Recurrent Buns - Miscarriage Testing and Beyond! Part three..!

[Julezboo]

Not so imaginative as lunatic !

Part One HERE

Part Two HERE

There are a mixture of Pg ladies, new BFP's (YAY) and new ladies who have sadly had to join us and are going through testing. Lots of OMW's and hand holding here!

Sit down, grab a cushion and a hot choc and get comfortable.

Pressed post too soon

LAF There was plently of advice in the book of things I can do. A low GI diet will help, Agnus Castus, the Pill (but obv not an option when TTC) acupuncture, reflexology, and just generally losing weight and being healthy. i'm trying to cut out heavy carbs such as bread and potatoes but I am a carb fiend so it will be a gradual change for me. I don't want to rush into taking any herbal supplements as I don't want them to change anything in my body before I go to hospital in case they want to run bloods and it doesn't give a true reading. Hope you have a safe trip :)

glittery IKWYM, I wish I still had that ignorance of get pregnant, pop out a baby. And it is so hard everytime I hear someone else is pregnant not to shout out "it might not end in a baby you know, bad things happen" but I refrain and let then continue in their ignorant bliss. Still really pleased for you :)

banana hope the consultant goes well tonight and they shed some light on this continuous bleeding. I second digi's suggestion as possibly endometriosis?

digi these things happen when you least expect them so I have a feeling AF might not come for you Don't be about the drunken sex, we've all been there :)

morning all (well it is on this side of the world )

I have finally risen from my pit, had a bath and put some clothes on, starting to feel much better. Thanks for all the well wishes. I actually know how I got the virus, I helped organise a Christmas party for the kids at the local orphanage and I was told that some of the absent kids had it. Poor lambs, they are all under 5! and this thing had me lain out flat for three days! Thank god DS, who was also at the party, didnt get it!

JingleJulez washing baby clothes is a big landmark dont forget to do lots of resting along with that nesting xx

digi great news that you are ovulating DH and I had a month of SWI against doctors orders too, I understand how nerve wracking it is and also how strong your instinct is to just try again at every possible opportunity. I would also agree you deserve a relaxing drink, but that would obviously increase your chances of having unprotected sex again!

banana I totally understand how frustrating it is to not know what is going on. I'm glad you dont have to wait too long for your next bit of information. Has anyone mentioned fibroids to you? They cause mid cycle spotting. These can grow inside or outside the uterus and are treated with a hysteroscopy (inside) or laparoscopy (outside) but you should make sure that the doctor doing it has a lot of experience (not just any old gynecologist) and follows all the protocols for preventing scarring as in AS treatment. (i.e. use of a stent/coil and high dose HRT, NO lasers) Dr Lower is an expert in the treatment of fibroids and AS.

Lunatic if you are admitted, I hope you do get the USB sorted! We will miss you and be worrying about how you are getting along!

baubles glad you found the book helpful. You will be a total expert by the time of your next appointment! Why not ask them to draw a picture? Sounds like a great way to understand whats going on.

Good afternoon mummy

Right ladies,

I have written my history and questions for gynae. I will C&P them here. Could you give them a read and tell me if you think it is ok or if you would recommend asking anything else?

