Recurrent Buns - Miscarriage Testing and Beyond! Part three..!

[Julezboo]

Not so imaginative as lunatic !

Part One HERE

Part Two HERE

There are a mixture of Pg ladies, new BFP's (YAY) and new ladies who have sadly had to join us and are going through testing. Lots of OMW's and hand holding here!

Sit down, grab a cushion and a hot choc and get comfortable.

LAF, really sorry that you've got more uncertainty to deal with.

But as others have said, I think a hb is a very positive sign, esp if your dates aren't that far out. Did they say anything about the heart rate?

Right catch up time. I did write a message to LAF earlier, which seems to have been eaten by MN, so hopefully this one will stick!

Lady Thank you so much for such a lovely message. I bit the bullet and called my friend last night. Decided that I needed to try and 'be there' for her over the phone if not in person. It wasn't easy and we completely avoided the topic of pregnancy, which I'm guessing was her doing as much as mine. Can't help but feel that it was a touch noble of her. I do feel better for speaking to her, but deep down I know I'll be back in the resentment camp if my scan doesn't bring good news. I know none of this is her fault, but I seem to be directing my rage at her because she doesn't seem to want this as much as I have and do, and it's all been so bloody easy for her. Still, you don't really get loss until you've lost something, do you? Hopefully, as you say, things will get better with time.

Now onto brighter things. How's that LP looking? Hoping and praying that AF remains decidedly absent for you this month. Fingers crossed! I reckon even if it lasts for over 10 days without a BFP straightaway, your body is certainly heading in the right direction to let a little bean implant in there. Good luck. x

hairy Glad the idea of work and getting back to normality is appealing to you. A very good sign in my book, but don't expect to feel miraculously better overnight. Give yourself time and accept that there will be times when things are bloody awful. I think, in some ways, you're right to get back, but very sensible to have reduced hours. A spot of RL can sometimes help to provide a bit of distraction if nothing else. Don't ever doubt that you're fully entitle to feel the way that you do though. We all need to work through it and everyone has different coping mechanisms.

Baubles Indeed you can spot with ovulation, as I discovered for the first time in the month I got pg. I spotted brown/ pink gunk for about 3 days AFTER ovulation has occurred (which I thought was odd, because I'd read it was supposed to coincide with the follicle bursting, but this had already happened to me! ) and then it just completely stopped. I also had implantation bleeding 5 days later, which lasted for 4 days. It's a complete minefield and designed to just totally mess with our head and emotions. How are you doing today? Hope you get that call tomorrow, if you haven't already. No harm in chasing them if you don't receive it btw.

digi I hear you with the whole body hating thing. I waited a year and STILL didn't get back to normal without help so I understand how gruelling it can be. Has the bleeding developed into AF properly now? I hope so, for your sake. There is very little more confusing/ annoying than bizarre spotting when you just want to be back to normal. Hugs.

Lunatic Another post which made me cry a bit. Must be pregnant! It really is such a relief for me to talk to you lovely women and I'm not sure what sort of state I'd be in otherwise, most of the time. Unfortunately, it seems to have made me disregard most of the people I know in RL, but it's also saved me a lot of wasted time talking to them and having it all fall on deaf ears!

Yes, my first thought was Julez and frazzled and it's nowhere near in that league, so I can't complain at all! Thankfully, the spotting pretty much went away as soon as it came, but I must admit I was a wee bit frightened to go to the loo for a few days - like that would prevent a mc!? Go figure! I've had a bit of brown gunk, but nothing that's really worried me since, apart from what looks like snot! Even that hasn't bothered me though, because I remember you describing something very similar in the early days. Sometimes this thread can be very useful in the dark times!

My foot is much better now, thanks. Not quite up to running away from people on ice, but much less weak than it was. Unfortunately, it seems to hurt more in the cold, but I'm not planning to run any marathons - for the next few months at least! - so hopefully it'll be properly mended soon.

