Recurrent Buns - Miscarriage Testing and Beyond! Part three..!

[Julezboo]

Not so imaginative as lunatic !

Part One HERE

Part Two HERE

There are a mixture of Pg ladies, new BFP's (YAY) and new ladies who have sadly had to join us and are going through testing. Lots of OMW's and hand holding here!

Sit down, grab a cushion and a hot choc and get comfortable.

it's about the only thing I am 'normal' with. No that's unfair, last feb my hormones were declared 'normal' too, and I'm deffo not normal for a 42 year old as I got preggo twice in six months.

God People really are thick sometimes, aren't they LF. You strangle my friend and I'll strangle yours .

She also then proceded to go on and on about her two children and what an awkward life she has because she has kids! Fair play, having kids is not easy, but tell it to the hand!!! LOL.

Hugs for frazzled - hormones crashing post pregnancy on top of everything. Good to hear Finn's taking the milk. Hope this helps him gain weight. Lunatic's advice about ds1 sounds very good.
(frivolous purchase - an expensive print and artblock letters for ds' room).

hairy that conversation sounds so familiar. Why do people think they know better than you based on one anecdote?

Coconuts I like hearing stories like that! I keep hearing good things about reflexology too.

lunatic hope you get some answers tomorrow about whether you can be readmitted.

julez hope all's well!

Bit hungover today after celebrating friend's 40th last night. So any thoughts of Jan detox went out the window today. May have to join banana in the booze-free feb as there are too many social events this month.

Not looking forward to going back to work tomorrow - have really enjoyed having two weeks off. Can't wait to do it again, will have to get our May holiday booked soon.

Hoping for some results this week. But not holding my breath. Not sure why my hospital seems to take longer than everywhere else.

Were we at the same fortieth digi

Oh hairy that is so awful that your friend tried to keep on about the aspirin after it was clear that you didn't want to talk about it. I think that people want to show that they care by saying something, but it comes across in a bad way.

Same thing for lunatic friends who say insensitive things that make you feel worse. What is your plan for tomorrow with ESH? Are you going to turn up and take a bed that seems empty?

Granted, I don't know what can be said in these difficult times. That is why I am avoiding certain people. It is only specific situations that send me round the twist. DH can't understand because I was OK with one friend's baby, but not OK about this one and another one in my circle.

My friend that I have avoided for 6 months has now given birth to her baby. I am filled with rage about it, and her situation specifically. She "accidentally" became pg after she found out that we were trying for a family, and her baby is about 6 weeks older than my first would have been. It just feels like a kick in the stomach when an "accidental" pg gets to be in the good statistics and my efforts at TTC get to be in the bad statistics 3 times in a row. I don't know how to face her and I don't want to hold her baby. I don't want to go through the type of convo like hairy had yesterday with someone who has a newborn baby in their arms, who thinks that they are being helpful and end up hurting me.

Hope all is well with Julez

Out of interest, how many of us on the thread on RH-? It would be interesting to know if there are a significant % that have this as an underlying issue. I'm no research doctor though and don't know what it would all mean anyway.

Evening Ladies!

frazzled it sounds like Finn is doing so well, he just needs to learn to eat and gain wiehgt? Same as with my Matthew. Nothing really to look out for tbh. Matthew still reached his milestones at a similar time to full term babies born around the same time. He's still only diddy at aged 8 he wears aged 4-4 clothes and weighs the same as his 3 yr old brother Adam lol! (Although hes a chunky boy like his dad and with Matthew it could be that hes tall and skinny like me!

It is so so hard leaving them at the hospital isnt it? I will warn you though when we did bring him home 29 days later I went a bit OCD wrt to cleaning, hand washing etc. Looking back now I must have driven everyone mad but if it helps you then go for it :)

mumatron we want details!!! Your DD is soooo gorgeous! I hope you are both doing well :)

lunatic I hope you manage to get somewhere with the hospital. It's so much of a let down when they change plans right at the last minute!

banana I agree with LF you will be kicking yourself in a few months time. Oh how I miss my wine!

Hairy its good to "see" you, no advice regarding Day 21 test sorry!