Thanks xx

__

? Diagnosed with PCOS on 9th November. Internal scan. Also trying to conceive. Period absent for 6 months and started on 6th December.
History
? Pregnant at 18 in 2005, miscarriage at approx 12 weeks (LMP 8/10/05... mc on 31/12/05)
? October/November 2006 diagnosed with PID, treated with AB?s
? Still suffering symptoms Jan 2007
? Referred to gynae
? Laparoscopy offered, suspected endometriosis
? Fell pregnant March 2007
? Missed Micarriage at 10 weeks, foetus measuring 7 weeks.
? ERPC April 2007
? Fell pregnant June 2007.
? Had baby 10th April 2008, she is now almost three.
? Laparoscopy never done as was pregnant when the appointment came through.
? On Cilest after giving birth until February 2010, when started trying to conceive
? Periods this year ? 8th to 14th May and 19th to 24th June
? See GP for routine bloods August 2010, all normal (I have the copy of these)
? More bloods October 2010, all normal
? Sexual health screening done also in October, all clear
? Scan 9th Novemeber, reveals PCOS
? Follow up GP appointment 2 weeks later, referred here.
? I also have a bi-cornuate uterus
? For the last year my skin has worsened, and my legs and breasts are becoming hairier than before.
? Always tired and low.
Questions
? Definitely PCOS? Based on my history do you think anything else is apparent?
? Would the laparoscopy offered 3 years ago be a good idea?
? Has the Bi-cornuate uterus had any bearing on my problems to date? How separated is my uterus? Diagram?
? Do any more bloods/scans need to be done? Do these need to be done at a perticular time in my cycle? Almost impossible due to the irregulartity of my periods.
? What treatment would you recommend for my PCOS?
? How long would any treatment continue bofore a review?
? Would any treatment be offered to help with conception? Metformin? Clomid?

TIA xx

That looks great coconuts

The only bit I would query is the line

"Scan 9th November reveals PCOS" shouldnt that be PCO?

Brilliant list though, you are armed and ready!

I'm not sure that it should mummy

The sonographer told me PCOS and when I went ofr my follow up the GP said PCOD. So it looks like I have the syndrome/disease not just the dodgy ovaries. now!

They did mention fibroids to me Digital and Mummy, but it is so small they said it should not interfere with anything, i.e. getting or staying pregnant. I will speak to consultant tonight about it, doubt I can have anything done until I am back from the States now anyway. Sigh. Will update later.

ooops sorry I have muddied the waters!

As I understand it:

PCO means Polycystic Ovaries - I had this once, small bumps are visible on the ovaries on the scan. You can have these bumps without necessarily having the syndrome, mine were temporary and went away (probably caused by a post natal overactive thyroid, and stalled periods) My blood tests showed normal hormones (apart from thyroid) and therefore no PCOS.

I guess to be diagnosed with the syndrome you need to have a collection of symptoms, which can include PCO (especially if it is seem regularly). So if your doctor saw PCO on the scan and puts that together with the other information from bloods tests and your history of irregular periods etc then you have your diagnosis of PCOS.

Obviously go with what the doctors have told you though, not me! - I just thought it might be a typo.

I have never heard of PCOD, I guess its another name for PCOS?

Hi all
How are you all ?? any body having any luck would be good to hear some good news:)

Put the tree up this weekend so feeling all christmassy coz they dont celebrate xmas where i live so everyone will probly think iv opened a bar or cafe when they see all my lights haha!

Had no luck this month again :( came on yesturday so its now about 8 months that i havnt had no luck with gettin pregnant how do you stop thinking about it and just try relax any one no of n e thing to good to think about apart from babys ? idont think i can go 1 day without worrying about it im totally freaking out that its not happning but i keep telling myself lots of people have trouble gettin pregant ! wasthinking of going on vitmains some people say that help? anyone know about them ?

How has eveyone else been ?
take care
Just mee xx

you haven't muddied the waters at all :) I value your input more than my GP

Well I always believed that it was only PCOS if you had the collection of other symptoms to go with it which I have kind of developed over the last year. I'm noticing hair where I shouldn't have it (around my nipples) or darker and thicker where it should be thin (on the bottom of my shins), my skin is terrible now, my weight loss seems to have stopped and I've hit the wall. I don't know whether that is normal for weight loss or specific to PCO(S). I'm tired all the darn time and have constant mood swings. If you remember, the FSH and LH levels weren't normal when compared and the doctor said to me "looking at the blood results alongside the scan it looks like PCOD" so I presume that's that.

justmee there are many things you can do. Eating healthily, no alcohol, cut down on caffeine, take folic acid and a pregnancy supplement. It's called pregnacare here in England. You can use the OPK's to check your ovulation and also chart your body temperature. Did you have any luck translating your test results as I suggested?