Gosh, your poor Mum. It's a wonder any of us continue to do this pregnancy thing at all isn't it? Mind you, awful though it can be, I'm so pleased that you have her and her wealth of experience and understanding to draw from. No wonder you have such a strong bond. It's also wonderful that her eventual outcome was such a positive one. I've said it before but, though I wouldn't wish this sort of experience on my worst enemy, I do envy those who have people close to them who can empathise, but then I have you lot, don't I?

Hope you have a lovely evening tonight.

banana Pleased to hear you sounding so upbeat and positive. Long may it continue.

LAF I'm so sorry you've been left feeling underwhelmed and worried by your scan and I'm very sorry about the whispering. Highly unprofessional regardless of the outcome of your scan.

Still, first of all, congratulations on the hb!!!! That in itself is a brilliant sign and reduces your risk quite significantly.

Secondly, as the other ladies have said and what I also originally said in my first post, do you have any certainty about when you actually ovulated?

Doctors always rely on the LMP, which is largely flawed for just about every woman who doesn't have a textbook 28 day cycle with ovulation on day 14. Just to clarify this point, when I went for my dating scan with DS, I had worked out that I was 10 weeks along, but the scan put me at just over 8 weeks. I was completely baffled by this as, at this point, I didn't have a clue when I ovulated. It's only when I became a complete OMW that I realised that, not only do I have long cycles but I also ovulate very late, so going by my LMP would put me up to 2 weeks ahead.

Unless you're completely certain that ovulation wasn't late, or delayed due to the sheer amount of stress you're under, this sonographer may have put unnecessary concern into your brain. I realise this is little to no comfort as I know you still have a horrible waiting game ahead of you, but try not to catastrophise until your second scan, because there is no way of knowing anything until then. Very easy for me to say, I know. When is your next scan? Have a HTH until then. I'm so sorry that you haven't come away completely relieved as you deserve to be. Hugs.

Waves to lulu, frazzled, Julez, mumatron, Mummy and anyone else I may have missed. I do wonder what happened to sunny? Perhaps she's moved to the Pregnancy thread?

Good Lord how rude of me. Almost forgot! Best of luck for tomorrow Lunatic. Hope everything is nice and straightforward.

Hi everyone,

I have incoming relatives in one week, I am frantically painting, shopping, planning beach trips and christmas dinners etc... panic panic panic

LAF I agree, very bad form whispering. I bet she was telling the nurse that your notes said you had mc's previously, but by trying to be sensitive she managed the exact opposite! Its not very scientific evidence but I have read lots of threads were sonographers dates got modified at the next scan. I am very glad you saw a heartbeat though, that is very good. xxx

Coconuts you would have ovulated between 10-16 days before your period. I like your battling spirit!!

Sorry for not catching up properly with everyone, you are all always in my thoughts xxx

Thank you all for your comments, it has helped to calm me down. I was in tears as I had to go into work, thinking about the scan and the likelihood of a MC or ERPC right before Christmas. We are due to fly to the US on the 23rd and the next scan is on the 21st, so I was imagining horrible results at the next appointment. It has played into all of my fears about lack of morning sickness and something is not right.

I phoned the EPU when I got to work and asked if the mid-wife would have access to this file as I have an appointment on Monday. I spoke with one of the sisters and she said that they were doing the calculations based on my missed period date, which also doesn't make any sense. She also suggested that I ovulated later than expected and I know that isn't correct based on what happened at that time. She did say to me that if I miscarried again in between now and the next appointment that I should collect the embryo and return it to them to send to the Royal Marsden for evaluation. She agreed to post a scan picture to me to take to the midwife.

Regarding my cycle, I was on the pill for a long time, so I was like clockwork and I was regular when I came off the pill, but I did fall pg very quickly, and then had my first MC. The cycles were a bit up and down after that, so it is hard to say.

I wasn't expecting to be pg on the cycle that I did as I had my period whilst we were on holiday, and DH and I weren't up to anything when I came back as we were both struggling to get back on the time zone, so if anything, I would have ovulated earlier, and not later or his sperm were living in my body for an exceptionally long period of time.

I took a pregnancy test almost 4 weeks ago that came back as pg, so to say that i am only at 5 weeks and 5 days, isn't possible. I was also travelling for work too, so again, not possible, during that time frame. I could accept that maybe 1 or even 2 weeks would be OK, but to be developing 3 weeks behind would not be good.

