Recurrent Buns - Miscarriage Testing and Beyond! Part three..!

[Julezboo]

Not so imaginative as lunatic !

Part One HERE

Part Two HERE

There are a mixture of Pg ladies, new BFP's (YAY) and new ladies who have sadly had to join us and are going through testing. Lots of OMW's and hand holding here!

Sit down, grab a cushion and a hot choc and get comfortable.

waterplate so sorry you've found yourself here but as you will find out there are a lot of success stories amongst us.
I would ask for basic hormone and thyroid tests. These are often done if pcos is suspected, so not necessarily a recurrent miscarriage thing. What are your cycles like? These tests can also tell you a little about your ovarian reserve (low on eggs means quality could be causing mc) - but this is unlikely to be the case unless you are in your mid forties.
Have you been scanned at all? A thorough ultrasound will show any uterine abnormalities - which is another cause of mc.
As the others mentioned there are tests for clotting and immune disorders but unless you have any other symptoms you are unlikely to get these tests on the nhs (unless you have a sympathetic doctor), but you can get these done privately.
The other test they do for recurrent mc is karyotyping - which is to test whether you or your DP carry a genetic abnormality you may be passing on in each pregnancy. This is v rare (only 5% of recurrent miscarrying couples have this problem - and considering only 1% of couples suffer rmc this equates to a 0.05% chance).

The overwhelming possibility is that you have just experienced two instances of bad luck - and there is no underlying cause. But I know that feeling of desperately wanting some answers. I second mummys suggestion to read Lesley Regan's Miscarriage book. It details what treatments are available for the various causes.

hairy great news, but I'm amazed they tested you for those things already! Those are exactly the tests I was told to wait two periods for. Makes me even more determined to push for earlier tests on Wednesday - as in all my digging around on MN no one else has been told to wait as long as me.

baubles heavy period is a good sign that you've probably ovulated. Well done on the conversation with your mum. Sometimes it's not that they don't get it, it's that they just try to say something to make us feel better without realising that 'distraction' techniques don't work at our age.

Have treated myself to no less than 3 v expensive bras from Rigby & Peller. I've been desperate to update them since boobs deflated after breastfeeding ds. But had put it off due to being pg/ttc.

Cervix has risen and softened so may be nearing ovulation as opposed to af. Don't care which as long as something happens - and if I can push for the clotting test to be done regardless of how many cycles I've had then I can stop worrying about it.

waterplate

just a quick footnote to digi's post...

"A thorough ultrasound will show any uterine abnormalities" ...except Ashermans Syndrome. (scar tissue on the uterus/cervix, another cause of recurrent mc) An HSG or and sHG might find it, but really the only way to accurately diagnose (and successfully treat it) it is to see an AS specialist doctor. There are only two in the UK, Dr Lower (private) and Dr Trew (private and NHS) Lots and lots more info available on www.ashermans.org.

hello waterplate like you, I have had 2 miscarriages this year.

I am currently 8 weeks into my third pregnancy. I asked my GP for tests after the second miscarriage. They checked for thyroid activity and anti-phospholipids. Nothing conclusive came up. There are specialist centres that will look at you and perform further tests, but they tend to wait until you have three.

I am waiting on tenterhooks with this pg. I echo lunatic 's sentiment about being pg, not having a baby. I was very weepy after my scan this week, imagining the next scan and mentally preparing myself for an ERPC 3 days before Christmas. I prepare myself for the worst because the best hasn't happened yet.

Incidentally, ESH did send me a letter in the post today to take to the MW on Monday. Any thoughts on what this might mean?

Gestational sac 17mm23mm12mm (which I think is on the small side as they have a little line next to it and the diamond is on the left)
Gestational sac volume 2.5 ml
Yolk sac (mean) 6.0mm (which I think is on the big side as the diamond is on the right)
CRL is 2.2mm (which is off the chart on the left for being small I guess).

