Week 10 - Low Carb Bootcamp - the finishing line!

[BIWI]

Morning all. Sorry for the late start to the thread, but I slept in. Then hungry cats had to be fed before I could deal with this!

Anyway here's the spreadsheet for its penultimate outing

Hopefully all good news to report - but never fear, if last week hasn't been great, you still have a few days left to sort that.

Looks like it's going to be a more settled week weather-wise, and hopefully we really will be seeing more and more signs of spring to cheer us all up.

Here's to a great last week

"Mimosa1
Just popping on to say that Heinz tomato soup with no added sugar only has 10g of carbs per can ! I know it's processed and not ideal BUT it's my favourite comfort food when I'm ill and I'm very happy 😊 that abs some melted cheese on a SLC roll and I'm in heaven. 
Sorry to burst that happy bubble, but it's 10.1g carbs per half can!"

Noooooooo (but thanks for checking @Biwi / it was too good to be true!)

Tomato soup with grated cheese in is my ill food too!

Feel bloated this morning, might need to up my water a bit.

Plan for today is
L: creamy cauli soup and some salami
D: haddock, Fennel and cream casserole. Might roast some cabbage wedges with it.

I have to say this woe leaves me really cravy green veg even though I am eating loads of it. Shift of taste buds?

Very pleased that I didn't snack last night. I find one good day begets another so everything crossed.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal
if your weight, and body fat is low is it worth totally stopping weighing? Focussing on health instead? When I was at a similar point I was asked here: why do I need the number to be lower? Will it magically make me happier? I reflected on that and shifted focus. This might not be relevant for you so feel free to ignore. I have had years of binging and restricting and being negative to myself and I am really feeling much better stepping away from that. Little by little

@Bestbees

Tomato soup with grated cheese in is my ill food too!

Feel bloated this morning, might need to up my water a bit.

Plan for today is
L: creamy cauli soup and some salami
D: haddock, Fennel and cream casserole. Might roast some cabbage wedges with it.

I have to say this woe leaves me really cravy green veg even though I am eating loads of it. Shift of taste buds?

Very pleased that I didn't snack last night. I find one good day begets another so everything crossed.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal
if your weight, and body fat is low is it worth totally stopping weighing? Focussing on health instead? When I was at a similar point I was asked here: why do I need the number to be lower? Will it magically make me happier? I reflected on that and shifted focus. This might not be relevant for you so feel free to ignore. I have had years of binging and restricting and being negative to myself and I am really feeling much better stepping away from that. Little by little

I do totally get what you're saying, BestBees. I just worry if I get complacent my weight will start creeping up again - this has been the pattern in the past. I've been low-carb for nearly 2 years now, and still won't get rid of my old, too big clothes, as I fundamentally don't "trust" this weight loss.

My plan once the gyms open is to start weight training and focus on strength and fitness. I know this will probably increase my weight, but in a healthy way.

Greebo weight training won't make much difference to your weight. If you really went for it lifting heavy and maximising hypertrophy then you might be able to gain 6-8 lb of muscle in your first year then very little after that, maybe 2 lb in your second year. Also when people first start weight training they usually lose fat at the same time as building muscle. So overall your weight might increase by a little but it would be by a handful of pounds and you would be slimmer since muscle takes up less room than fat. I've been weight training since the end of December and my weight has stayed exactly the same even though I'm lifting much heavier weights than when I started so my muscle mass must have increased.

Thanks StuntNun. I'd like to be stronger and fitter overall. My upper body strength in particular is pathetic, I can't even manage a single press up!

A lot of women can't Greebo. I'm working my way up to press ups. I can do incline press ups at 45 degrees now, i.e. three sets of 10 press ups with good form. But that's after three months of specifically training to be able to do a press up. However I did have a very poor level of strength to start with and almost no muscle in my upper back. It's weird because I can easily do a straight arm plank for two minutes but not even a single press up.

I'm trying and failing to do the easy health challenge so feeling inspired by you ladies to try again.

Do people think bodies have a natural "set" weight point ? I mean, is there any science behind it do you think? 70kg seems to be mine. I lose anything above it seemingly so quickly but anything below is sloow even though at 25, my BMI isn't tiny. I don't think I'm doing anything differently. I know I've only been on this BC for 3 weeks but I've been low caving for over a month so I don't think it's the week 3 gremlins. Hmm.. I expect if I'm consistent it will eventually woosh off.

