Hrt linked to dementia

[Ninaguineapig]

I thought it was supposed to prevent it.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/28/health/hrt-dementia-risk-wellness/index.html

It sounds like a dedicated thread for 'people who aren't using HRT' might be useful. Some people can't take it after all (and it could be useful for everyone).

This

My point is you CAN talk about this. Especially if you are as robust as you are on here. Rather than complain. Do it.

I have talked about this. I am not interested in being told (yet again) I have a one in two chance of osteoporosis; or that my risk of dementia, cardiovascular disease, and death after a bone break from osteoporosis is vastly increased.

If you are so keen to see, as an experiment, as you don't believe me or others here who have experienced it, why don't you start that thread.

Well, obviously the menopause board is posted on mostly by people who are experiencing distressing symptoms, and are therefore more likely to use or think about HRT. If you don't have any problems, you're less likely to post. If you are having distressing symptoms but don't want to take HRT, of course people whose distressing symptoms have been relieved by HRT will advise you to try it. It's a bit like saying you have a headache but don't want to take painkillers - what can you try? Most people will suggest you give the painkillers a go if the hot compress and the chamomile tea haven't shifted it.

If you are so keen to see, as an experiment, as you don't believe me or others here who have experienced it, why don't you start that thread.

Not bothered at all to see.

But I'm interested in why someone would complain vociferously but no t start their own thread🤷‍♀️

If you don't want to read about HRT, maybe join Menopause Matters (forum.)

They have an Alternatives part of that forum. It might be your tribe.

On the other hand, you WILL find that HRT is discussed in far more detail on the rest of the site compared to here. Most women posting on the site are using it, or want to, or want advice on issues with it .

It's a consultant- led site and there are plenty of links and 'education' on the pros and cons of all treatments.

So you keep saying. And I have explained, it would be pointless.

I don't need to start my own thread, as I know already from prior experience on and much reading over the last 10 years of the menopause board, that there has never been a thread on non-hrt life that is not bombarded with warnings, to the degree that it is usually totally derailed and spoiled of its purpose.

I'm wondering if it might be an idea to start a new thread in Site Stuff, to talk to MNHQ about this?

I completely get where posters are coming from in wanting to be able to have a thread or threads about not following a particular health route or medical path that don't get jumped on by other posters repeatedly critiquing the premise of the thread, particularly if it looks like the same few posters are starting to give the appearance of dominating multiple threads.

You can see it on various boards, about various topics.

I think if MNHQ have a discussion with MN users then some sort of solution might be found. Possibly.

Like a few posters on this thread, I didn't take hormonal contraception so when I found myself struggling with perimenopause in my 30s, I did initially try a more natural herbal rand diet & lifestyle route. Nothing helped. My symptoms were so debilitating, I had to try HRT. It was life-changing, as well as restorative. As I'm now post-menopause and still in my 40s, HRT is actually recommended for those under 50. When I reach that age, will reassess my need for HRT. As for the study that links HRT to dementia, for me, the benefits of HRT outweigh the risk, and besides, the study isn't conclusive anyway.

On another note, am curious to know why some posters on this thread think HRT is marketed as that hasn't been my experience at all. At no point in my dealings with GPs was HRT pushed on me. If anything, many GPs told me I needed to just put us with things as it's what is just something women go through.

And no, I don't think Davina's documentary was an HRT marketing exercise. Instead, it was an awareness campaign to highlight a myriad of symptoms that many women might find themselves struggling to deal with and not join the dots together to realise they're perimenopause and/or menopause connected. Indeed, many GPs can't join dots together, so it isn't a surprise that many women do not. In this respect, the menopause boards on MN are incredibly helpful and for some, a starting point - people can take what they want, and dismiss what does not suit.

I've recently in my 50's had a total hysterectomy. My Harley Street menopause specialist trained under Marion Gluck and tells me I need oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone for multiple reasons including bone and heart health. She backs it up with evidence and I can see the results in my clarity of thinking and energy levels.

I do not believe I have a higher chance of dementia as my HRT affords me the energy to exercise daily and keep my weight down but even if I do, with the hell that my life was without HRT I would choose it every time and will be taking it to my grave

It seems the hrt cult members are starting to fill this thread too. Packed with science but only the ones that are positive. Negative research results are quickly covered by the statements from "experts".

I guess it's impossible to have a thread where no hrt enthusiasts will come to tell their stories.

" cult members "

" experts"

This is literally the first time I have ever been on a Menopause thread. I can't believe it.

Is it always like this? Wow

You're not celebrating or talking about non HRT menopause . this was an active thread to put HRT down. It's all there in the OP.