The diagnosis is a viable intrauterine pregnancy, but with my history and discrepancy of dates, they will rescan in 2 weeks to confirm viability.

I just have to wait and see. I am considering a private scan with baby bond, but with work travel this week, I wouldn't be able to do it until Thursday afternoon. Does anyone think that private scans are better than through the NHS or does it really not make a difference?

LAF77 Don't read too much into the lines. Anything within the line is normal, not too big or too small. Too big or too small is normally off the line with a < or >. I personally rate private scans. For example, I had a scan the other week for retained products on the NHS and then another privately. The private one was much more detailed and came up with different measurements. When I have been pg, I have always gone to fertility clinics for a early scan as they are better able to help you if its bad news than places like babybond (plus you have to be 8 weeks for babybond, but 6 with the others). Are there any fertility clinics close to you?

Big welcome to waterplate, I am sorry you find yourself here. I have had 2 mc's this year, I have 1 dd who is 2. I have just had a few basic bloods done privately and waiting for the results. My GP won't refer me til I had 3 mc's. I am just having to work up the courage to get pg again :(

Waves to Lunatic, Mummy, digital, and broken and anyone else I missed!

Hello all, hope all are well.

I had my first accupuncture appointment today - two hours consultation, she thinks I have sluggish pulse, and that I need to get back to healthy eating, and exercise.

I must not drink any juice as it can cause mucus in the tubes and general reproductive system (I've been having about a pint a day).

I will have appointments weekly for treatment and she suggests not trying til March. However, I may have to cheat on that one as I am not going to start using contraception of any kind, any time soon.

I intend to lose two stone on Slimming World (which is a healthy way to eat if done right) - starting January.

Went to the Xmas 'do' for a few hours last night and it did me the power of good.

Hello :)

lunatic Yes I got pg on the Pill when I was 18, 5 years ago. Didn't have a clue and continued with my Pill (still bled on my breaks), found out I was pregnant at 12 weeks, all fine on the scan, and miscarried at 13 weeks on NYE :( It took me the whole week to get used to the idea and then it was gone. It was my 1st pg and my 1st mc, and the start of all my problems to date.

Good luck Monday viewing the delivery suite. DD's coat was nice and dry for shopping this morning

Julez hope it went ok with MW this morning :)

digi I am hopeful I ovulated, AF is still going strong, spent months wishing for it, now I wish it would bugger off

at your new lingerie. I am not blessed in that area I could get away with never wearing a bra.

LAF I have no idea about the information in the letter, sorry. But after reading the thread that frazzled linked to earlier up our thread I would say, you have nothing to lose from a private scan, if it is financially viable for you.

hairy glad the acupuncture went well. How did it feel when the needles went in? Interesting about the fruit juice. Is that why they say to drink pineapple juice from ovulation when TTC to help it stick more effectively?

I am also trying to lose weight. Have used weight watchers points before and didn't really work well for me but this time I am just trying to use my common sense and cut down on crap. I have an addiction to crisps that I need to work on and I live on carbs. Not good for PCOS. I have a few fitness DVDs and go to the gym twice a week so in my head that excuses the rubbish I eat!

Glad you've managed to get out and about to the party. Sometimes it's really hard to take that leap but once you do it you know you've done the right thing. :)

Hellos to glittery, mummy, frazzled and everyone else :)

Nothing new to report here. Af still present.

DD has discovered children's TV. That Justin guy is crackers. She has never taken an interest in it before but lately she is asking for it to go on. Nothing against Tv for kids but it drives me crazy!

Hi ladies,

lunatic I think I'm going to need you to send me some of those lucky pee sticks, no joy for us again this month except for the slightly extended luteal phase. Still I do feel more positive knowing that I have treatment plan lined up for when I DO get pregnant again and as everything on my side seems to be working ok (although consultant has asked for a day 21 progesterone test to check ov on next cycle) I think it's just a matter of being patient and try to lose some weight in the meantime.