LAF I did write a reply to you at 3am this morning regarding rubella immunity but in my tired state i mustn't have hit post lol! Anyway, I wasnt immune to rubella when I was pg with my youngest and I'm not now either! I am pretty certain it has nothing to do with mc's although thats how I found out through rcmc testing. Might be worth asking around!

digi glad you had a good time last night and hope tomorrow is easy for you!

lady with regards to aspirin, has your cons told you take it from BFP? I was always told by my cons that if a lady has no clotting issues then it can cause issues wrt to mc but I had read a LOT of conflicting views on this from different peoples doctors! Fingers crossed you get somewhere!

lulu Fantastic news about your 12 wk scan! :)

Glittery wow @10 weeks. How are you feeling? Sick, sore boobs?

waves to lovely and mummyabroad

Not much to report here, contractions seem to be stop start whichis v.frustrating. Atm they are coming every 15-18 minutes, hurting, but only because he has his butt wedged in my ribs :(

I am very weepy and exhausted tbh but trying not complain. Despite zero sleep last night and picking up a tummy bug! Also pulled my back yesterday which winded me, still feel a bit knocked sideways today so will be heading up to bed soon. STILL not ready for a new baby in the house though, DH did a lot this weekend but still a fair way to go.

My mum is home Tues from Tenerife so baby has permission to arrive after then. I am hoping for a section date around 26th Jan, IF I can get to 37 weeks I will be happier. Family and friends are already taking bets on when he will arrive, first date being tomorrow Thats my best friend!

Anyway, night all.

LF can update with news from FB if anything should happen. Appt is at 14:15 on Tues!

So sorry I've been rubbish with personal msgs recently. Had a couple of panicky, virtually symptom-free days and having a bit of a freak out. I want a scan now, but I know I'd still need another in 2 weeks to feel remotely positive. I think I'm trying to prepare for the worst which seems both melodramatic and perfectly rational at the same time. Really wish I could just enjoy it. Maybe if I get to 30 weeks.

On my phone so still not able to do proper msgs. Will do my best to do a proper catch up tomorrow, but pleased that the thread seems generally calmer. frazzled you really are doing so well. So pleased to hear Finn is feeding. Everything crossed for you.

hairy nice to 'see' you. You have a 28 day cycle. In a perfect world that means you ovulate on day 14 and should have your progesterone on day 21. Howver, the length of your cycle doesn't matter as much as the fact that you should have the test done 7 days after ovulation. They really should change the name of that test. It confuses doctors just as much as patients!

Waves to everyone else. I am lurking and thinking of you all. X

Okay scrap the calmer comment. Just read hairy's and Lunatic's helpful(?) comments from friends. Sigh! Sometimes I think we should just cry on these people. Why do they insist on trying to advise on topics they know little about on either a practical or emotional level? Why try to counsel a friend who is unfortunately, but quite clearly, an expert on the subject and has obviously explored every avenue in their power to resolve their issues first-hand? Worse still, why ignore this expertise and continue to labour the point when it's so clearly distressing? If in doubt, surely it's best to just shut the hell up?

LAF I really feel for you in that situation. Had a very similar rage towards my SIL who can barely look after the kids she has and keeps popping them out all over the place. I HATED the fact that I had to see her and her baby because she was family. Worse still, I utterly resented the fact that her oblivion made her think that my situation would be improved if I could borrow her baby to hold for a while. I had to employ every ounce of strength not to scream at her that it was MY baby that I longed for and every other baby at the time made me feel like pointing sharp things into the mother's eyeballs if they so much as asked if I wanted a cuddle. My advice would be to stay away. Send a card that congratulates them and maybe include a note that says you're thinking of them but it's a little hard to be around newborns right now. If she's any kind of friend at all, she'll understand and don't feel even remotely worried about her feelings. She'll have a new baby to think about and she'll get over it. Hugs. X

Hi All,

Coconuts - I am feeling all over the place actually! Just had a few bumpy days of Big Talks with DH about whether he really wants a second child We both seem to be taking it turns to get scared and want to back out of the plan. Thankfully talks ended well and we have both re-committed to the idea, scary as it is.