However, maybe as glittery suggests, the sonographer's measurements will change. The only thing I can do is wait. At least I will see the midwife on Monday.

Thanks for all of your support. From TTC to actually being pg, it is a terrifying time when you have had multiple miscarriages. I can't talk to anyone in RL about this and keeping it all inside makes it even worse. xx

LAF Keep hold of the fact that if anything, you are only measuring one week out. And as the others said, you will be more on the 6 week side of things if they saw a hb. Also remember it is very hard to get an accurate measurement at this stage which is why they do the dating scan at 12 weeks.

Mummy Pleased you made it back ok. Jealous of your sunshine and warm weather!

Lunatic Hope things go well today.

I have a consultant appt next Wed at 4:30 for my blood results. I know its highly unlikely to show anything, which will then mean I need to get pregnant again for further tests (chromosomes). So NOT ready to be pregnant and worrying again. I have been spotting or bleeding for nearly 3 months now and just need a break!

Good morning everyone :)

Nice and sunny this morning even though it is still bitterly cold and so dangerously slippy. Got DD off to playschool so nice peaceful morning to myself :)

glittery I did chase them up yesterday evening and apparently the appointment was made online on 26th November even though when I tried to do it all the appointments were booked. So, it's on 5th January. Not long to wait at all.

And I'm good, thanks for asking. These past few days since AF came I have been so much more positive. But it seems to come in waves one minute I'm so relieved things actually do work. Albeit slower than normal but still functioning. And then I sit and think I was a fool for stopping the OPK's and guilty that we didn't DTD on the right day and I could be pg now and it's my fault for not knowing. I drive myself mad sometimes. I over analyse everything. Today I'm positive. :)

Glad your foot is better but you certainly want to be taking it steady on this ice. Its so thick in my area, very dangerous.

mummy Hope you get everything sorted in time for your visitors. Will they be staying over Christmas?

LAF I hope your MW can shed some more light for you an Monday. I still think the dates they use is the wrong way to go about it. Especially if you know when you ovulated, there is such a small window of opportunity, they should go by the date you give them if you know and the LMP if you don't. I expect the whispering was medical jargon to try and teach the student but it still doesn't make you feel any better about it. You have my sympathies :)

Just a quick one, but LAF or anyone have you read this thread?

I read through the whole thing last night, absolutely convinced it was going to end very differently. You always prepare for the worst when pg after mc - but this lady proves you can also hope for the best, and get it.

Yeah frazzled I read it all yesterday and commented. I was so trusting that the medics had it right and that poor lady was in for some bad news. It's terribly concerning to me to read something like that at this stage, but I'm so convinced of my dates, that I think I should hopefully have an answer - good or bad - at my first scan. Still, it's very concerning that babies can grow at such different rates. Makes me horrified that many viable pregnancies may have been terminated needlessly.

Is it just me who thinks it would be unlikely for LAF to see a hb with any clarity before 6 weeks? I'm by no means an expert, but this sounds quite early to me. This is one of the main reasons I requested my scan be put back a week and the ACU seemed pleased I'd made that decision. Horrible that you can do nothing but play the waiting game LAF. It's almost enough to make you want to pay to go private for a second opinion.

Sorry glittery, you're right of course that it's not a heartwarming tale of hope if you're still in that timezone. But given the dates and size, I was SO sure it was all over, and so glad to be wrong.

Before 6 weeks I'd agree, v unlikely. Was scanned with DS at 6+2 and with this one at 6+3 and got hbs, but it was made v clear to me that there was a very good chance we'd see nothing, even if all was well.

What was the CRL, LAF?

I'm not sure, what does CRL mean frazzled ? I wasn't told anything about the rate of the heart beat. I asked if it seemed normal and she said it was a heart beat. I thought that I might actually hear it, but I could only see it. I didn't think that the nurse was very helpful at all. They didn't take a urine sample to measure HCG which happened the first time I went to the EPU.

I'm glad I have a MW appointment in between now and the next scan. I may ask for a private scan based on what she says.

Crown rump length.