I'm suffering a horrible cold right now so am glorying in my ability to dose myself with the best symptom relieving pills scientific endeavor has provided for us and hoping it clears in time for work do on Monday so that I can indulge in some festive spirit.

LAF really sorry that you've got this worrying scan, but looking at your results they are all seem to be pointing at 6 1/2 gestational age, according to this site here I know they've said to come back in a week but that website indicates that growth should be seen after 5 days so perhaps you could try to get an earlier follow-up scan (privately?) and then at least the you'll have a better idea of where you are with a bit more time before Christmas.

lovelybunch if you ovulated this cycle it would have been a maximum of 16 days before your period came, so if that pain happened within that timeframe I'd say it's a pretty good chance that it was associated with a follicle bursting.

hairy, digi, banana good news about various appointments and tests - good to know that progree through the system is being made even if it sometimes feels like at a snails pace.

glittery v pleased about nausea for you and I just hope and pray your scan is reassuring.

Looking back at this thread, the pain happened on the 1st Dec and AF came on the 6th. Surely 5 days isn't long enough for that pain to have been ovulation?

coco aka Baubles

I had pain from Tuesday until today - I feel a tenderness kind of sensation. and sometimes I get a very short, sharp pain (which I'm told could be the actual moment of ovulation!).

The juice thing - I think ther's someething specific in pineapple which helps implantation.

But she just said no fruit juice as it is mucus forming, and if I have blocked tube/s then juice could be unhelpful (I have about a pint a day!)

Ladies, as always there's lots going on and I'm lurking to check you're all okay, but not up to thinking straight enough to respond to you all properly tonight. I've tried very hard to keep myself occupied over the past two days, but I'm a bit beside myself in terms of fear about my scan now. I'm really not sure how I'll cope with disappointment. I know I've only known for 3 weeks, but it feels like a million years and I've tried very hard not to be remotely excited. Had a bit more spotting, but again nothing to write home about. Also, if symptoms were an indication of success, I'd feel really relieved, but I know after last time that this isn't always the case.

So, I'm just clock-watching and hoping the ms/ anxiety isn't too bad in the morning, so I can drive to the hospital before throwing up/ having a nervous breakdown.

I'm glad it's being done at the fertility clinic, as opposed to the EPU. They tend to be a bit more sensitive and professional. Am I right in thinking it will be an internal scan at this stage?

Sorry for such a selfish post. Promise to be a bit more considerate when I'm less insane.

Hope you've all had good weekends. X

lunatic It was cruel but no more cruel than any other mc. I don't count myself worse off for only knowing a week. It was a blessing in disguise. I find it hard to say that given the position we find ourselves in on this thread so please forgive me for any insensitivities, but I was 18, and completely under prepared for a baby, not with the father and not financially stable. But it was still emotionally scarring as hell.

i have been doing a nice sudoku whilst DD watched her shit lovely programmes today, much better than attempting to watch it with her!

My mum is 45 BTW. Bet you aren't that old!

I'll have some of those lucky sticks if you get them back!

Glittery Good luck and big hugs for your scan tomorrow :) hope you are up to updating us upon your return :) I would have thought it would be internal at this stage, yes. Or as Hairy said, Dildo-cam!

glittery you have my total sympathy and support. It is agonising counting down the minutes and hours. Is it first thing in the AM?

My guess is that you will have an internal scan. Have you had one before? They use a wand that had a disposable cover with lubricant on it. It is very slender. It shouldn't hurt.

There are so many variables of what can happen at the scan and you want to see the best, but feel like you need to brace yourself for the worst. I hope that you have good news tomorrow. I'll be rooting for you.

I have my appointment with the midwife and I've never made it far enough to keep my appointment with the mw, so in some way, I feel like I've scored a victory. I'm going to ask her if she thinks that I can have my follow-up scan on Friday, so in case the worst has happened, I don't have to have an ERPC 3 days before Christmas. I am in 2 minds about the private scan. On one side, I would like to have another scan right now and now what is going on, but if it was inconclusive then, I would be confused and will have spent £100 unnecessarily right before Christmas. There are 2 baby bonds near me banana and thanks for sharing about your experience as sometimes private treatment it can be better than going through the normal channels, but it depends on the situation. Thanks for the encouragement lunatic Those lines had me worried for awhile.

