Silent Miscarriage

[hairytriangle]

my baby has no heartbeat. It was picked up on a ten week (private) scan yesterday.

I have been to hospital today and they have said they won't re-scan me and that I can:

1. Wait to miscarry
2. Have tablets to miscarry (but they won't scan me first)
3. Have surgery to evacuate

What would you do?

I am totally devastated and I don't know what to do. I would take the tablets but they won't re-scan me and I know that I would beat myself up if I did it without knowing for sure (ie: confirmation that there is definately no heartbeat).

If they would look at the fetus to see what was wrong (if anything) then I would have surgery - but they won't as it's only my second MC (this year ) :(
Thanks.

hairy I just saw this on the MC thread - am so sorry.

I've had 3 MMCs; 1 and 3 I had ERPC, 2 was a NatMC. All babies around the 9-12 week size.

I know there have been some stories about mistakes at scans; and after my first one as I had the ERPC only 2 days later, I did have a few horrible thoughts that it had all been a terrible mistake and I had "aborted" a healthy baby. BUT I know at that scan they looked for ages to find a heartbeat, as baby was close to the size expected (had died a few days before), and the sonographer got a colleague in to double check (not sure if this is standard at Kings).

The ERPC is fine. Nat MC was also ok, and my cycle definitely got back to normal more quickly. Personally I wouldn't take the medical route (just on advice I have read here and elsewhere).

What I did with MMC3 was give it ten days to MC naturally, and then booked an ERPC (had started to spot in the meantime). Maybe this would give you more reassurance?

I'm so sorry you are going through such a hard time again. It's truly shit I know. :(

Oh hairy I am so very sorry to read this. Both my MC were natural, and both in the last 11 months. I know how shit they are.

2nd was at 10 weeks, I choose to go the natural route and it took 10 days from them telling me there was no HB to the MC starting. It wasn't pleasant, I was shocked at the amount of blood and the length of time it took to finish as well.

I am so very sorry you are going through this again. xx

Hairy I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this again

Everything must feel so sudden as you've only just been to the hospital today - it might be worth waiting like Jollster says, to give yourself a chance to MC naturally, and also just to take it all in.

I've experienced both natural and ERPC, and both are fine, I guess for me ERPC was easier as I just wanted to move on at that point. But it was easier to do that after waiting a bit.

So sorry.

Im so sorry for your loss, in my first pregnancy i went for a scan at nine weeks and the baby had no heartbeat and measured only six weeks, i was crushed but i knew straight away i wanted surgery i thought that if the baby had died three weeks ago and i hadnt m|c nat then i didnt want to wait any longer. The ERPC was as ok as it could be and my body returned back to normal and on my 2nd post ERPC period i got pg and had no problems carryed to term and have my wounderfull dd. Yesterday i had my 2nd mc end in an ERPC again (blighted ovum) and im recovering well again i didnt want to sit it out and wait i had known for two weeks that the scan were not able to pick up a baby but i had to go through the motions of having repeat scans. I think ERPC in someways is an easier to deal with route only because your in control when its over.( i think that the emotional sides of nat mc, medical or surgical
interventions are all the same)

im so sorry again and hope you come to a decision like jollster says think about booking an erpc in a week ot two and see what happens you may feel different then.

I had this at about 8 - 10 weeks. I chose to wait and see if I would miscarry naturally but I didn't so ended up with the tablets. I was taken to be double checked at the time and given an internal scan the day I went in for the tablets.
WRT them not scanning you, I don't know what to suggest. Could you ask them if they would be willing to re-scan you if nothing happens in (say) 2 weeks?
However this pans out, good luck to you.

Oh hairy, I'm so sorry you're having to go through this again.

I think it's shocking that the NHS won't scan you, given it was discovered at a private scan. It's easier said than done, but I really would push for that extra scan - like twit says, maybe ask if you can wait a week and if nothing has happened by then, ask them to scan you then?

As far as options go, having had an ERPC for my mmc, but had natural (tablets and pessary) management for my tx at 13 weeks, I'd opt for the ERPC every time.

