The virtual girls' holiday in Ibiza thread - moving on from mc with or without ttc but with plenty of wine and virtual all night dancing

[freelancegirl]

Ok ok I succumbed to peer pressure to create the thread. This is a place for some of us (and anyone else who wants to join) who have been through the downs of mc and are ready for brighter days and a place to chat nonsense away from the How Are You Feeling Post MC thread. The How Are You Feeling thread should still survive, especially for those newly going through the process, but here we can move on to hopefully brighter days.

Really (newly minted with a BFP and therefore the first of the group to be properly ttc) can kick us off with her no doubt filthy dalliance with a Geology student (was it?) in Crete and we can all pretend we are in a girls' holiday in Ibiza. Grab a glass of sparkly and plonk your (this is virtual so we can look exactly as we want to) toned bikini bodied bum on a bar stool! xx

Thank you all,

Yup, just a load of old fuckity bollocks. The actual consultant was lovely but the doctor who did the scan was inane. I have never wanted to punch someone so much in my life.

The other thing which is pissing me off it that they don't listen. I say, 'the latest conception date was 4 weeks ago'.

They say 'well this is 2 week post conception, maybe your dates are wrong'.
'I know what date I shagged my husband, even allowing for late ovulation and late implantation, this is not making sense'.

'Maybe your dates are wrong'.

'No, I know when I shagged my husband'.

'Let's see if it has grown in a week's time, your dates might be wrong'
'Yes, because in the meantime I will be able to travel back in time and shag my husband on a different date and that will make all the fucking difference'.

The doctor who scanned me kept grinning and then said 'perhaps it's a blighted ovum' and then grinned some more. I am fucking amazed she wasn't m/c'ed herself.

Sorry all, am pissed off. But loving you all xxxxx

Bloody hell Really how bloody frustrating.

My conversation with the sonographer was similar. They said I was 5 wks gone - yet I'd done a pg test 6 weeks earlier that said I was 3+ weeks prg, their answer to that was 'well these prg tests aren't always accurate' - so they were basically saying the prg test knew I was prg before I'd even done the deed.

I totally understand your frustration and anger! Like you said - a load of fuckity bollocks!

Cream It so frustrating, because they just don't listen. And the one today wouldn't tell me anything. Am so sorry you had this too

I have to speak to the consultant tomorrow so am planning to put a set of questions together. Any ideas?

I just can't believe this is happening. Not really sure what to say. Wish I could think of something more helpful. Why don't medical professionals believe people who are obviously of sound mind and are clear that they know what they are talking about when it comes to their own body and their own activities? So flipping frustrating.

Did you go in on your own Really? Where were the DH and the DCs? It must have been so awful to be going through all that again. It makes me feel sick just thinking about you having to go through that.

Having had my 3rd mc (although I wasn't upset about the first two so they don't really count as much IYKWIM) I have chatted a lot to the ladies on the recurrent thread and that has been really good for swapping testing info. Of course it might just be bad luck, but if you have an ERPC do insist on some sort of analysis. With the books I have read since this mc it seems that often people who HAVE had successful pregnancies and then had a mc after have somehow developed Natural Killer Cells. Dr S is a strong believer in these and uses steroids to treat this very successfully.

Not in relation to mc but I have spent the last 14 years argueing with doctors who don't seem to get it (about thyroid), so I know to a certain extent just how frustrating that can be.

Wish we were actually sitting down with a glass of wine and discussing this in person. You probably want to be with the DH right now and at home but I feel like I want to be there with you helping you go over it all!! Like I said on text, I know a shed load about testing now so if it comes to it we can have that conversation. Happy to come to yours and have some daytime wine somewhere nice and sunny whilst we try to look responsible in looking after the DCs. In reality though, I don't want you to be my 5am Fear Buddy anymore, I want you to be in a happy bubble having a lovely pregnancy :( . But if it is not to be this time, we will definitely make sure we do everything we can to help it be good news next time.

xxx

Ideas - yes:

CHECK THYROID HORMONES
CHECK FOR HIGH THYROID ANTIBODIES
CHECK SELENIUM LEVELS
CHECK VITAMIN D LEVELS
CHECK FOR PROGESTERONE DEFICIENCY - ALTHOUGH USUALLY SHORT CYCLES
CHECK FOR HUGHES AND/OR STICKY BLOOD

LATER, DISCUSS IF YOU NEED A FURTHER REFERRAL TO ST MARYS (probably won't accept you until you have 3 in a row) OR DR S (will accept you and has private appointments. IN FACT LOOK THROUGH HIS VERY GOOD WEBSITE TOO. APPOINTMENTS ARE AVAILABLE A LOT EARLIER.