Yet you proclaim *
I guess it's impossible to have a thread where no hrt enthusiasts will come to tell their stories.*

Honestly that's what I meant about anti vax vibes. It's exactly the same approach.

I'm literally flabbergasted. I'm approaching menopause and the title caught my eye. Its literally HRT wars on here.

@Ninaguineapig

@highfidelity

The marketing doesn’t come from the NHS or BMS, but are commissioned various private organisations that profit massively if more women are convinced they need HRT. While I have no issue with raising awareness and women accessing HRT, I do have concerns that many of those who are considered to be foremost experts have a financial conflict of interest.

The entire objective of the documentaries done by Davina McCall was to increase the demand of HRT. Both shows are sophisticated marketing of HRT to women. And the makers admitted as much.

“The makers of Davina McCall: Sex, Mind and the Menopause said they expect the programme to inspire “another wave of women to go to their GPs” to ask for HRT. They also expect a surge in demand for testosterone, whose potential benefits are also highlighted in the programme.” www.theguardian.com/society/2022/may/01/hrt-demand-expected-to-surge-after-new-davina-mccall-film-on-menopause

“The “Davina effect” caused NHS prescriptions to peak at nearly 700,000 in May, up from 380,000 a year earlier, representing a monthly spend of £9.4m, according to OpenPrescribing. “ (see screen shot for graphic)
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/24/hrt-inside-the-complex-global-supply-chain-behind-a-20bn-market

Davina McCall is a “campaigning ambassador” for The Menopause Charity. www.themenopausecharity.org/about-the-menopause-charity/

One “maker” -the creator and producer of Davina’s other documentary “Sex, Myths and the Menopause,” was Kate Muir, also a campaigning ambassador (activist) with the Menopause Charity.

katemuir.co.uk/menopause

At the centre of the ‘makers’ is The Menopause Charity which was founded by Dr Louise Newson.

Dr. Louise Newson is also the founder and CEO of the largest private menopause clinic in Europe. Dr Newson is also in the Davina documentary Sex, Myths and the Menopause and the two have frequently collaborated on podcasts, appeared on Loose Women and so on.

The demand for HRT massively increased the number of private patients at Dr Newson’s menopause clinic as a result of the documentaries

From 300 a month to 2,500 patients a month from 2020 to 2021 after the first Davina documentary (at £295 per appointment that is an increase in revenues from £1.1m/Yr to £8.9m/Yr): 

“Although we have expanded rapidly – from seeing around 300 patients a month in the clinic a year ago to over 2,500 patients a month now – we have not expanded quick enough to meet the demands for appointments.” newsonhealthopportunities.co.uk
(Statement is from 2021, also corroborated by the fact she references her clinic being opened “three years ago”- it was opened in 2018)

And then from 2,500 to 4,000 patients a month after the 2023 documentary, and further increase to £14.2m/Yr  in revenues:
“Each month, Newson Health sees about 4,000 women who are looking for treatment for perimenopause – the transitional phase when hormone production slows before periods stop – and menopause symptoms. They can book an appointment with one of its 100 clinicians, including Dr Newson, either online or in person at one of its three centres, which are situated in Stratford-upon-Avon, London’s Harley Street and Bournemouth.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11927783/Is-Britains-foremost-menopause-doctor-risking-womens-lives-alarmingly-high-doses-HRT.html

If the profit margin has been stable, this represents a 1300% increase in total profits to Dr Louise Newson for what is now a multimillion £ private health clinic. I’m not saying she has bad intentions, just that she has a financial conflict of interest in that it is to her pecuniary advantage to convince more and more women that they need HRT.

Sadly, there are serious concerns that women are not getting the medical care they should be from her clinic:
“One of Britain’s most high-profile menopause doctors has been accused of putting women’s health at risk by prescribing ‘alarmingly high’ doses of HRT. Government adviser Dr Louise Newson – who also featured in TV star Davina McCall’s trailblazing 2021 documentary Sex, Myths And The Menopause – is allegedly offering hormone replacement drugs above licensed maximum amounts to thousands of patients at her private clinic, Newson Health. Dr Newson, who charges up to £295 for appointments, insists that giving higher doses to some women – particularly those hit by distressing mental health problems and suicidal thoughts – offers relief where all else has failed.” ….

“Joyce Harper, professor of reproductive science at the Institute for Women’s Health at University College London, said she was ‘horrified’ by our findings. She said: ‘You should not go against guidelines and give women higher and higher doses of a powerful drug without any real data on what it will do. ‘This is not evidence-based medicine. If you do want to try a new approach then it should be done as part of a clinical trial, otherwise it could be dangerous.’
‘In my opinion this sort of practice is treating patients like guinea pigs and charging them for the privilege.’”