Nurse doesn't sound v helpful, no. Although I've been to the EPU about seven times over various pgs, and no-one's ever taken a wee sample or offered to do bloods.

Yay Lunatic, glad you had a good scan.

Will post properly later, just wanted to check in.

Saw MW today, all fine apart from little blighter is transverse, so coming out through catflap if he doesn't turn in time. No idea how concerned I should be about this...

Thank you all for your support. You have been so lovely. I feel much better today. How hard is it for people working the healthcare profession to have an appropriate bedside manner? She could have said, "we think that you are measuring at 5-6 weeks, but as this is an early scan, this may be nothing to worry about as it is hard to get an accurate measurement at this stage?" For someone who has had multiple miscarriages, I think all of us brace ourselves for the worst anyway, but it is easy to feel even more hopeless whilst dildo-cam is inside you and doesn't seem to be telling a good story. To hear whispering as I'm putting on my knickers made it even worse, like she was saying to the student "it doesn't look good, that wasn't a good scan." It may not have been what she said, but that's what I was imagining, as she wouldn't say it audibly.

lunatic glad that you had a good scan and that the dates seem to match up. Are you still having the pain that you mentioned last week? I'm glad that I'm not alone in thinking that ESH can be a bit crap some times.

Thanks for sharing that thread frazzled I'm dumbfounded that such a thing could happen. I guess you have to trust your body and the medical profession is not always right. It has helped me re-gain my confidence after yesterday. Will they try and turn your baby? Is that something that happens these days?

glittery you must be counting down the hours till your scan. Hopefully, I haven't frightened you too much with my woes. I hope that you have a better time of it than me.

thanks lulu for sharing your similar experience. It's good that they didn't seem worried for you, so it may have been the poor bedside manner that sent me over the edge.

baubles I'm glad that you are in a good frame of mind after AF. Have you found anything useful in your book? Have you tried anything like acupuncture before?

banana spotting for 3 months is torture. You have my sympathies. Hopefully, your bloods can tell you something. I know how frustrating it is to not have any answers. Considering that miscarriage affects so many women, it is amazing how hard it is to get specific information related to your personal situation.

mummy glad that you are back in the sunshine and your luggage has arrived. CR sounds like a fascinating place. I haven't spent any time in central America. I studied Spanish, but hardly anyone speaks it in the UK, so I'm very rusty.

hairy I didn't take a day off work when I had my mcs and I think it was the wrong thing to do. I was in denial about the pain I was feeling and it nearly swallowed me up. If you can ease your way back in with a few hours a day or a few days a week, it may help not to overwhelm you. when do you get your full test results back?

digital so sorry to hear that you are feeling low due to your cycle lengths. surely that must give some indication of your hormone levels to your GP for them to offer a solution?

fingers crossed for a BFP lady

julez thinking of you with your MW appt tomorrow. Let us know how you get on.

Waves to anyone else I've missed.

DH badgered the epu again and got me an appointment with the senior registrar for next Wednesday. I wanted to see the consultant. Do you think the senior registrar should be just as good? I want to talk over my history, ask for another set of hormone tests, and ask if I can do the clotting test any earlier than after two periods.

Still only spotting. It's not got heavier. But I feel crampy, either af due or attempting to start building up the lining again. Or god knows.

LAF if at any point you feel like you can't wait for that second scan you can ring up and demand an earlier one - perhaps in a week's time so it's not so close to Christmas.

lunatic glad your appointment went well.

frazzled is it time to start scrubbing the floors yet?

I was talking to a young man in the office today, newlywed. He was very interested in my tales of parenthood. Turns out he's ttc and reckons him and his wife will be the first of their friends and siblings to have a baby. Oh the innocence, I long for those days.

Gosh Laf. I do hope things will be ok. Sending you a big non-mumsnet type HUGT

Digi is right - I did that last time - I phoned up and asked to be seen and they saw me. The doc had said it was a two week wait for early scans, but I ended up phoning them direct, explaining the issue (ie: that I was feeling very nervous due to previous ectopic) and they were fine. I find EPU quite good - very much more 'in tune' with peoples emotions.