Sorry about the caps - it was edited from my Action List after my mc and they were already in existence and wanted to get this to you quickly.

Dr S would probably TEST FOR NATURAL KILLER CELLS AND CYTOTOXIC B CELLS KARYOTYPING. Can't remember what the latter is but I have some great books on it and I will send them in your direction or get you links.Pretty sure your consultant won't/won't have the power.

Dr S's clinic (great info as well as contact details):

www.miscarriageclinic.co.uk/

I don't want us to over react as this could really just be bad luck, but I imagine like me you want to be doing something just in case, so looking into tests right now is something you are probably up for.

READING LIST:

www.amazon.co.uk/Miscarriage-What-Every-Woman-Needs/dp/0752837575

www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Body-Baby-Friendly-Unexplained-Infertility/dp/0978507800 (VERY good)

Really I am so sorry that you didn't have good news - not sure why they don't believe women when they are sure about dates -with me i was tempted to go back with a photo and date of my positive test (i tooked quite a few) just to prove them wrong but instead continued onto the pub! I was really hoping that it was good news for you as it would have been good for you (and us all) to have our faith restored in the world!

Why was she grinning? I would have very been tempted to remove her grin!! Some people may be very good technically at their job but surely working in that sort of area should be better at dealing with the people aspect of the role.

I think my first question for the consultant tomorrow would be why? and if they don't know why - what can they do to find out why? then ask what you can do and when and get a timeline of what will happen now? also, if you are going private, i guess cost is a good question too? (I think private is not necessarily better care but if you are willing to pay they will bypass their protocols designed to make the best use of NHS resources for everyone - meaning that you can get things quicker. The NHS spend alot of time deciding on how much benefit a person will get versus cost to decide the best use of the money pot - sorry I worked in the NHS a while back.)

So so sorry again really and it could still be one of those bad (well very very bad) luck things and that hopefully the fact that you already have two boys will mean that you can get your next baby very soon. x x

Just saw frees post and her list of tests sounds good and much more comprehensive than me......x

Free You are a superstar. This is all amazing and gives me something to work on - if I feel proactive it will help alot.

I had a look at Dr S's clinic before, when you put a link on before. He sounds amazing, so great that someone actually gives 2 fiddles about m/c. I am going to google the tests you mentioned now.

Thank you so much xxx

LIG x posts. Thank you for the lovely post. Yup, I wish they'd believe us and our dates. And the grin. Yup. Awful, awful woman. She may be a good doctor but I think she might be better off in the mortuary where she doesn't actually have to give feedback to her patients.

Am hoping it might be a batch of bad eggs I have to crack (I do too much baking, I will be checking my flour levels next) before it works out. But I don't know. Something is amiss and I don't know what.

I know! Sad news for the thread and sorry for the me, me, me. Thank you again xxxx

Yes, copy and paste those test suggestions and take them with you. Most of those (apart from the NK cells and the things some people don't believe in) I got my GP to do. I think I might have told you before that if I forget to ask for any test I just write it as an addendum myself and they seem to do it! Vitamin D is being thought by some people as being crucial to pregnancy.

The midwife I emailed at Dr S's said take folic acid, pre pg vitamins, 25 units of Vitamin D and 75mcgs of Aspirin (used to be know as baby aspirin), although I did tell her I wasn't going to ttc until I saw Dr S. I haven't started taking the latter yet but was taking the rest, although that has tailed off of late. Also if you have asthma as I do, check you are not allergic to aspirin. Not sure how I will check - take my first dose outside A&E??

Order that Is Your Body Baby Friendly book now on Amazon. It's great.

Hope I didn't upset you with the rubber dog biscuit comment [worriedwasn'tquitetherighttimetoemployshitsenseofhumouricon] xx

Free You are always lovely, no need to worry. Did Dr S's midwife say that that was ideal for you because of your high thyroid antibodies, or for anyone at risk of m/c?