iv quite smoking 4 weeks now :D dont drink coffee anyway eating heatly i could probly do abit more taking folic acid and thats the other thing i was told about pregnacare ill go into chemist tomorrow and ask about that what does it do ??? i have bought some opks been using them about 2 months now i did chart but i gave up so i think im gonna chat and okp at same time as i havnt done them together :) thanks for tht

i havnt had them tranlslated my partner says well go to the doctor give a couple of month and if nothing happens then well go back and ill also ask my docotr more about them then and also this tme i will take a list of questions because as soon as i get in there i go all paniky and my brain goes blank doesnt take a lot to do that to my brain haha.!

How are you anyways?? hope your ok
xxx

lovelybunch my septate is half way down my uterus. Consultant has told me that the chances of my 7mc's being caused by blood clottingf disorder is slim and because I have had so many its to do with the embryo implanting on the septate and not getting the blood supply it needs. All bar one of my mc's were before 6/7 weeks. So failing to get to heartbeat point, despite me taking clexane/aspirin in my most recent two mc's.

They have also said it was the cause of my waters leaking with DS2 from 30 weeks and had DS1 not been born at 31 weeks due to pre-eclampsia the same thing probably would have happened. Quite scary given I am 31 weeks now lol!

With the clotting disorder they are pretty much focusing that on the blood pressure/placenta side of things. I was extremely poorly after my DS1 was born, I had GA for emcs at 31+6 because they couldnt get BP down and after he was born I had an eclamptic fit and didnt wake up for 10/11 days, its alla bit blurry for me tbh, but doctors came round the day after section and couldnt rouse me, my reflexes were working down my right side, so they sent me for MRI's scans which showed swelling on my brain (caused my fit) which led to a mini stroke. I was moved to ICU in a neurology centre where I had more MRI scans and lumberpunctures which gave the final conclusion that IF I woke up I would never walk again. My family was called in from around the country to say their goodbyes :( 6 days later I woke up in the middle of the night to find my dad sitting next to me looking at bungalows in the papers bless him. :)

Swelling came down quickly after that, they did an MRI scan and inserted a needle in my spine to release the fluid pressure and I was up and about when DS1 was 9 days old and finally got to see him when he was 10 days old. Miracously my BP was taken before I saw him and it was still pretty high 160/95 and they took it again once Id spent an hour with my boy and it was 98/55 (which is normal for me!)

I still have some mild weakness on my right side and had to learn to walk and do things for myself again but I am fine now. DS2's pregnancy was less scary, leaky waters, lots of growth scans and a leathery baby born at 38 weeks. But I had fragmin with him and not with DS1! So I think the clexane does wonders for my health rather than babies :)

Oh my gosh julez that is such a scary thing to happen. Thanks for sharing that with me. You have so many things against you. I can't believe they thought you would die and kudos to you for waking up! I knew pre-eclampsia was dangerous but I have never "known" anyone who has suffered such serious effects of it. How long ago did this happen? how old is your DS1 now?

justmee well done for quitting the fags it's hard I quit 3 years ago and never looked back. If you chart you can plot your temperatures onto fertility friend and they give you hints of when it looks like you should ovulate or get AF. I don't chart or use OPKs as it is unreliable with PCOS but I am doing an experiment when AF finishes and using OPKs religiously :) I'm not sure what exactly is in Pregnacare but all the good vitamins and minerals like folic acid, iron and vit B12. you can buy one for conception and one for preganancy. Have you got this book?

DS1 is a delightful 8 year old now has has minor problems because of how early he was. He suffered severely with his chest in the first two years, now has dyspraxia and development delay. He weighed 2lb 12 when he was born and he now weighs just under 3 stone. Weighs exactly the same as my chunky 3 year old DS2!

Good news about DS3 is he weighed 2lb 12 at my 27 week scan!