I am still waiting for my doc in London to give me his opinion on my latest scan and I have also written to the best ever AS doctor in the US too, for his opinion. I am on Day 6 of my cycle, so I hope I get answers soon!! I am finding it hard to read about the other ladies with AS on the yahoo group. There are 1099 of them, and reading the daily emails is like russion rulette. One day I will read 3 great stories about people who had the worse cases ever and went on to have twins etc and then next day I will read about people who had surgery with my doctor, got the green light and then had another mc urggg. (before anyone suggests it, I have tried to stop reading but I cant, its simply the best source of info on AS that exists)

mumatron no pressure - but I am dying to hear all about your birth too!

julez Can I bet too? I would say Wed, about an hour after your mum arrives at your house. When I was overdue the midwife told me I wouldnt go into labour until "I had taken care of all the loose ends" She was right, DH was sitting an important exam and I couldnt stop going on about how his timing was awful, an hour after he finished labour started.

Right I have already written too much, so will come back later. Sos that its all be about me big hugs and a kiss for all the lurkers too knackered/stressed/busy to catch up! X

Sorry julez I just read back and think my post to you sounded a bit flippant . Hope your little one arrives exactly when you want them to, no sooner and no later, and I hope you are feeling better soon. much love xxx

DH has had SA results over the phone: low volume and abnormal forms. They wouldn't go into specifics as they want to do another one in 6 weeks time to compare. Apparently it could still all be fine in the next one. They didn't say whether these 'abnormal forms' could contribute to me miscarrying either. So he's going to call back and ask.

Bit about it. Wasn't expecting abnormal results what with us managing to get 3 bfps within 12 months. I was always told that low sperm count and quality only affected ability to conceive. Anyone have any experience of low sperm quality contributing to miscarriages?

Also wondering if this means the only way to guarantee a successful pregnancy would be to do expensive IVF/IUI type treatment.

What can DH do to improve his sperm? He's already taking zinc tablets. Does he need to completely lay off booze and caffeine too?

Sorry for me me me. Just wasn't expecting that.

Hi Digi sorry I dont know whether sperm quality affects mc rate, but I have read that sperm count and quality can be improved in a matter of weeks/months with diet and lifestyle changes. (Yes, cut out the booze and coffee, wear loose fitting underwear, no hot showers or baths) Because new sperm is produced daily, changes to the quality/count happen all the time, so it would be a good idea to do several repeat tests after lifestyle changes and only go by the latest information. Basically, I think there is a lot you can try before you have to consider IVF/IUI. Hope someone else has more info for you soon xxx

Urgh, first bit of googling (really shouldn't be doing this on my first day back at work) shows that there does seem to be a correlation to poor sperm quality and recurrent miscarriage.

I suppose we can at least make some lifestyle changes. Poor DH, all along we thought it was me...but now he'll feel the pressure even more.

This probably means having to limit SWI to every other day now...and apparently morning SWI is more effective, which is nigh impossible with DS hopping into our bed anytime from 4am.

Shit.

I have just had a response from my email to the best AS surgeon in the whole world. He said he knows and respects my doctor in London but disagrees with this follow up treatment protocols - the use of coil and letting me TTC with no further HSG to prove cure. He suggests HSG and mid cycle scan to check growth of lining.

I knew he was going to say this. (because I know the protocols that every single AS doctor uses because I have looked them all up and spoken to other women treated by them!) but I still feel a bit - especially as we had unprotected sex last night!

Still havent heard back from my doc in London again, I asked him to confirm that in his view it is definitely alright to TTC without the HSG (as he said after the op)

I am not going to have any nails left at this rate

Digitalgirl I have had 3 doctors tell me not to worry about DH's sperm. I wanted to have it tested but they said if it was "bad sperm" I would not be getting pregnant. Even the fertility clinic I called told me NOT to get his sperm tested as it probably has nothing to do with my miscarrying.

digital my dp's sa analysis was the same. An there is a theory held by some doctors that it has an effect on miscarriage. i dont have time to post now but will be back after school run in the morning. don't despair though, i obviously proved them wrong!!

Digi and mummyA :(

any sign of Lunatic ?

I got a GP appointment today, and he was lovely. So very, very lovely. He is doing day 21 test on Thursday, and I'm seeing consultant Tuesday so will ask about various other things

He says that he gets my 'panic' about my age but that I have got pregnant twice in six months, which is exceptional going at my age, and that it could very, very well just be bad luck. He reckons most women miscarry and it's a normal thing to happen - even if they don't always know they've miscarried.

