Hrt linked to dementia

[Ninaguineapig]

I thought it was supposed to prevent it.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/28/health/hrt-dementia-risk-wellness/index.html

There is no such thing as different brains for men vs women.

And you have not understood my point is that if we needed HIGH levels of estrogen for life to avoid dementia, then MEN would have dementia by their teens.

Of course we all need some estrogen- men have estrogen. But the extra estrogen for women is for our sex organs and when we age out of fertility, our sex organs no longer need that higher level of estrogen (nor do men need that higher level of testosterone for their fertility).

So it is not at all logical to link declining estrogen due to menopause to early signs of dementia developing a few years later. I know the onset of Alzheimer’s is not concurrent with menopause, but those linking menopause and loss of estrogen to dementia seem to point to dementia like symptoms of menopause like brain fog, forgetfulness, and inability to focus.

Yeah, I know you have said 'may' but it comes over more strongly than that @ReleasetheCrackHen in your posts. You made a very strong case for women being older etc and that's why they get dementia, but the peak difference in life expectancy was only ever 6 years ( in 1971) and now it's less than 3 years.

One interesting stat is that single women live longest, married men live longer than single men, and married women die earlier than /have poorer health than single women.

Maybe one reason women get dementia is they are too busy caring for others and not themselves.

And you have not understood my point is that if we needed HIGH levels of estrogen for life to avoid dementia, then MEN would have dementia by their teens.

This going into the realms of fantasy. Men have almost zero estrogen.

Sorry but what you are posting now is not science, it's just your own theories.

@ReleasetheCrackHen Respectfully, your understanding of female biology is skewed. The ovaries produce estrogen. Menopause occurs when the ova run out. Not sure what you mean by 'sex organs'.

It looks like if you get brain fog and memory problems during peri menopausa/menopause you get dementia.

I can't believe there are still women in 2023, on a menopause forum of all places, who believe our brains are the same as men's, that the brain is not a sex organ etc. I presume this is some fake 'feminist' thing. You'll be quoting Cordelia Fine next. Although the root of this is Cartesian dualism that incorrectly separates the brain from the rest of the body. Ironically that's a false binary that our primate brains do fall into very easily.

Are all the women here who have cognitive and mood effects from their cycles, from hormonal contraception, childbirth, menopause and HRT imagining it? Are men getting PMDD these days? We are absolutely not the same and our brains desperately need research that doesn't treat a male brain as the default.

Funny how my understanding of biology is “skewed” but you don’t know what a sex organ is. It’s biology 101, basic stuff.
A sex organ, also known as a reproductive organ, is a part of an organism that is involved in sexual reproduction. Sex organs constitute the primary sex characteristics of an organism

Yes, that’s the primate brain linking the red flags for later developing dementia that occur during menopause to loss of estrogen in menopause causing dementia. But there’s been no evidence found thus far of a causal link between low estrogen and dementia.

I can't believe there are still women in 2023, on a menopause forum of all places, who believe our brains are the same as men's, that the brain is not a sex organ etc. I presume this is some fake 'feminist' thing.

The brain is not a sex organ. That is biological fact.
The human brain is the same in both sexes. That is also biological fact.
Neurologists actually call the myth that male and female brains are different “neuro sexism.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

It’s not my theory, it is what ‘first principles” would actually lead us to conclude if applied correctly and not incorrectly as the poster I was responding to had done. I stated in my post that “first principles sucks ass” when it comes to researching the causes of dementia.

All this has been you needing additional explanation of what correcting applying first principles to the role of estrogen in dementia would lead us to conclude.

It’s not my view, or a theory and I’m happy for it to be called fantasy because first principles are really unscientific and suck ass.

I don't know what you mean by 'first principles' or indeed 'suck ass'!

Your posts seem to show you don't understand the basic biology of hormones and where /how estrogen is produced (by the fact you compare estrogen in men to women.)

I think it's "game over" if you get forgetfulness in perimenopause. I don't think any amount of estrogen will help.

I think that's a bit dramatic tbh. Lots of women get a bit forgetful without it being game over.