Oh no really - why is life so shit.
I'm so sorry you might have to go through this again.
I hope you don't mind me asking but what is your mc history so far?

Great advice free - I'm going to copy and paste that to keep for future reference. I'm also asthmatic - and also wondered how to tell if I'm allergic to aspirin.

Oh Really, I'm so so sorry. That was news I really didn't want to see when I logged on; I so hoped that things were going to be good for you. I am genuinely gutted for you. I can't offer any advice re your consultant beyond Dr Google but the lovely free seems to have provided a great starting point. And so sorry you had an idiot scanning you. I think they must have a special 'How to talk inane platitudes and downright upsetting gibber' module at sonographer's college. My favourite (after a worrying early scan with DS) was "there might be a baby or you might have had a miscarriage. Go away and have Christmas and we'll find out in the New Year." Arsewipes.

I hope that you have alcohol, chocolate and lots of hugs to get you through the next few days and longer. And of course you know that we are always here for you. xx

Arsewipes indeed. Thank you Arti If nothing else, at times like these, you find new and effective swearwords.

New words of my week the other week - describing my totally wiped out brain - was that my head was a total fuck field. It felt appropriate.

Really From what info I have garnered from the recurrent threads and random googling it seems that 'baby' aspirin (ie 75mg, Vitamin D, Folic Acid and Pre preg vits (I think including Omega 3) are pretty standardly recommended by him. Then the expert stuff - steroids mainly - gets prescribed on top of that. Although thyroid antibodies does lead to an increased level of NK cells (I keep wanting to say Natural BORN Killer cells) so do a lot of other things, including actually having had children. I wish I had my Baby Friendly book with me here as there was a really interesting section saying just that, but as I haven't had kids I didn't pay as much attention to it as I would have now on your behalf. BUT I have had previous pregnancies and that might be same thing.

I think one of the premises is the NK cells might be due to autoimmunity of various kinds (thyroid antibodies being just one) leading to the body attacking anything it seems as a foreign object.

Obviously, this is all total speculation but speculation is good nevertheless as this is how we get to learn things that may or may not help us.

bollocks

REALLY - HUGE HUGS YOUR WAY x x x x x x x

what a rubbbish dr.... oooooh they should kknow better....

sooooo much cheese, wine, chocolate, vodka, cocktails, fags, & anything else you want, sent your way......

oh honey - i agree with FREE - we're here to keep you as sane as we are ! ! ! ! x

pixie
x

ps - they didn't listen to me about my dates either & as you know - I couldn't have been wrong either ! ! ! bloody hell.x x x x

hugs honey x

Oh Really, I'm so sorry. Fuckadoodle and the rest. I hope you're okay today - well, as okay as you can be in the circumstances

That's a good list, free - I hope I never need it, but I shall definitely bear it in mind just in case....

Part of me just wants to stick my fingers in my ears and should "Lalalala" when I read things about Natural (unborn) Killer Cells and the like. But knowledge is power.....
At the moment, I'm still trusting to luck for the next time round...

Bad news about Kelly, too. How awful to lose a pregnancy so late. Poor thing.

I think we all need another jug of sangria. It's been a depressing 24 hours...

I thought this Daily Mail article was interesting:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1385770/Kelly-Brook-miscarriage-Are-women-losing-babies-late-pregnancy.html

FREE - that's awful - can't you sue them?????

REALLY - this will make you laugh - i tried to send you a PM, but just typed Really in addresseeeeee - typed messge & sent - I got a reply from some poor person not knowing what the bejeeehsus I was going on about, especially as there were plenty of bollocks' in there ! ! ! ! x

IC -I'd just put fingers in ears & hum/sing lalalala - sounds perfect...

Hi to everyone else - & where is that large jug of Sangria, I'm parched x

pixie x

Pixie! That is very funny. Nice to know someone out there thinks you're a mad person ranting about m/c and bleeding and bastard doctors! We should all send her further PMs to confuse her more.

IC/persuasive bunny, thank you for your lovely message.