Lunatic glad all was well today, that's fantastic news.

Big Wave to everyone.

I'm 100% positive I am ovulating (or have done). TMI alert: EWCM a-plenty and the same dull ache I usually get. I am over the moon about that as I was so petrified I'd never be 'normal' again.

Anyone had the AMH test and is it worth it?

Have asked doc for repeat day 3 and day 21 tests in a letter

"Thank you for organising tests for Thyroid and Renal function, Glucose and blood count. I would also be grateful if it were possible to arrange LH and FSH and Progesterone tests ? these tests were done at my previous surgery in February 2010, however, I feel that after my two miscarriages I would like to know if there have been any changes, particularly at my age.

I believe I have recently ovulated, as I do monitor my cycle, and hope that I will menstruate during the week of the 20th Dec. If it is possible for me to telephone the surgery for day 3 Lutenising Hormone tests during that week I would be very grateful."

Lunatic thanks for your superhero compliments! I am quite proud of myself at the moment, it feels good to be throwing myself into a project, but it has come after almost a year of moping around the house complaining that it is too difficult to raise a 2 year old and recover from an mc I think the sudden activity level is directly related to the fact that I (finally!) feel so positive about my medical issues. Its great to feel I have been "fixed" after such a long time in worry/hope/disapointment mode. I am fully aware that if I get pregnant I will no doubt be back in that same mode - but in the meantime I am enjoying the positivity!
Glad you had a good scan.

LAF Hola! Come and visit anytime, we will put you up! (you have to bring me english tea bags though)We live in the capital, which is not as great as the coast where all the really exotic holidays are to be had, but we still get a steady stream of friends/relatives/friends of friends who stay over a few nights on their way to the beaches. All (who bring teabags) are welcome!

hairy I think the letter is great, follow it up with lots of phone calls/appointments/full on crying, whatever it takes, its worth it. Congrats on ov.

digi sorry I dont know about cons/registrars, but I hope you get answers.

coconuts I still think of you that way, even though you are baubles now Yes, my family are here over xmas. I am doing beach with them, then back for xmas day and a big lunch with my family and DH's, and then me DH and DS will escape to the beach by ourselves when my family fly back on the 28th. Really looking forward to it!

At some point I also have to fit in the removal of my coil and an HSG but xmas is getting in the way and I only want to concentrate on fun things!

Hi ladies, may I join you? I had my second MC last week and am waiting til new year to TTC again but am thinking of asking for GP to do basic tests if possible even though they don't investigate til 3 mcs. I just feel like something is wrong (though that could just be self-pity and moping after two disappointments).

I've read the first part of the first thread and it's so exciting to hear that lunatic is now pg....you've come a long way. Fingers crossed for everyone's tests/ttc/healthy pregnancies.

Morning all,

Welcome waterplate I'm very sorry for your loss. If you feel you would like to be tested and have a sympathetic GP, it's worth asking for some blood tests to be done although you will need to wait until your next cycle. Self pity and moping are all normal so grab yourself a cushion and you will soon be an OMW like the rest of us (thats Obsessive Mad Woman)

I can't offer much practical advice on recurrent miscarriages as I'm here under false pretences. But I'm comfy now so I shall stay. I have had 2 mcs and have just been diagnosed with PCOS. After 6 months with no periods, AF has just arrived and I am waiting for my gynae appointment in early Jan. There are many ladies here who can offer you advice so I shall bow out and wait for someone to come and speak sense to you :)

lunatic Glad you had a positive scan. I know what you mean about the percentages. I always think I'll be the one in the 1% or something. I have got pregnant on the pill before even with my problems so I have an uncanny knack of pulling the short straw!

LAF I have never tried acupuncture before but have always been intrigued by it and by reflexology. Would love to give them a go but I'm not sure whether it is financially viable or whether there are any decent ones in my area. Will look in to it. I have to say I haven't read any more of my book for a week or so I haven't really been in the right frame of mind but I endeavour to read some more and finish it before my appointment in January. (it's very big) Glad you are feeling more positive too. at dildo-cam!!

digi Hope the appointment goes well Weds and you get the tests you want :)

hairy :) for ovulation and i hope they get your tests done too

mummy It is great to think of your success story :) I am very at your Christmas on the beach! This December you have had snow and Sunshine. It talks of more snow here by end of Dec so you left at the right time. I still think of myself as coconuts too :) Baubles is just temporary. You are going to be a busy bee this month. Once your coil is out are you allowed to TTC straight away?