I’m reading a book just now that argues for a set weight point, it’s called Why We Eat (too much) and I’ve just started it but it’s very interesting in terms of how our system controls our weight and the need to work with our bodies to get past the set weight point. Interestingly enough the author is a bariatric surgeon and seems to be suggesting a Bootcamp style diet - high fat, lots of green veggies and no processed food. He doesn’t rule out rice, pasta and potatoes though, which is different but his argument re high fat and processed food is quite compelling.

@Mimosa1

There is a theory that the body does have a 'set point' - but I've never really been convinced. Why should the set point be higher than a healthy weight, for example?

That said, I know that I definitely reach a point where I do get stuck for a while - no idea why.

Anyone got any thoughts on the ideal weight for your body frame theory? According to that, based on my wrist size I have a small frame, and so my ideal weight is between 126-130lbs.

That's a stone less than I weight now and seems impossibly tiny!

I think it comes down to the body having a drive to hold on to fat, more than anything else. We’re programmed to seek out high nutrition/high calorie foods and to lay on fat. Especially women. So the body is always going resist at certain intervals, which probably accounts for individuals’ ‘set points’.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal I think that sounds like crap tbh. People make up a lot of nonsense around weight.

I also think a lot of ‘ideal weight’ stuff is centred around young people. When I was young I was a size 8 without even trying, even after having had my children. I weighed around 108-110 lbs.

I’m in my forties now. I couldn’t get back to or stay at that weight without very extreme dieting. I don’t want to, either.

I don't think our bodies have specific set points as such. For example when someone loses then regains weight they usually end up heavier than when they started. However it's definitely true that our bodies get stuck at certain weights. So Mimosa you get to 70kg and progression past that point seems impossible. But actually once you do get past it you will keep on losing. There are lots of factors influencing this. It's very common to have a long weight loss stall at six months in, no matter what method you're using to lose weight. And the six month stall can last for weeks to months. There are two main factors at play. The first is homeostasis. The best thing for your body is for it to stay the same because everything else: weight loss, weight gain, muscle gain etc. has a metabolic cost and is therefore inefficient. The second factor is that our bodies don't have mechanisms for weight loss. There are short-term mechanisms controlling homeostasis. So if a person at a healthy weight with a healthy metabolism forces themselves to over eat, such as with Sam Feltham's 5000 calorie challenges, their weight will return to normal afterwards when they start eating normally again. But for weight that has been gained over the long-term there are no systems in the body to lose it again so you spend the whole time fighting against homeostasis.

Ignore the wrist thingy @GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal - it's really not very accurate. According to that I'm a large frame. I'm not a large frame, I just have very small hands! (And my wrists are thin - I always have to have my watch strap either on one of the smallest settings or, if it's a metal strap, have several links taken out so it will fit)

I'm a bit alarmed that you can't seem to judge what your ideal weight should be though. It shouldn't be a random number on the scales, but it should be about what you look like a) in your clothes and b) in the mirror.

I can understand that in your line of work, having to have your weight on your CV must create unnecessary additional pressure on you, but I worry that you seem to have body dysmorphia.

However, if you know that 126-30 lbs is too low for you, then just ignore it! The key is that you're happy with the weight you've attained and can maintain.

The book I’m reading suggests a combination of genetics, epigenetics and environment combine to cause a higher set weight point - it’s quite complex so I’ll try to summarise when I’ve got more time but I’d recommend the book for folk who like reading about this sort of thing.

I know, BIWI, I'm sorry. I'm aware my thinking around this has become a little...twisted.

I remember someone on a previous thread, many moons ago, talking about your "fat goggles" changing as you get thinner - ie: your perspective of what is too fat/slim enough for you changing as you get smaller. Two years the very idea of weighing 10.8 would've absolutely delighted me - at 12.10 at the time it would have seemed impossibly, delightfully skinny. But last week seeing that number on the scales sent me into an absolute tail spin.

I'm another one with ridiculous wrists that needs her watches specially fitted BIWI!

