heavy periods and sometimes the blood loss then makes me feel queasy. I'm bracing myself for a horrible few days. I think I read this in another thread, where someone said they'd pampered themselves a bit when they knew it was happening so they felt as nice as possible about their body. It sounds daft but I'm going to shave my legs, pluck my eyebrows and put on some make-up.

not daft at all, do anything that makes you feel better about yourself. it could be the start of things.

its useful your mam is a midwife least she will give you good advice. it probably is a lot better not putting yourself through an operation and i know with my hospital it definitely was a last resort however some people have said this can be due to funding and that wouldnt surprise me.

i suppose if you can cope with the medical management then it is worth a try. i kept telling myself when doing mine at least it will all be over by the end of today. the pain is painful but for me it was more annoying than anything. i took cocodamol i think with mine or codeine cant remember which and the first lot took the pain off for a couple of hours but the second lot didnt touch it. if you do it in hospital though i know you can get stronger stuff if you need it.

before everything that happened to me i would have opted for the medical management as it seemed like the next best thing to natural.

Tomcat - good luck, hope it passes off as peacefully as possible for you. I did what you mentioned and once the bleeding started but was managable I had a long shower and washed my hair, took time to blowdry it, put some make up on (my skin was v bad during this time) and put on clean comfy house clothes (jogging bottoms and cosy hoodie) and some perfume and it really truly did make me feel a teeny bit better so I can recommend that approach.

Fantastic that your mum is a midwife so at least you can get advice from her.

Hi to everyone else xxx