No, it really doesn’t come across any stronger as we have used almost identical wording. I made no such ‘case’ and it’s good practice to list first the one and only proven causal factor as to why more women over age 80 get the Alzheimer’s type of dementia than men before listing the other links that are not as well proven or merely hypothesised. In summarising science you always start with what is known as a fact, and progress downwards from there to the “may” cause and “might” be linked.

One interesting stat is that single women live longest, married men live longer than single men, and married women die earlier than /have poorer health than single women. Do you have a link for this as the majority of studies show that married men and women have longer active life expectancy (ALE) where they are healthy and active and longer total life expectancy (TLE) than single men and women?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7452000/

Well not knowing what is meant is generally what happens when you horn in on a conversation without reading the quote history.

Lol, I don’t understand biology? You’re the one still insisting you need ovaries to produce any estrogen!

Here’s a little paper on estrogen production in males.
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00018.2016

No I don't have a link just at this moment and won't be looking, but it's something that is well known and the evidence is there.

There is also a lot of evidence on estrogen and brain health that doesn't reach the press. eg women who have ovarian removal before 49 have a hugely higher risk of dementia (as do women with POI so they are prescribed HRT at 51 at least.)

UK experts on menopause (doctors who have spent a lifetime researching this and working as consultants) always say that with POI women need HRT for bone, heart and brain health.

There is as much research showing the protective effects of estrogen on the brain. It just doesn't hit the press.

There has to be unequivocal evidence for prescribing any drug as a prophylactic.
HRT isn't in that category yet for brain health but it is prescribed for osteopenia and osteoporosis in women under 60. There is also unequivocal evidence on the benefit of estrogen and heart health. But again, the licensing authorities aren't there yet, to agree to prescribing it for that. But in practice, that means that informed drs will be saying to women that if there is a family history of CVD or osteoporosis, they should consider HRT.
The jury is still out on dementia, but it's already clear that early menopause and removal of ovaries has a detrimental effect.

Lol, I don’t understand biology? You’re the one still insisting you need ovaries to produce any estrogen!

Oh come on, stop making things up.
I didn't say that. I said the ovaries produce estrogen. Post menopause, we still have estrogen produced mainly by adipose cells (fat.) But it's around 10% of what we had pre-menopause.

Ok I'm done with this chat now.

This clickbait stuff shits me to tears.

Did you read the entire article?

My grandfather smoked from when he was 13.

He died in his sleep at 96. What’s your point?

@W0tnow
My grandfather is 97 and still living independently

I notice you didn't answer the simple questions I asked. All you have is politicized 20th century 'feminist' 'science'. I hand you actual science about the relationship between sex hormones and the gut microbiome and you haul out a Lise Eliot sermon from the pulpit of Nature? You might as well claim that because both men and women have a hippocampus our brains are the same. That's how ridiculous this is and you know it. Always sh&tty politics interfering with women's health. What's absolutely sexist is denying that hormones have any impact on our brains. All those silly little hysterical women must be imagining it of course.

That’s nice, but you didn’t answer my question.

In my view menopause is a natural process, it's not a case of women malfunctioning at the age of menopause and then needing to be topped up with hormones, rather our bodies are optimised for higher levels of hormones during our reproductive years and lower levels as we age.
Obviously menopause can be problematic for women and if the symptoms are interfering with your quality of life it makes sense to use HRT.

Well known is it?
One interesting stat is that single women live longest, married men live longer than single men, and married women die earlier than /have poorer health than single women.

The most recent U.K. ONS data doesn’t support your “stat.”

• ”Males and females of all ages (those aged 20 years and over, those aged 20 to 64 years, and those aged 65 years and over) who were married or in a civil partnership consistently had the lowest age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs).
• In 2019, across males aged 20 years and over, divorcees had the highest ASMR at 2,319.0 deaths per 100,000 males.
• In 2019, of all females aged 20 years and over, those who were single had the highest ASMR at 1,307.0 deaths per 100,000.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/mortalitybymaritalstatusinenglandandwales/2010to2019

It would be helpful if you could support any other assertions.

In that case, Cancer is a natural process. Alzheimer’s is a natural process, Coronaey Artery Disease is a natural process…
So many of these natural processes are also a natural response to aging, but people can choose to suck it up or not. If you want to live healthily for as long as possible, people CAN choose HRT for all of the very positive effects it can have on one’s health.