Well, am having an odd day. Have 'fired' the gynaecologist - no way am I going back to that sonographer and getting anything out of his secretary is proving difficult. His team seem a bit ineffectual. I went to the GP and have the progesterone pessaries now. I managed to finally get yesterday's hcg result - 6000ish so good. I'm going to the gynecologist I saw with the last m/c
on Friday so see what's going on, get another scan and have another hcg bloodtest.

But, things aren't entirely making sense. The evil sonographer was referring to a photocopy giving gestational age by measurements. But they weren't by day but by week. So, my sac measures 7mm. Her list started at 5 weeks (11mm - which is an average). She waved it at me and send 'yours is so small, you're off the chart'. I have spent the morning online and there seems to be a rule to it. The sac grows roughly 1 mm a day. There is a medical rule that you add 30 to the length of the sac and that gives you the number of days of pregnancy. So mine would be 37 = 5.2 weeks. And that is not the same as a two week from conception pregnancy, which is what evil sonographer witch lady said. It would be a 3.2 week from conception pregnancy which would make it a few days later than I thought, but much more compatible with my dates. Plus it would fit in with my hcg level.

Am sure this is still going tits up but please, don't wave photocopied pieces of paper at me.

Am fuming that I have to spend my time doing someone else's job. Am hoping she has a terrible fall and drowns in a bedpan.

Sorry for the long, long rant.

Really it sounds hopeful then......I think these sonographers should pay a little more attention to people's emotions. Like artis sonographer to go home have christmas and think about it in the new year - i am not sure that they realise that it is not that easy - i couldn't even watch a comedy on TV let alone enjoy christmas. don't worry about the rant - it is good to hear that there is still a good chance it will be ok!!

free - that is very cheeky of them. i didn't know whether i was just paying more attention to miscarriages now or whether there were more. i really cannot imagine how kelly must be feeling - i think to get past the 12 weeks feel safe and see a proper bump must make it feel so real. in a way it didn't feel real being pregnant as i didn't get any symptoms except for big boobs and exhaustion and i was still gutted when i lost it.

pixie i am chuckling at your pm to the wrong person - that is the sort of thing i would do....usually in a work situation!

big waves to everyone - just about to catch my plane to Ibiza Heathrow :( to carry on the party! x

Ooops, sorry, Free didn't read that the DM nicked your idea, lthe cheek!

Jesus flipping Christ! So the sonographer might have totally got it wrong and you are actually carrying a totally viable baby??? Oh my god! WTF springs to mind!! What is wrong with these people!! If it had worked like that, there could have been a chance that you might have rocked straight up for an ERPC and got rid of the pregnancy!!! I am in total shock.

What are we going to do now (I feel it is a 'we' - I have been thinking of you all day and missing you on the board )? Wait to see what happens Friday? Another few days off the soft cheese (I think wine is acceptable given the circumstances) just in case? You must be feeling rather incredulous. I know I am on your behalf.

I don't think the DM stole my idea but they could have got back to me! On various 'journalist alert' things I am a member of I have seen another post asking for 'did you lose your baby just like Kelly and Amanda' request for stories so it looks like people are actually going to start doing something on the subject now. Which is good to a certain extent, BUT I wanted to do something! I am still waiting to here from one prod co about a potential documentary but not holding out much hope. And, er, yes I am trying to use my recent experience to boost my career but also I think it is a story that should be told and I think going for treatment, particularly as it is controversial, would make a fascinating story line. Particularly if it works next time

Ohh, feels like a long few days since I last used a

But a big to Pixie and her random email about mc! Some poor pregnant woman has probably got all paranoid now

Imagine Pixie managed to pm a random sonographer. They'll be quaking in their boots.

I rand the hospital and found out the details for the sonographer. She is a doctor but doesn't specialise in pregnancy ultrasound, she does general body scans and x-rays. Hmmm. No wonder she was using a photocopy.

I missed you guys today whilst I was Dr Google busy. And I have to say you are keeping me sane. Thank you for all the concern yesterday, it was so kind and much valued .

So yes, new appt on Friday. And we'll see what they say. So no brie until then. Goodness, I feel like I walked down this road very recently, oh yes, I did!

I think you'd be an ideal person to write about m/c and your forthcoming treatment. Have a horrible feeling though that m/c will become really fashionable and Jordan will be claiming one next. They're like soooo last season now .