It gets more concerning as you read on.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11927783/Is-Britains-foremost-menopause-doctor-risking-womens-lives-alarmingly-high-doses-HRT.html

Well, I started taking HRT almost six years ago, so neither Dr Newsom or Davina had any bearing on my decision.

I also like to think that the majority of women who are going through perimenopause and menopause will do a little critical thinking about HRT rather than taking advice from a tv presenter or from people online. Like I said, the menopause boards are a great starting point but women should be doing their own research on HRT and not be reliant on randoms online. Indeed, this is why I rarely, if never recommend my own women's health specialist to anyone who DMs me as it isn't my place to do so.

On a related note, just a few weeks ago, an NHS consultant tried to talk me into genetic testing and if needed, a double mastectomy citing Angelina Jolie as someone I should be like. I laughed in his face. I mean seriously, like an adult is going to be swayed by something a celebrity has done. It's ridiculous.

I still chose to believe that Davina is raising awareness about menopause full stop. It's the start of a conversation, not the final word.

I quite agree with @sunglassesonthetable about the anti-vax vibes that are on this thread.

*I still choose to believe that Davina is raising awareness about menopause full stop. It's the start of a conversation, not the final word.

I still chose to believe that Davina is raising awareness about menopause full stop.

She is raising awareness, but perhaps rewatch the documentary and ask yourself is it balanced? How many women does she feature who were not “saved” by HRT? Were there any women not on HRT that were going through peri or menopause that were happy without HRT? Did she give equal weight to the risks of HRT as she did to the benefits? Were all risks/benefits well researched?

Keep in mind the more women who seek HRT as a result of her broadcast, the more her career and celebrity status grows along with her income.

Given every single biological woman will go through menopause at some point, it is appalling that GPs are so terrible at dealing with. The real issue is the lack of training - if GPs were properly trained in women's health and menopause and did their job properly, women like Davina wouldn't need to make programmes about the menopause (and HRT) in the first place.

My GP may as well have pulled her knowledge on menopause out of a lucky bag.

She is raising awareness, but perhaps rewatch the documentary and ask yourself is it balanced?

Given Davina was talking about her experiences, yes, it was considered and balanced. She chose to take the HRT route, so it seems futile to talk about options that don't include this. I actually found her doc a little frustrating as it didn't really explore atrophy properly, something that can be easily reversed with an over-the-counter pessary. Additionally, while Davina found salvation with a Mirena, some (including myself) need far more progesterone.

As for the women 'not saved by HRT'. If HRT doesn't have the desired results, it is usually because they're on HRT that isn't prescribed at the right levels or combinations for their needs. My first experience with HRT was terrible, it made everything worse and later found out it was because a) the oestrogen levels was too high and b) am allergic to norethisterone. Even when I went to see a private specialist, it took a few goes to get the dosage levels correct. And even then it wasn't plain sailing as after 18 months, we needed to adjust the dosage again. HRT is only as good as the person('s knowledge) who is prescribing it. Which rather takes me back to my original point that GPs need way more training in this, along with perimenopause and menopause as a whole.

Keep in mind the more women who seek HRT as a result of her broadcast, the more her career and celebrity status grows along with her income.

This idea Davina is doing this purely to make money and grow her status is as ridiculous as it is offensive. Davina has always been altruistic. It's a public service, and I am for one grateful she's got the standing to be able to make documentaries like this. I wish there had been more widely available information like this back when I was struggling to make the GP take my concerns seriously. Am sure thousands of other women feel likewise.

I recall the NOT one. It really did go down the pan ending with those who did take HRT telling others who don’t to stop posting.

I remember one with a poster saying her friends all looked ancient, they couldn't get boyfriends and staff at the hospital always asked her if she was her poor decrepit friends daughter such was the gorgeous youthfulness hrt gave her.

I've always been on the fence, fine yes HRT is great if problems are impacting lives very negatively but I loathe all the promotion from usually private clinics featured on programmes like This Morning. They never feature a Dr who isn't pro hrt for balance it's always Louise Newson.

So if we’re hypothesising that synthetic hormones may cause neurological problems. Where does that leave us with the tens of thousands of young people who are currently changing sex and will be taking synthetic hormones for life?

My mother and her friends didn't take HRT. In fact I don't know a single older woman in my family who has done.

I feel like many many women have passed through menopause without HRT. I feel like this would have been the norm.

My doctor seems clueless. It seems easier to come across this scenario than an experienced down to earth guide to options tbh.

So, who told you that GPs aren’t doing their jobs and are poorly trained? Oh yes that would be Davina and Newson and so on with their testimonials (classic marketing).

Just saying.