Gosh Julez thank goodness you were ok! I am

Wave to everyone. No news here except I went in to the office for the first time today, and it was fine, I enjoyed having some work to do and it was nice to see my colleagues again after so long!

I have POAs and it has come out negative, as I suspected. (although I was holding out a little teeny bit of hope, even though the acupuncturist has advised I wait three months).

julez I know you've told me your story before, but it still shocks me everytime. Nesting is v good, and amazing that ds3 is already weighing same as ds1's birth weight.

baubles pcod maybe d is for disorder? There are a couple of pcos experts on the conception board - Attila is one that springs to mind - that could probably answer a lot of your questions about tests.
Feeling low and exhausted may also point to an underactive thyroid so you should pester for that to be tested.

justmee well done on giving up the fags, you never know this might do the trick .

hairy sorry for bfn. Haven't you only just ovulated? You'd only be 5 dpo or thereabouts? Bur bfn's are rubbish regardless of dpo.

I'm not yet convinced an egg has hatched, body has fooled me before. I'm waiting to see what temps do over the next few days - don't trust this morning's reading as it was after a lot of alcohol so was very hot anyway.

Counselling session this afternoon was actually so much better than last time, I came away feeling like it was much more productive. And she really boosted my confidence about having my list of prepared q's for my appointment tomorrow. Such a massive difference to how I felt last time. She didn't even tut at my drunken mishap last night! I am aware that this is now the third time this has happened since the mc - but the first time it's happened after seeing ewcm. I honestly cant see how we're going to behave ourselves for another cycle if the doc tomorrow refuses to do this test any sooner.

Julez your birth story with DS1 is shocking! You have come so far and are truely an inspiration to me who has not had nearly the rough ride as you have. How is the 5 year age difference between your DS? I fear we are headed that way even though DD is only 2. I was 4 years apart from my sister and my mom says it was the best age gap.

Baubles When I saw my consultant last night I asked about PCOS (because I am paranoid). He said you have to meet 2 of 3 criteria to be diagnosed with PCOS: 1- scan showing polycystic ovaries 2- high levels of androgens in your blood 3- lack of or irregular periods.
From that I would guess you have PCOS as you meet 2 of the 3, but still worth questioning your consultant about it.

Digital pleased you had a good counselling session. It's nice when something you try works!

Hairy Sorry about your BFN. Fingers crossed for a sticky bean next month.

Well I am offically confused. Apparently, the growth is still there, on the lining of my uterus, but has shrunk so unlikely a fibroid. HCG test showed my levels at 185 meaning they have halved in 2 weeks. Scan confirms ovulation, consultant is dumbfounded at how I ovulated and had a period with that level of HCG. Verdict is it is retained tissue. Since I am going away next week for Xmas we are leaving it, I will have a scan and blood test when I get back and then dependent on the results,I will have a hystoscopy (SP?) to see exactly what it is and remove it.

julez bet your DS's are adorable. And 3 boys you'll have. :) I think that is lovely :) and am still at your experience. I feel I need to stop moaning now!

hairy sorry for your BFN, but it is probably a little early to test. Glad you managed ok at work :)

digi Glad you are having positive counselling. :) Yes I did consider the D was for disorder. I have posted on conception, with a C&P of my history, hopefully Attila will see it. I have chatted to her about things on another thread before. she is superwoman regarding PCOS

banana I don't know if the androgens have ever been tested. Something to ask. Have you got any of the symptoms? at you dumbfounding the professionals!! Hopefully it reduces on its own and you don't need the hysteroscopy.

Nothing new to report here :) Hope everyone is well. Waves to glittery mummy lunatic frazzled justmee lady and anyone else xxx

Just had registrar appointment. So pleased we pushed for it. Doctor was very lovely, very thorough and completely up to date with my history. She asked me all the questions I was hoping she would. And AND I've just had my clotting tests done!!!!! So so pleased!!!!!

No results on karyotyping yet but not too worried about that.
If anything comes up with the clotting tests then I've got another form to get a full thrombophilia screening at UCH.