Obviously, the emotional impact of losing the babies was the same, but physically, the ERPC was much easier for me to get over. (TBH, I found the medical management quite harrowing and painful to go through, but I know everyone reacts differently to different things)

Look after yourself missus - and you know where we are if you need an ear x

hi hairy, its utter utter shite and i feel for you.
Ive had the tablets, then after it was over, i had a scan to ensure evrything was gone.

They have never taken away the products to look at them for me, but they did for my friend. Came back as nothing wrong and that did not help her at all, so there are arguments for and against.

I have also opted to wait, this was awful, knew at 7 weeks, didnt miscarry till 13 weeks, wait was excruciating.

Never taken the surgical option.

To be told that you have only had 2 mcs this year is crap, not sure that they actually do anything till you have had 3, having said that i have had to fight and battle to be given any attention and i have had 3 in the last 2 years. That attention ahs fallen very very short and i have wasted 2 years.
So am getting myself off to Liverpools womens hozzy as they are a specialist centre. help is out there, dont be fobbed off. x

So sorry Hairy that is such sad news, we are on another thread together, and was wondering how you were doing, so very sorry for your loss.

Take your time in making up your mind, it's your choice, and do what you feel is best for you.

As Broken mentioned about going to the womens hospital, I am also attending the MC clinic on the 25th. I have had two mc's and a chemical in the middle...I really had to push for investigations, age isn't on my side!.

You may not feel like doing anything at the moment...but if and when you do...push for referral.

sending you hugs XX

just wanted to say sorry to hearthis hairy It's shit isn't it?

Look after yourself, for what it's worth, I have opted for erpc on the occasions that my body has refused to let go, found closure easier to deal with than not knowing when it was gonna happen.

Hugs to you. xx

Thanks all of you.

Jolls I don't know how you have coped, lovely. :(

Oh hairy, I am so sorry. We are mc twins I think as we miscarried together in June/July and now :(
I have always opted for erpc just to get things over with so I can carry on with emotional recovery. Take care xxx

Hairy that sounds absolutely awful. I imagine it would be hard to go through with the surgery without a confirmation. Having said that, the second scan would just be telling you what you already know.
I had the opposite experience. I did not want a second scan after my private one. I could see quite clearly, on a large widescreen television that there was nothing there. However the EPU made me have another internal scan as they said they had to confirm it before going ahead with the surgery. Did you have a written report and a scan picture from the private scan and was it done at a hospital? If so maybe they have decided that it is conclusive enough for them. still doesn't make it any better for you though :(
If you choose to wait they will have to rescan you in a couple of weeks to make sure you are not at risk for infection surely?
I would also opt for the ERPC again. The waiting is just horrible and I found getting it over with quickly to be better.

Whatever you decide I wish you a speedy recovery from the very shit physical aspect of this and hope that you will be feeling better soon.

Thanks Banana. it is shit isn't it. So sorry you are also mc again :(

I am thinking ERPC now as I really don't want to have to go through it while I'm awake. Especially after the problems I had in June with bleeding for over a month.

Kat2504 they took the report from the private hospital off me at the NHS hospital and I was so upset I forgot to get it back.

They didn't do a picture. I sort of wish they had so that I had something for a memory box or something. :(

Are you based in London? If so you could go to the Early Pregnancy Unit at St Georges for a scan. I think it's a walk in service they operate in the morning.

Good luck

Hairy, I'm so sorry.

FWIW I had two mcs in 3 months at the start of the year - one chemical pg, one MMC for which I had ERPC at nine weeks or so.

The day in the hospital was no fun, but physically, it really wasn't bad - hardly any pain afterwards, and I only bled for a few days. It was also a very final thing, IYSWIM, didn't have to wait and wonder.

Am shocked that they won't scan you again, though.

Maybe instead of a memory box, you could plant something that will flower either at this time of year, or your baby's due time?

no, not in London, but being 'treated' at EPU if you can call it that - I'd call it more being fobbed off and spoken to like an idiot, whilst being looked down upon for even thinking I could be successfully pregnant at forty two :(

Why do they ask your age when they have your dob right in front of them, and why do they ask if you have any children????!!!!

Thanks stillfrazzled. So sorry for your losses and thanks for your advice.

I think the op sounds appealing for the very reasons you say. You're asleep, you wake up, it's done. at least the physical stuff.

We'd thought about a tree to memorialise our litte one and will probably do somethng along those lines.