I posted this on my facebook yesterday, and it's made me feel better.

lovely video but very emotional if you are experiencing problems

"This inspirational woman speaks so eloquently of how it feels to live with the uncertainty of infertility or multiple miscarriage, or any loss of that kind.

We lost two pregnancies during the last six months of 2010, one very early and one a...t 10 weeks, after seeing a heartbeat on a scan.

"I am posting this for two reasons. Firstly if more of us share our stories with others, then those going thorugh it will feel that they are not the 'only one'.

Secondly if you have not experienced this kind of loss, I hope you will find some understanding of what it feels like, so that you can help your women friends who have or who may in the future.

We do not want your baby
We do not want your pregnancy
We do not want to 'get pregnant' - we want to carry a healthy, happy baby to term and beyond, and have a child of our own who grows into a fulfilled adult.
I am not sad because you are having a baby, or because you have a baby, I am delighted for you. I would just like my own, and those things are seperate.
I have done a whole load of research, seen a whole load of specialists and had a whole load of tests, so I don't want to be asked if I've heard of this or that intervention.
I do not want to hear 'have you thought of adoption'. Of course I have. And it's just as hard as trying for a baby of your own, if not harder.
I am ' too old for IVF on the NHS' - the reason I have not gone for IVF yet is that it is invasive, difficult and expensive.
No-one has a chrystal ball - not even medical specialists - so it is not helpful to say 'don't worry it'll happen again' or 'next time it will be ok'.

This statement helps me to get some of the grief I've been feeling out of my system.

Thank you to everyone who has supported me and shared their own story with me.

Can I rejoin you all please? I posted a little after my third mc in the summer but then had a mn break while we waited for the foetus test results and have now got an appointment for the recrrent mc clinic at the Royal Free.

Going to read through properly but a quick scan and I saw about mumatrons DD - congratulations, we were on the due in December thread together and I'm so pleased to see your news.

Wow Hairy that is an amazing facebook post. I'll be interested to hear what sort of response you get. TBH I've just stayed off facebook completely since my first MC, I wasn't a great user of it anyway and I prefer if someone is going to tell me about a pregnancy that they do it face to face or in a personal email.

There's a lot of worry and concern on this thread at the moment. Sorry I can't do individual responses tonight but I just wanted to give you all a huge squeeze.

I especially hope that LF's silence means that when she called the MW she was called back and told to go in and is now trying to connect. .

I've had some success badgering various secretaries and have got an appt with consultant on Wednesday this week. I was so stressed about it all this morning my hand was shaking eating my toast - DH commented on it and I just about ate his head for breakfast too .

Ah, it took me so long to read/write I missed LF will come back and read catch up later.

I've just booked myself an HSG for Thursday, its the earlies I could get, I will be CD13 then - not ideal, because if I get the all clear I might miss ov time! Now I have to run around and get someone to give me some antibiotics..arrrrgggghh!

I'm feeling as sweaty and shakey as LadyB!

Hello Clare hope you dont have to wait to long for that appointment.

Hairy that is a great statement. Some days I could do with wearing that on a badge so I wouldnt keep having to explain myself! I couldnt get your link to the video to work though.

Hey Lunatic hope things are looking up xxx

So my plan to catch up has been somewhat trodden upon by my insensitive mother, who helpfully told me today that it was irrational to panic about this pg and that everything happens for a reason. She then, again helpfully, told me that if something should go wrong, I should console myself with the knowledge that nature knows what it's doing and it would always be for the best. So the past 2 years of utter hell have been for the best, have they? I tried to explain that miscarriage is hard enough, but the prospect of dealing with infertility again as a result is a bit too much for me to bear right now. She told me that it would be most unlikely. Well phew! If my Mum says so, then it has to be true.

I'm really trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I am pregnant - hormonal and irrational and easily upset, but I fail to see how her telling me this is remotely understanding. I agreed with her that I was irrational, because it's such an emotional thing, but surely that is my right at this stage? Is it so hard for her to just give me a hug? I'm not asking her to understand or fix anything, as she clearly has no comprehension of how wretched this has, and is still, making me feel. Just thought she could maybe humour me a bit. It would be really nice to be able to talk to my Mum right now and I'm almost beginning to wish I'd not told her my news and dealt with my fear alone. I'm so angry that she's made me feel stupid for being worried. Am I being totally oversensitive about this?

Grrrrr me, me, me. Sorry!