I'm hoping that this AF has set my hormones up to have a decent shot at TTC in the next month or two before the male hormones and androgens take over. Feel like I am starting the TTC path afresh :)

Had a good talk to my mum about it all yesterday for the first time. I don't think she fully grasped how much I want this and she said the dreaded "but you have DD" which I find the killer question. Like TTC#2 is less important or we shouldn't be allowed any more than one baby. But we cleared it up and I think she understands. We talked about my mcs and how it felt and I feel like there is a clean slate there too. Although I still wouldn't trust her not to blab if I got a BFP.

Can't wait for AF to bugger off so I can get the OPKs back out. It's really heavy and clotty now (TMI sorry) and becoming uncomfortable so hope it isn't here for an extended period of time.

Waterplate so sorry you find yourself here, but I know you will get great support here.

I have been battling asking for blood tests since my second MC which was a few weeks ago (2nd this year). I found that the consultants seemed pretty reluctant, but my lovely GP has agreed even though I've had 'only' two. I laboured the point about my age in addition to the mental stress and emotional issues I was having to deal with after my second MC.

I hope you get some luck with getting tests done. I have found researching and letting the doctors know it is affecting your wellbeing to be helpful!

In fact, I have just had my first set of blood tests today

Thrombophilia
SLE Screen
Antinuclear Antibody

So from what I read on the internet this will be the set I had wanted for Hughes Syndrome etc :)

I am really quite relieved. It helps so much to know that they are looking into things, rather than just letting me dangle, and I will have a clearer idea of what the reasons might be.

If they come back clear, I am going to see about any other tests, and then IVF so that hopefully they can select healthy eggs & embys, try that and freeze any 'spares'

I waterplate I am very sorry to hear about your losses. I am another "cheat" on the thread, I have only had one mc, but started getting tests because I had lots of complications followed by no periods for 7 months. I got diagnosed with Ashermans Syndrome and have just had surgery, and I have nearly finished treatment.

If you havent heard of it yet, try and find a copy of Lesley Regans book "Miscarriage - what every woman needs to know" Its very useful to get your head round all the issues so you can make the best of your doctors appointments. I hope you manage to find a sympathetic GP. A couple of things I learned from mine (who was friendly but very firm) is that testing is normally offered if you have been TTC for more than one year with no luck (absurdly, because you got pregnant, you dont qualify!) OR if you have a health problem, i.e. pain, no periods (more than 6 months) or as Hairy said "emotional problems" So dont forget to exaggerate

by the way this was 2 years ago in the UK, I am abroad now and see private doctors in Cost a Rica.

I second what Hairy said about how it makes you feel more in control being proactive and getting thinks looked into, well worth all the hassle.

Coconuts Dr Lower said I can start TTC again after coil is out, but on the advice of the ladies on the AS board I am going to have an HSG first. Sorry your AF is a bit uncomfortable, keep in mind though that long heavy periods are a very good sign that you have a healthy endometrium building up every month - just what I want

Hairy Well done on getting your bloods done and its really good to hear you have a plan!

mummy well I had a drama this morning. Washed DDs coat last night, still wet this morning and ran out of sanitary bits so had to put about four cardigans on her to go to an emergency shop visit! I hope the HSG is successful and you can get back to business :) Believe me it is very comforting to know that it's healthy :)

Hey Ladies,

Sorry I am not around much at the moment, I cant sit upright for too long. My lovely big baby has pushed my ribs outwards, its agony, if i sit up it hurts a lot more so I am spending a lot of time stretched out on the sofa or in bed atm. Physio reckon when he engages it will ease the pressure a little bit.

MW didnt make it today she got held up at a homebirth but she is popping in first thing in the mornign so will update you then :)

Hope everyone else is ok xx