Yeah, that was pretty much my thinking. Once I knew there was no hope, I just wanted it all over with.

The only thing I would say - and prob this is just me and you will handle it far better - is that I was a bit too quick to assume that the op being all over meant that it was ALL over. And then the emotional reaction set in three days later and I was totally stunned by grief.

So you might need to give yourself time to get out of survival mode after the op, and start grieving and coming to terms with it, if that makes sense.

Oh hairy I'm sorry you haven't got your report back.
No picture is a very two sided thing. I had two private scans because I had to go back. I have the one with the too-small embryo with the too-slow heartbeat and at least I have a memory of the baby I lost. I also have the one two weeks later of the big empty misshapen sac and I wish I had never seen it.

Sorry they have been insensitive with you at the EPAU. They should not need to ask your age they have all that information from your dob, and anyway, miscarriage can affect people of any age. They should know better.

I take it you didn't have the op last time? There are pros and cons but I think if it has been a while and it hasn't happened naturally already, it is a really good option. If you want any information about what it is like before during and after I'd be happy to tell you what it was like for me.

Sending you masses of hugs and sympathy.

Hairy....:( as you know we have sort of ticked along for a while now. I am so sad for you my lovlie, don't you let any Dr say anything about your age etc, or look down on you, just because some of us don't fit into the text book of pregnant women - we are no less deserving and have every right to a healthy pregnancy.

RE the tablets / surgery option, I would have surgery every time and would not reccomend the tablets to anyone. I only say this as when I had the tablets in March - i actually didn't expell all 'products' and bled for 9 weeks in total. The MC was bad enough - but to bleed for that long nearly sent me around the bend (seriously). This time I had surgery - I was in and out so quickly - bled for 4 days and am now waiting for my first period - I do feel like I am about to ovulate - 21 days later. Surgery for me helped me move forward and start planning again.

It is a personal choice my love, and I am so so sad you are having to make the choice. PM me if you want - I will be happy to give you info and support if you want xxx

Hairy, I am so sorry for your loss :( I had mc same day waiting for ERPC and certainly wish it hadn't happened and I could just have had the surgery. It was a quick procedure and I felt 'recovered' after about 2 weeks, back to gym after 3. I really wanted ERPC as I didn't want to see anything and it to be over quickly, I found that part of MC most upsetting. I know everyone's different though.

How insensitive some people can be, there really is an indifference to 1, 2 or any amount of MC when it's heartbreaking.

I don't mean to be I sensitive myself, but if you really wanted a pic, could you go back for another private scan? Understandable if it is too much to bear, not sure what i would do in your position, and I apologise if I sound crass

Hairy I am so sorry

It really is shit.

From my experience of M/Cs and pregnancies afterwards, in your position I'd wait a few days to see if it started naturally. Then I'd present at the EPU as a new case, if I had the nerve.

ERPCs are good to get it over with, and quick. But you do a little bit of the lining of the womb - I remember my periods for a few months afterwards being very thin blood and it took 9 months to get PG again after my second ERPC (wasn't trying after my first). After my third m/c I had the choice to have the ERPC or not, as they didn't think I needed one. I decided not to, and I got pregnant again the next month. I still think - wow, if I had had that ERPC, I just don't think I would have had DS1.

I do know ERPCs are necessary to avoid infection when the miscarriage is incomplete, or when infection appears to be starting. But in the position you are in at the moment: if you are able to have a more natural solution then that's what I would recommend.

Thinking of you.

I am happy

argh - lose a little bit of the lining of the womb

and

I am NOT happy! I was going to add "I am happy to be flamed about not recommending ERPC as I am only talking from experience and have no medical advice" but decided not to.

No I am SAD for you, Hairy.

Thanks everyone. Epu nurse said thus morning of course they will re scan me. So it's on mom morning.

I am seriously thinking d & c because emotionally I can't cope with another physical mc. After the last one and bleeding for five weeks and it
still not resolving itself I just can't do it.

It's good that you'll get another scan to put your mind at ease. I personally felt the need to 'physically' miscarry in order to move on, and I actually saw it. But I can totally see how the surgical option would help you recover and get on with life. I think I'm perhaps a bit odd.
Am really for you. Best of luck.