DH thinks that I am being morbid thinking that the baby could die and I wouldn't know about it, as I had 2 spontaneous miscarriages before. He thinks that I should just wait until the 21st. I know that it happens and anything can happen. I am just waiting around wondering if it is going to be a happy ending this time or if I will be a candidate for a specialist referral.

Thanks for the link to the site lady I suppose I should take comfort in the fact that we are talking about such small numbers, so it could be easy within the margin of error and everything is still OK.

It is so hard to live moment by moment and enjoy each day, but I've got to try, and not be a total OMW. I would really like to enjoy the build-up to Christmas, but it is hard when I feel like I have to hold back in case, it isn't a happy time.

Thanks ladies. I'm more than familiar with internal scans, I'm afraid to say. Had to have them every other day for the best part of three weeks before I fell pg. I'm trying to convince myself it's just another clomid check up appt with the dildo cam. So far it isn't working.

Only reason I asked is because I had an 8 week external u/s and wondered where the cut off point was. I guess I'll know soon enough. DS is being an absolute pain in the backside tonight. Typical. Just when I could really do with some sleep to make time go that bit faster. Good luck with the mw LAF. Will hopefully be a bit more coherent tomorrow!

Sorry Lunatic I'm such a selfish numpty. I haven't even acknowledged your scan yet, or wished you well for tomorrow. Unfortunately, I get a bit self-involved when desperately anxious. Very sorry.

I will be thinking about you tomorrow and sending positive vibes. Wish I could give you a hug too. My scan is at 10.30am, so not too much day to get through. Let's hope it's not too soggy or panic attack inducing for either of us! X

Good luck with scans tomorrow ladies.

Had painful back cramp yesterday and much heavier spotting. Was convinced AF was on it's way. But still not sure what is going on today. Perhaps I can beg for a scan on Weds.

LAF, Glittery, and Lunatic I really hope that everything goes well for you tomorrow and through the week.
Just reading about your nervousness makes me wish I could just gather you up and tell you it will all be ok. I am praying that it's the case for you all.
God it's horrendous isn't it. As much as I want to be pregnant right now, I am not relishing the idea of living through that fear again.
My cold has moved to my chest and it's quite painful. Think I will giving work evening party a miss but will attempt to go to work team lunch tomorrow even so. Been in bed a bit today but fatigue is upon me again, so will head up and say goodnight and good luck to the ladies who need it.

cross-posts digi and lunatic.
Digi - any chance that it's ovulation? Lots of the ladies on TTC post MC seemed to experience spotting on ov after their MCs.
Worth trying for a scan if you're worried though.

glittery just popping on to see how you are doing. will keep an eye out for you posting tomorrow. i'm absolutely sure all will be fine.

lf will be thinking of you too

Thinking of you all Glitrery Lunatic Digi and LAF

Right, catch up time ladies.

LAF sorry you have uncertainty to deal with. I remember going for a scan at 5+6 and not seeing a heartbeat, totally convinced myself it was over again, however, when I had my next scan a week or so later it was there and measuring 7 weeks. Babies grow at different rates when born, its just the same for them in the womb. Also as other posters have said it does depend on whos scanning you. I have had a flicker of a heartbeat at 5wk scans, it?s a scary time, will be thinking of you with your next scan.

Glittery thinking of you this morning, I?m amazed you are 8 weeks already! Will be popping in for the update all day. Nausea and vomiting is a good sign, i will happily send you mine if you like :)

lunatic good luck for your scan and appt, i can?t imagine how you are feeling at the moment. Must all be very scary, you are nearly there though! 2lb's is a good weight too.