No need to do further hormone tests although they will do them if I want. I checked my LH vs FSH and that was fine. She says that I'm probably on the very tail end of the pcos spectrum, where I've got pco and slightly longer than normal cycles but no other hormone problems that affect me conceiving. Stressed that pcos does not cause miscarriages, only hinders conception. So clomid will not do anything to prevent a miscarriage.

DH is having a sperm analysis anyway to rule anything on his side out. (his dad had him at 53 so if sperm quality can be hereditary dh should be fine).

And she reckons that given my individual circumstances (normal pg and delivery with ds, normal hormones/liver/kidney function, healthy bmi, young, non smoker) that we've been terribly unlucky and had three cases of bad sperm/egg conceptions, and the next pregnancy should be fine.

V happy for the first time in ages. Especially because I've had my tests done. Bring on the next cycle! (well bring on the results that give me the all-clear, then bring on the next cycle).

banana it is indeed v strange that you've ovulated and had a period with hcg still in your system. Hopefully this qualifies you for lots of special attention.

Banana hope it gets sorted . Isn't it odd being a medical anomoly! and yes, lets hope it means they will treat you extra specially and do things/tests/stuff that need to be done ultra-quick for you!

Glad you got your registrar appointment - isn't it a shame we always have to push for it though digi.

And YAY for the clotting tests. I know two of mine were ready on Monday but they are going to look at them all together when they are all in and I am hoping to see GP tomorrow.

Seems odd to say it, but I hope it is a case of terrible luck and that next time is very straightforward ("they" have told me the same).

Banana I am very very concerned for you that they are suggesting a hysteroscopy without really knowing what it is that needs removing. Alarm bells go off for me now everytime I hear a doctor say they dont understand the problem but have a plan for treating it!

Hysteroscopy is the same procedure that I have just had with Dr Lower and it is extrememly important that the person doing this procedure has lots of experience and uses protocols to ensure that no more damage is done. Sorry if this sounds like scare mongering but on the yahoo group for AS I am reading hundreds of womens stories every day and I cant tell you how many women have sad stories about having treatment with the wrong person and ending up in a worse position that when they started. Its so important to see an A list professional the first time you have surgery of this kind. So many of the stories show women who have had multiple surgeries and multiple miscarriages only to finally receive good care when they go to an A list doctor who uses the correct protocols. I really urge you to sign up to this group (via www.ashermans.org) and have a read of some of the files that are archived there which tell you about what the correct protocols are.

As a minumum you should ask the doctor who is doing this surgery: how many similar surgeries have they done in the last year? (you want someone who specialises in ONLY this type of surgery, who does minumum one a month) Of the women they have operated on how many go on to have successful pregnancies afterwards? If the results arent good, steer well clear!

Have they said anything about whether they will use laser or microscissors (you want the later) what follow up precauations will be taken against scar tissue forming or getting an infection? (you want a stent/coil and high dose HRT, ultrasound guided operation and IV antibiotics during the procedure)

If you are still in the states you have access to some of the best uterine surgeons in the world. The very best is Dr March in Los Angeles who you can email and get free advice from. If you want a telephone consultation and for him to review your scans the charge is $300. His contact details are [email protected] (310) 828-4008

Please dont rush into the hysteroscopy without doing as much background checking as you can. I am so glad I did, terrifying as it all was at the time.

Once again, sorry for scaring you, but I hope I am scaring you enough to make sure you get the right person for the job. Love Mummy xxxx

Thanks Mummy. I can say I truly trust my gynae. I am also pretty certain it is retained tissue as I still have HCG levels in my system. I am due a period before seeing him again so it may just come away on its own. It had shrunk from 2.2cm to 1.6cm in 2 weeks and AF, so fingers crossed I don't even need to go down the hysteroscopy route. My dr HAS already promised me ultrasound guidance next time anyway (if there is a next time, with ERPC). Off to see my other gynae now for blood clotting results!