There is no ideal weight for your frame Greebo as it's going to depend on your proportions of muscle and body fat. When I reached my goal weight of 60kg in 2013, my figure was very different from when I had last been at that weight in 2002. I was skinny fat so although I was slim I had saggy areas on my upper arms and legs and I was still carrying a lot of weight on my abdomen. I didn't need to lose weight but I did need to build muscle and lose a little bit of fat. I a couple of pounds heavier than that right now and my figure is ten times better because I'm physically fitter.

Yes training properly makes a huge difference. Physically but also mentally, because you can build your body and appreciate it and feel powerful.

Another tiny wristed person here. Is there some link?!

I have been overweight my whole life and my metabolism is clearly very slow. I ate too much when very young, and I can see my daughter not only doing exactly the same and developing the exact same figure (all weight on her/my stomach) which worries me.

In my teens I slimmed down quite a lot and was a size 14 which would probably be a 10 now (looking at photos of myself). But then my mother died, my father was drunk, and I stopped eating for a year. (Even then I had a stomach, when I was pretty skeletal everywhere else - eg hurt to sit without a cushion.) When I started eating again, I ate and ate and ate and put on 4/5 stones in about a year. When I went to university I would eat large bowls of pasta with whole loaves of bread for dinner.

The last 20 years have been an up and down battle with my weight, but I'm currently at a weight which my GP has proclaimed 'fine', BMI of 27/28, and can buy clothes from normal shops. I'm not 'thin' - I do have a smallish bone structure and am flat chested with a large stomach - but I'm not fat in a way that bothers me other than when I see photos.

However, I am heading for menopause, and some of my physical health markers (blood pressure/blood sugar) are hovering at the top of normal and won't be going downwards without some intervention. There's a history of high blood pressure - my mother died of a stroke at a young age - so that bothers me. I could easily sit at this weight without too much effort, but I can't see it getting better. My body is so very comfortable around my current weight that I am pretty pessimistic about moving much further downwards however much I KOKO.

Really sorry, epic post, tl:dr

Don't write yourself off so easily Dailyhandtowelwash. It's unlikely that you've damaged your metabolism so much that you can't reach a normal BMI. That said, there are links between improved health/longevity for post-menopausal women that are at the top of or slightly above the normal BMI range so your GP may be perfectly correct that your current weight is 'fine.' I suggest looking into other ways of improving your health than weight loss alone. Intermittent fasting improves insulin sensitivity. Exercise will reduce your risk of cardiovascular disease. Prioritising rest and relaxation lowers stress. Building relationships with family and friends is beneficial. You could look into whether any vitamin and mineral supplements might be useful to you. I recently started taking a few things such as zinc and vitamin B6 to help deal with peri-menopause symptoms. Almost everybody should probably be taking a good quality vitamin D3 if they can't get enough vitamin D from sunlight and dietary sources. There are lots for ways to boost your health and get those blood test levels back down again.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal I'm with you on the upper body strength. I can walk for miles as long as it's not uphill but cannot manage a single press up, I don't think I've done one in my life ever, and I am proud to say I can plank for a maximum of 38 seconds

I've got 2 SILs who have used lockdown as a way to get really fit - they both have a personal trainer and have washboard flat stomachs and small but defined muscles in their arms. Plus they (and my dh) have long lean slender body types - none of them have every been fat. Whereas I was the plump, rounded, one at family events (less so in the last few years). So toward the end of last year I got one of the trainers in the gym to show me how the equipment worked. I barely managed to move anything with even the lightest of weights! Then the gym closed for another lockdown...

I'm getting my vaccination today.

B - coffee with cream
L - spinach soup, chicken salad (with mayonnaise, olive oil)
D - vegetable and cheese omelette

Yay for vaccination @venusandmars!

@Dailyhandtowelwash I am going through a late menopause. Last year my bmi was 27/28 and my blood pressure was too high. Two boot camps later (plus 6lbs on over Christmas) and my bmi is 25.5. The loss is very slow but steady. My blood pressure is now normal. I have also started HRT . There are lots of stories about weight gain with HRT but I haven’t found that. As I have got older a small amount of weight really seems to have an effect on my tests etc. The challenge for me now is to koko when I am able to socialise. Once the wine starts .......