Mummy I hope the painting/cleaning and shopping is coming along to plan! Thats one thing I am avoiding this Christmas is the visiting family :)

banana good luck for your appt on Wed. I hope the bleeding and spotting has stopped now for you.

Lovely Glad AF has arrived and you can know where your cycles are up to now!

frazzled still time for your little man to turn! Fingers crossed he does soon, glad everything else is okay though.

hairy glad to see you are looking forward to going back to work, go easy on yourself though.

Digital Hope appt goes well and you are able to have the tests you want/need. Do make sure they do an ultrasound on your uterus in a non pg state. This is what picked up my septate uterus after me having so many pregnancies and probably about 1000+ scans!

waterplate sorry you are finding yourself here and good luck with your testing.

ladybee and sunny hope you are both doing okay?

mumatron you are so close to your due date now!!! Are you ready? Scared? I cant wait to hear sh has arrived and see a picture!

All plodding along nicely here, 31 weeks today. Scan is booked for 20th. BP is a tad on the low side still and no matter what I do I cannot get the bugger to come back up! Reflux and sickness still here and having two sick boys at home has actually don wonders for my back/rib problems because DH has been taking the car to work and I havent had to drive. All back to normal tomorrow though.

Made Playdoh with the boys this morning, thy are sitting nicely for a change playing with it. Shortbread presents are in the oven for elderly neighbours and hopefully after next weekend we should be ready for christmas! Still have loads to do but DH is taking on the bulk of it.

I have a little feeling that at my scan next week my fluid levels will have dropped a little. Either that or I am peeing myself but baby is very active, bump is growing well and I am getting a LOT of pressure down below, MW was here Sat morning in the end, wee was clear, BP low, baby is engaged she didnt say by how much but she said thats why I am getting pains and pressure. Hoping to get section date on teh 20th at my next scan/appt. GTT was clear though :)

Anyway, need to run, get the shortbread out of the oven. Will pop back later for update on scans/appts x

julez i was just thinking about you! glad to hear all is well with you. wont be long for you either now. 38+5 here. not feeling my best. physically all is fine and i don't have too much anxiety about the birth. just alot of other stresses atm!

will defo let you all know when she arrives. (if she ever does)

OK, another moster update due I reckon.

Glittery Hope you're holding it together OK. Am crossing everything for you and will keep checking back. UnMNty

digital yay for your DH. It means so much to know you've got backup, doesn't it? Know what you mean re innocence - I've two friends who told me of their pgs at about five weeks and I had to really try to put on a delighted face because I know exactly how many things can go wrong.

Hairyfairy that was a good letter, calm and to the point. Hope it brings some results.

Mummybells definitely enjoy the positive interlude - you've completely earned it.

Welcome, waterplate and sorry you find yourself in this situation. FWIW the doom feeling is completely natural and hopefully also completely unnecessary - I felt exactly the same after two mcs in three months, and am now 32 weeks and starting to think I was wrong... At what stage did your mcs happen?

Baubles so sorry your mum wasn't more comforting. My family were the same - I know they meant well but it's maddening. I remember snapping that DS was NOT the answer to this particular problem. I adore him beyond words, but my longing was for ANOTHER baby as well as him.

Lunatic sounds like you've been hugely organised and grasped many nettles. I have yet to write a single card (seem to persist in thinking that once I've bought them I've finished the job...) or bought a tree. You are most impressive if I may say so.

JUlez good to hear from you but really sorry you're so uncomfortable. Hope baba engages soon and gives you a break.

LadyBeen sorry about the BFN. A BFP will come, I know. Get mumatron to put in a cosmic order for you.

LAF I like the word 'viable'. Fingers, toes and eyes crossed for you - and def go for private scan if that's going to save your sanity.

Sorry for anyone I've missed.

Had nice weekend - v sociable, saw several sets of friends, failed to do any of the Christmas things that need to be done but still enjoyed myself v much.

Baby still sideways and I'm not sleeping too well. Really hanging out for start of mat leave and wishing I'd arranged to go more than two weeks before the due date...