Hello - going to try to squeeze a catch up in while DS is still asleep but not sure how long that will last

glittery I am so thrilled for you that the scan showed a heartbeat, and that they showed you a few puddles of blood - I hope that helps to reassure you should you see any blood coming away.

jules you're sounding reasonably chipper, even if the pressure is uncomfortable and reflux & sickness still hanging about. And well done about the clear GTT.

mumatron - amazing to see you so far progressed. Sorry that you've got lots of stresses but am pleased that they're not related to the birth or baby.

stillfrazzled you too, seems amazing to me to hear you say things like 32 weeks. I also seem to suffer from the same misconception regarding christmas cards. Still if I start writing tonight and post tomorrow we might be ok . I'd definitely take more than two weeks off before due date - at the very least use some holiday to reduce the numbers of days per week you work before going off (think of it as a gradual handover).

Hairy I agree with the others, the consultant probably looked at the most recent thing on your file and went 'well, at least we don't have to worry about that'. Didn't stop to think much past it. 18th Jan will arrive before you know it.

MummyBells I hope you're starting to recover properly from the D&V - how miserable.

LAF glad you seem to have come to some equilibrium after the scan worry - and the time is passing now so that second one is getting closer. I have everything crossed that you see the growth you want to see. Also, excellent news re: bra-busting boobs

LunaticFringe I'm not surprised you are needing to 'let out' some of the stress subconsciously in your dreams. Poor DH though, that must have been a sudden awakening.

banana87 your situation is so odd. I hope you're finding that at least the care is helping to cope with the unknowing-ness of it all. Must be very hard. Will be interested to hear how you get on with the blood-clotting results. Good luck!

digitalgirl I'd go with guilt-free boozing AND the guilt-free SWISFFing. Then you cover all the bases. Have fun, and might get lucky. What's wrong with that? Glad that the registrar appt today was so positive, but I'm a bit confused about her saying PCOS doesn't cause miscarriages as my consultant said it more likely to my PCOS than Leiden Factor V to cause mine. . This all goes to make me feel more and more that you need to question and research these things yourself, but it's a bit depressing that such different advice can be given out.
But great that you've had the tests done. Do you know when a follow-up will happen?

lovelybunch I think that history looks very comprehensive and I hope you find the consultation helpful. I'll be really interested to hear what they say.

HairyFairyLights well done on getting back into work a little but I'm really sorry about the BFN. I know what that 'little bit of hope' being squashed feels like and it's never pleasant.

I've been very down the last few days - those who spot me on other threads will know that I've been indulging in a bit crazy woman activity and also had a severe case of the weeps. Still, this time of the year was always going to be difficult, looking back at two failed pregnancies and not much in the way of happy news. I'm just trying to get through the festive season without too much stress and hassle and hoping for a more positive (in every sense of the word) New Year.

So...will any of 'our' babies be early Christmas Presents do you think?

Hi lady Yes I shall be interested to see what they say. Hopefully I can come away with some new information and hopefully an action plan regarding TTC.

Sorry to hear you've been feeling down I did see you and wave on another thread in behaviour :)

I also second what you have said to digi. My PCOS book said that women with PCOS have a higher risk of miscarriage. It is such a shame that the professionals can't all concur on the facts and that we have to reach out to books and the internet to corroborate stories and anecdotes.

Just having a quick MN sesh while DD watches ITNG before cooking dinner :)

Hello, quick post from me. I started lightly spotting on my work trip last night and completely freaked out with thoughts of miscarrying away from home. Spotting appears to have stopped over the last 6 hours, but EPU has agreed to see me tomorrow to see what is going on. She did point out some residual blood in my womb so I hope that it is just that working it's way out. However, due to my history, spotting means bleeding means miscarriage and I don't want to be on tenterhooks for days. I am quietly optimistic that it won't be the end of this pg, but say a little prayer for me and my baby.

laf i'm sure all will be fine. will keep everything crossed for you.